A Theology Question

Mason Michaels said:
"Insult to Jesus"??? Who does Pagans say Jesus is?
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I wasn't talking about pagans insulting Jesus. I was talking about liars and propagandists and haters performing their sins publicly here every day, while claiming to be followers of Jesus. THAT is how they insult Him.

Most pagans were brought up as Xtians. We're all different. Some of us believe there was no such person. Others believe that He was a holy man of sorts, but not a son of the Biblical god. A few are angry about the whole Xtian thing and reject all of it.

There's a tip here in this post for Xtians who wish to follow the imperative to proselytize others and "bring them to Jesus." Act like Him in your dealings with others. Stop being condemning and judgmental. Show others the love that you believe Jesus shows you.

Apparently this is way harder than calling people names and pretending you have the power to send them to Hell. (you plural, not you personally).
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Doubt if it matters. Reciting a creed from rote memory doesn't mean that the reciter truly understands and believes it. For a lot of people it's just what you say in church.
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Which is exactly what Perry is doing. He's regressing to his childhood upbringing and projecting that upbringing onto others. This is seen by the fact he's very emotional about it and taunts like a rebellious teenager....with the same level of logic.
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Once again, pay attention to your teacher when I am giving you a lesson

They do form small groups during mating season so write this down because it will be on the test
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They do not, but you go with that, "teacher." Have you met the other one here who pretends to also be an educator? You two should really get together. :laugh:

Here, go ask someone to read and explain this to you:

These rodents are solitary and diurnal animals. Periods of increased activity are mid-morning and mid-afternoon. Eastern chipmunks are highly territorial, particularly defending areas around their burrows.
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Last year we had so many chipmunks that we transplanted over a dozen. This year there appears to be maybe half a dozen. They chase and fight constantly. Even when we set out a pile of sunflower seeds, they chase and fight. They do not live in groups.

There, your trolling derailed the religion thread! Are you happy now, Stinker? lol
 
Doc Dutch said:
Which is exactly what Perry is doing. He's regressing to his childhood upbringing and projecting that upbringing onto others. This is seen by the fact he's very emotional about it and taunts like a rebellious teenager....with the same level of logic.
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You could have substituted "Perry" for "Tinker" and been discussing the same person. lol

PS -- I think she loves you. :laugh:
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Doubt if it matters. Reciting a creed from rote memory doesn't mean that the reciter truly understands and believes it. For a lot of people it's just what you say in church.
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I will agree given that I spent years reciting it without any real understanding. But Cypress is an extremely well read person apparently. He seems to know a lot about many religions so I'm sure he must know about the Council of Nicaea and the heresy of Arius as well as the various other dualistic heresies that rolled through the church. Not to mention the Johannine Comma.
 
Cypress said:
People are free to believe sophisticated human visions of ethical perfection are no different than the ethics of cow herds or chipmunk colonies.

But I don't have to give them credibility or credence either
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So we aren't allowed to argue from a biological stand point and we aren't allowed to argue based on Christian theology that is held by millions upon millions of Christians across the world for over 1.7 millennia?

I'm fascinated that you put so many limits on everyone else's point.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
You could have substituted "Perry" for "Tinker" and been discussing the same person. lol

PS -- I think she loves you. :laugh:
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LOL. I disagree on all points.

Perry clearly has a chip on his shoulder. I'm still not convinced he is what he purports to be, specifically a PhD, due to a lack of maturity on his part. He tries to be secular and is a militant atheist, but a lot of that strikes me as a teenager rebelling against his overzealous Evangelista parents.

Tink was also raised Christian. She sincerely believes, even though I disagree on some of her beliefs, especially as they relate to both US and international politics.
 
Quincunx said:
Cypress said:
People are free to believe...
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So we aren't allowed to argue from a biological stand point and we aren't allowed to argue based on Christian theology that is held by millions upon millions of Christians across the world for over 1.7 millennia?

I'm fascinated that you put so many limits on everyone else's point.
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People who use "we" know their own argument is weak and, in your case, emotionally based. What part of "People are free" do you not understand? Or are you intentionally lying about it, Perry PhD?

Cypress is not doing that. You are guilty of both projecting and gaslighting....not the first time either.

My suggestion to Cypress is to ignore you as a trollish idiot.
 
Quincunx said:
You are free to deny standard Christian theology. I thought you made an effort to understand the theology.
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The noted bible thumper PMP tried the same type of logic on me -- that the Epistles in the NT were the word of Jesus because they were inspired by him.

That is a Christian belief. The only place it is universally agreed the purported words and sayings of Jesus are recorded are the four gospels.

To the best of my knowledge, there is nowhere in the New Testament outside of one of the 27 NT books where Jesus himself claims to be God incarnate - Gospel of John. In the Epistles and Pastoral letters of the NY, neither Jesus nor God the father directly speak or act.

Jesus does not claim to be God incarnate in any of the three Synoptic Gospels. I was reading Luke yesterday, and Peter calls Jesus the Christ (messiah) of God, and Jesus calls himself the Son of Man.
.
In the Jewish tradition of antiquity the Messiah and the Son of Man were powerful humans, who were imbued with divine agency, but they were not God himself.
 
Cypress said:
The noted bible thumper PMP tried the same type of logic on me -- that the Epistles in the NT were the word of Jesus because they were inspired by him.

That is a Christian belief. The only place it is universally agreed the purported words and sayings of Jesus are recorded are the four gospels.

