A good example of why southern conservatives are not trusted.

Taichiliberal said:
Good point.
While I think the "above others" stuff is supposition and conjecture on your part....we're no longer in high school and he's on the public forum, so he should know better than to call someone 'retarded' just because they disagree with him. Yeah, people say things out of frustration and anger....when all is said and done, it's just another 'got'cha' point for the opposition.
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I do not. I think it is a pervasive and repeated theme in this administration.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
????....and by making sure the poor student has absolutely no chance of getting into ANY private school, you are demonstrating your care for whom?.....
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When have I ever said I want to make sure poor students have no chance of getting into a private school?

As usual, when discussing something with a Rightie, I constantly have to stop and point out the ridiculous lies you guys love to pass off as truth...

I have said over and over and over in this thread that if the poorer children can choose which schools they will attend first, then I'm all for vouchers.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Good point.
While I think the "above others" stuff is supposition and conjecture on your part....we're no longer in high school and he's on the public forum, so he should know better than to call someone 'retarded' just because they disagree with him. Yeah, people say things out of frustration and anger....when all is said and done, it's just another 'got'cha' point for the opposition
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.

Damocles said:
I do not. I think it is a pervasive and repeated theme in this administration.
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Yeah, you have in some fashion at some point or another during your adult life...unless you're a Vulcan. But this isn't about you. And please, spare me the GOP pundit mantras, as they are not really worth discussing. Like I said, this is just another "got'cha"....and I'm sure the Dems will respond in kind at some point in the near future.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Just as I thought. You were just spouting the standard RightWing talking point that you want vouchers to help the poorest get a decent education.

You keep squawking that the point is "choice"...except you don't want to allow the poor and those attending the worst public schools to choose FIRST.

"But that's unfair" you whine...

Let's say there are two students. One from a well to do family and one from a poor family. Both would like to use a voucher to pay for attendance, but the parents of one of the students can offer moderate financial support to the booster club and the parents of the other child can't. Which student do YOU think the school will select for enrollment?

Nope...you don't REALLY care about getting the poor out of under-performing schools, all you care about is Y-O-U.
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You stupid fuckwit, I never claimed anything other than wanting vouchers in order to give parents choice. You keep insisting that certain classes of kids would be denied. You have no proof of this. In fact the one place that I know of where vouchers were specifically allowed for a specific class is DC, where they are ONLY for poor kids. I have been involved with the laws concerning educational choices for a decade, and in our brief discussion here I know one thing for certain...on this subject you are totally ignorant!
 
Taichiliberal said:
.




Yeah, you have in some fashion at some point or another during your adult life...unless you're a Vulcan. But this isn't about you. And please, spare me the GOP pundit mantras, as they are not really worth discussing. Like I said, this is just another "got'cha"....and I'm sure the Dems will respond in kind at some point in the near future.
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*sigh*

When I said "I do not" it was to say "I do not agree with what you think" not a claim that I do not on occasion say something childish and stupid.

This is a pattern with this administration as a group. Personally I would not surround myself with people who think like this.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
????....and by making sure the poor student has absolutely no chance of getting into ANY private school, you are demonstrating your care for whom?.....
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Oh yea undermining the public education system is an excellent way of improving education for the poor. Great idea (NOT). Zappa's right. ID just want's the gubment to subsidize private education for her kids cause she's to damned cheap to pay for it her self.

A lot of this argument is a bullshit argument anyways. It's mostly made by people who want us taxpayers to subsidize their kids education at a private, religious based, parochial schools and in most of those cases the local public schools are equal to or superior to the private religeous ones anyway. So this is just a great big bait n switch bull shit argument.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090226093423.htm

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1670063,00.html

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pdf/studies/2006461.pdf

http://www.capenet.org/facts.htmlhttp://www.epi.org/publications/entry/book_vouchers/

And there's lots more of these sources and they all show about the same thing. The vast majority of private schools are religious schools. The religious school students test slightly higher in verbal skills but public schools student score significantly higher in math and science skills, almost all the other test score categories are equivalent but across the board, in general, public schools out perfrom private schools mainly because public school teachers are certified. So the school choice argument is a bogus one.

You have all the school choice you want. If you want to send you kids to a private religious school pay for it your self ya cheap bastards!
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090226093423.htm

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1670063,00.html

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pdf/studies/2006461.pdf

http://www.capenet.org/facts.htmlhttp://www.epi.org/publications/entry/book_vouchers/
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well, what do you know....if a parent doesn't like the quality of the education his child is receiving with his vouchers, he can choose to go somewhere else....meanwhile if the quality of education he is getting is BELOW the national average at the local public school, he's fucked....

You have all the school choice you want. If you want to send you kids to a private religious school pay for it your self ya cheap bastards!
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actually, I did....and my kids are in their 20s, so this isn't going to save me a nickel....I just want to make sure the only kids who get a fucked up private education from here on out, are yours.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
well, what do you know....if a parent doesn't like the quality of the education his child is receiving with his vouchers, he can choose to go somewhere else....meanwhile if the quality of education he is getting is BELOW the national average at the local public school, he's fucked....



actually, I did....and my kids are in their 20s, so this isn't going to save me a nickel....I just want to make sure the only kids who get a fucked up private education from here on out, are yours.....
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That's a bull shit argument too. If you don't like the quality of education in your school then vote out the local board and put in one that reflects your values on education, that is, unless your some nutjob who wants to undermine eveyone elses education for your own (or your childrens) selfish advantage.

The problem with your argument is that your kids are more likely to get a substandard education, particularly in the two most important fields, science and math, if you send them to a privates school. You're a hypocrit and your holding public schools a double standard that you won't apply to the Private schools.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's a bull shit argument too. If you don't like the quality of education in your school then vote out the local board and put in one that reflects your values on education, that is, unless your some nutjob who wants to undermine eveyone elses education for your own (or your childrens) selfish advantage.

The problem with your argument is that your kids are more likely to get a substandard education, particularly in the two most important fields, science and math, if you send them to a privates school. You're a hypocrit and your holding public schools a double standard that you won't apply to the Private schools.
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my kids got a superior education thank you very much.....and I held the private school they went to, to a very high standard.....or they wouldn't have went there.....and that is the same standard I would expect any other parent to hold a private school or a public school to....if they are not satisfied with the education their child is getting, they should be able to get an education some where else.....how that makes me a hypocrite is beyond my comprehension.....

now, as far as undermining other peoples education is concerned, let's be clear on a few things.....I have done nothing to undermine the Detroit school system....I have done nothing to undermine the Washington DC school system.....they have managed to achieve status as the worst and most expensive schools in the country without any help from me.....giving students in Detroit and Washington DC a voucher isn't going to help me in any way that I am aware of, unless it's the satisfaction of knowing that kids are getting a better education for less money.....if that makes me a "nutjob" in your eyes, there should be more of us and less of you.....

I guess if voting for school boards was an adequate solution, we wouldn't be having this discussion.....because that's the way it's been for the last fifty years or more.....
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
my kids got a superior education thank you very much.....and I held the private school they went to, to a very high standard.....or they wouldn't have went there.....and that is the same standard I would expect any other parent to hold a private school or a public school to....if they are not satisfied with the education their child is getting, they should be able to get an education some where else.....how that makes me a hypocrite is beyond my comprehension.....

now, as far as undermining other peoples education is concerned, let's be clear on a few things.....I have done nothing to undermine the Detroit school system....I have done nothing to undermine the Washington DC school system.....they have managed to achieve status as the worst and most expensive schools in the country without any help from me.....giving students in Detroit and Washington DC a voucher isn't going to help me in any way that I am aware of, unless it's the satisfaction of knowing that kids are getting a better education for less money.....if that makes me a "nutjob" in your eyes, there should be more of us and less of you.....

I guess if voting for school boards was an adequate solution, we wouldn't be having this discussion.....because that's the way it's been for the last fifty years or more.....
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and you're saying that on what? Your opinion? Show me the test scores of that school.

Who you trying to bullshit. I went to high school in Iowa and the public schools there are some of the best schools in the nation, even the rural ones, and for the most part they blow away the parochial private schools in the state, unless your idea of a superior education is being able to spew religious dogma from rote memory. So try laying that line of crap on someone else cause I"ve been there, done that.

And thank your for the mia kulpa on Detroit. You're right, you don't live in Detroit so you don't have a damned thing to say about their public schools. I can also show you some unacredited private schools of an evengelical nature who are just plain lousy (not to mention more than double the cost of a public school education). Their one step above a Madrasa and they have a fraction of the qualified/certified teachers that public schools have. I mean what makes you a nutjob here is your sticking your head in the sand. The data clearly shows that Charter schools perform well below national standards. The facts are the children their are not receiving superior educations at them and what makes you a nut job is your complete denial of the long list of data and peer reviewed reports that prove that fact. You're just sticking your head in the sand and denying reality.

You're trying to Cherry pick an economically depressed public school system and trying to cherry pick a comparison to St. Andrews Ivy league prep school. It don't work that way pal. You got to include those private schools like our local Nazarene school who's graduates can't even do basic math and who's basic science curriculum includes psuedosciences, such as flood geology and creationism.

The links I posted were just a few of the very many studies that are many and in depth and peer reviewed and on and on and the data is clear and conclusive. Private schools do not out perform our public schools. Not across the board they don't and the facts are the opposite.

Across the board, in this nation, the public schools perform equal to or superior then parochial schools (which about 50% are private Catholic schools). When you subtract the Catholic parochial schools from the test data it shows that public schools are shockingly superior to most protestant parochial schools (about 40% of all the private schools).