To the best of my knowledge, there is nowhere in the New Testament outside of one of the 27 NT books where Jesus himself claims to be God incarnate - Gospel of John. In the Epistles and Pastoral letters of the NY, neither Jesus nor God the father directly speak or act.

Jesus does not claim to be God incarnate in any of the three Synoptic Gospels. I was reading Luke yesterday, and Peter calls Jesus the Christ (messiah) of God, and Jesus calls himself the Son of Man.
.
In the Jewish tradition of antiquity the Messiah and the Son of Man were powerful humans, who were imbued with divine agency, but they were not God himself.
Click to expand...
Pmp is not a Christian as proved by his numerous posts that are contrary to Christian beliefs.

6pm7gh.jpg
 
Cypress said:
The noted bible thumper PMP tried the same type of logic on me -- that the Epistles in the NT were the word of Jesus because they were inspired by him.

That is a Christian belief. The only place it is universally agreed the purported words and sayings of Jesus are recorded are the four gospels.

To the best of my knowledge, there is nowhere in the New Testament outside of one of the 27 NT books where Jesus himself claims to be God incarnate - Gospel of John. In the Epistles and Pastoral letters of the NY, neither Jesus nor God the father directly speak or act.

Jesus does not claim to be God incarnate in any of the three Synoptic Gospels. I was reading Luke yesterday, and Peter calls Jesus the Christ (messiah) of God, and Jesus calls himself the Son of Man.
.
In the Jewish tradition of antiquity the Messiah and the Son of Man were powerful humans, who were imbued with divine agency, but they were not God himself.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying but I am merely pointing out that millions upon millions of Christians adhere to the Nicene Creed which is central to a vast swath of Christians, regardless of your opinion.

Another poster noted that you come from an Eastern Orthodox background (?) which may explain why you are out of touch with what Protestants and Catholics across the globe for the last 1,700 years have believed and is a central point of the religion.

You often note how you have read the Bhagavad Gita and other religious text from across the world. So it is genuinely curious why you seem unfamiliar with the religion we are talking about now.

Yes, Jesus didn't reference the Homoousion but, indeed the Johannine Comma and even the beginning of the Gospel of John seem to make it clear why many (if not most) Christians adhere to the Creed.

Indeed for the majority of Christians Jesus IS God. To think otherwise is, technically speaking, heresy.
 
Quincunx said:
So we aren't allowed to argue from a biological stand point and we aren't allowed to argue based on Christian theology that is held by millions upon millions of Christians across the world for over 1.7 millennia?

I'm fascinated that you put so many limits on everyone else's point.
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Cypress seems petrified that Jesus is exactly who he says he is! Cypress ego can't handle that!
 
Cypress said:
The noted bible thumper PMP tried the same type of logic on me -- that the Epistles in the NT were the word of Jesus because they were inspired by him.

That is a Christian belief. The only place it is universally agreed the purported words and sayings of Jesus are recorded are the four gospels.

To the best of my knowledge, there is nowhere in the New Testament outside of one of the 27 NT books where Jesus himself claims to be God incarnate - Gospel of John. In the Epistles and Pastoral letters of the NY, neither Jesus nor God the father directly speak or act.

Jesus does not claim to be God incarnate in any of the three Synoptic Gospels. I was reading Luke yesterday, and Peter calls Jesus the Christ (messiah) of God, and Jesus calls himself the Son of Man.
.
In the Jewish tradition of antiquity the Messiah and the Son of Man were powerful humans, who were imbued with divine agency, but they were not God himself.
Click to expand...

"Before Abraham I AM"!
That's crystal clear that Jesus said he was YHWH!
 
Cypress said:
The noted bible thumper PMP tried the same type of logic on me -- that the Epistles in the NT were the word of Jesus because they were inspired by him.

That is a Christian belief. The only place it is universally agreed the purported words and sayings of Jesus are recorded are the four gospels.

To the best of my knowledge, there is nowhere in the New Testament outside of one of the 27 NT books where Jesus himself claims to be God incarnate - Gospel of John. In the Epistles and Pastoral letters of the NY, neither Jesus nor God the father directly speak or act.

Jesus does not claim to be God incarnate in any of the three Synoptic Gospels. I was reading Luke yesterday, and Peter calls Jesus the Christ (messiah) of God, and Jesus calls himself the Son of Man.
.
In the Jewish tradition of antiquity the Messiah and the Son of Man were powerful humans, who were imbued with divine agency, but they were not God himself.
Click to expand...

You're wrong, Jesus is exactly who he said he was!
Quoting nonbelievers doesn't change that fact!
 
Quincunx said:
I understand what you are saying but I am merely pointing out that millions upon millions of Christians adhere to the Nicene Creed which is central to a vast swath of Christians, regardless of your opinion.

Another poster noted that you come from an Eastern Orthodox background (?) which may explain why you are out of touch with what Protestants and Catholics across the globe for the last 1,700 years have believed and is a central point of the religion.

You often note how you have read the Bhagavad Gita and other religious text from across the world. So it is genuinely curious why you seem unfamiliar with the religion we are talking about now.

Yes, Jesus didn't reference the Homoousion but, indeed the Johannine Comma and even the beginning of the Gospel of John seem to make it clear why many (if not most) Christians adhere to the Creed.

Indeed for the majority of Christians Jesus IS God. To think otherwise is, technically speaking, heresy.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand what the Trinity is,: and that the doctrine of the trinity arose centuries after the authors of the 27 books of the New Testament died.

A detached reading of the NT as a literary source indicates that God the Father is generally not directly involved and does not speak or directly act in the 27 books of the New Testament, outside of John, arguably
 
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