A parent would have to be an idiot or a religious fanatic to handicap their child with an education from one of those private schools and you want me to undermine our local public school systems in order to subisidize parents who want to raise mouth breathers? Give me a fucking break. Not gonna happen in my community. Thank God! Cause here in Dublin, we support our local schools. We don't undermine them like you do.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
and you're saying that on what? Your opinion? Show me the test scores of that school.
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why?....are you going to move here and send your kids there?.....you should be concerned with the test scores of your local schools.....if you are fortunate enough to live near a good one, great.....give your voucher to your local public school and everything is good......but if you are a parent who lives in a school district where the school sucks why should you have to suck it up and live with it?

And thank your for the mia kulpa on Detroit. You're right, you don't live in Detroit so you don't have a damned thing to say about their public schools. I can also show you some unacredited private schools of an evengelical nature who are just plain lousy (not to mention more than double the cost of a public school education).
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first of all, far be it from me to criticize the education you received from the Iowa public schools, but it's mea culpa and since mea culpa means "my fault" it would hardly be the appropriate phrase in that sentence....
secondly, so what?....nobody is going to make that parent send their kid there.....this is about giving people choices.....as I recall, liberals like to be considered pro-choice....

Their one step above a Madrasa and they have a fraction of the qualified/certified teachers that public schools have.
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the private school that my children attended had all state certified teachers....

across the board test scores are meaningless in this argument....if the particular school that you are considering sending your kids to does not perform to your satisfaction, send them to a school that does......oh, wait....unless your state doesn't have a voucher system.....then you can "choose" to send them to the closest school whether it sucks or not.....

You're trying to Cherry pick an economically depressed public school system and trying to cherry pick a comparison to St. Andrews Ivy league prep school. It don't work that way pal. You got to include those private schools like our local Nazarene school who's graduates can't even do basic math and who's basic science curriculum includes psuedosciences, such as flood geology and creationism.
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there is your mistake.....the voucher system is designed to thrive on cherry picking....the parents get to pick a cherry school to send their kids to instead of being stuck with the pits....


Across the board, in this nation, the public schools perform equal to or superior then parochial schools (which about 50% are private Catholic schools). When you subtract the Catholic parochial schools from the test data it shows that public schools are shockingly superior to most protestant parochial schools (about 40% of all the private schools).

A parent would have to be an idiot or a religious fanatic to handicap their child with an education from one of those private schools and you want me to undermine our local public school systems in order to subisidize parents who want to raise mouth breathers? Give me a fucking break. Not gonna happen in my community. Thank God! Cause here in Dublin, we support our local schools. We don't undermine them like you do.
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I think it's sad that just because you live near a good public school you don't give a fuck about people who don't......
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Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
.




Yeah, you have in some fashion at some point or another during your adult life...unless you're a Vulcan. But this isn't about you. And please, spare me the GOP pundit mantras, as they are not really worth discussing. Like I said, this is just another "got'cha"....and I'm sure the Dems will respond in kind at some point in the near future.
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Damocles said:
*sigh*

When I said "I do not" it was to say "I do not agree with what you think" not a claim that I do not on occasion say something childish and stupid.

This is a pattern with this administration as a group. Personally I would not surround myself with people who think like this.
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Hey, I only know what you type....so the explanation you now give is most helpful.

To be fair, the amount of gaffs by this administration are small in number compared to the gaffs, blunders and outright lies by the Shrub & company. But I think it's a slight exaggeration to say it's a "pattern".

But like I said, it's a "got'cha", and I'm sure the Dems will childishly respond to the next GOP "got'cha". And the Beat goes on.
 
The conservatard bitches who post here are ugly as hell, wrinkled saggy old bags. No wonder the rigtwingtard men are all closet homos.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
????....and by making sure the poor student has absolutely no chance of getting into ANY private school, you are demonstrating your care for whom?.....
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ZappasGuitar said:
When have I ever said I want to make sure poor students have no chance of getting into a private school?

As usual, when discussing something with a Rightie, I constantly have to stop and point out the ridiculous lies you guys love to pass off as truth...

I have said over and over and over in this thread that if the poorer children can choose which schools they will attend first, then I'm all for vouchers.
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Where'd the bigtime master debater run off to??

Care to apologize for that outright lie you told?

I won't be holding me breath waiting for one...
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Where'd the bigtime master debater run off to??

Care to apologize for that outright lie you told?

I won't be holding me breath waiting for one...
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good, because hell would freeze over before I apologized to a liberal and I would hate to see you die of asphyxiation before hell froze over......since vouchers would always be available for poor children, why should clarification have been necessary in the first place.....basically, you are admitting I was right and you were an idiot for objecting to vouchers....
 
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