A Theology Question

The OP question seems to be solely for folks who believe in the God of the Bible (either Jewish or Christian bible) or the Koran. It doesn't seem to fit very well for a pantheist, for instance. It certainly cannot even be answered by a person with my belief system. If there is a god or gods that created this universe, I don't think their motivation was your personal happiness. I don't think they think much more of you than you do of the microbes in squirrel intestines.

Anyway, if the Great Green Arkleseizure sneezed out the Universe, why are you not afraid of the Great Handkerchief?
 
Damocles said:
The OP question seems to be solely for folks who believe in the God of the Bible (either Jewish or Christian bible) or the Koran. It doesn't seem to fit very well for a pantheist, for instance. It certainly cannot even be answered by a person with my belief system. If there is a god or gods that created this universe, I don't think their motivation was your personal happiness. I don't think they think much more of you than you do of the microbes in squirrel intestines.

Anyway, if the Great Green Arkleseizure sneezed out the Universe, why are you not afraid of the Great Handkerchief?
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Agreed. A point that came up elsewhere on why American atheists were always slamming Christianity and rarely Judaism, Islam or other religions.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Agreed. A point that came up elsewhere on why American atheists were always slamming Christianity and rarely Judaism, Islam or other religions.
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I think rightwing atheists hate Islam and Judaism maybe even more than Christian faith.

Everyone has an agenda of sorts. Some people are just irreligious and couldn't care less about any religious traditions. Others as kids got dragged to a fire and brimstone fundy church and still carry the trauma and grievance of the experience with them.

I think the ignorance that is bred in fundamentalist Christianity, conservative Islam, militant Zionism, and Hindu nationalism are a clear and present danger. That's my agenda.

On the other hand, the Bhagavad-Gita speaks of reasoning to what is beyond reason: reason should grasp it's own limits, and pursue higher truths through imagination, intuition, or devotion. That seems like a perfectly sensible vision of human knowledge and human limitations. That's also my agenda.
 
Cypress said:
I think rightwing atheists hate Islam and Judaism maybe even more than Christian faith.

Everyone has an agenda of sorts. Some people are just irreligious and couldn't care less about any religious traditions. Others as kids got dragged to a fire and brimstone fundy church and still carry the trauma and grievance of the experience with them.

I think the ignorance that is bred in fundamentalist Christianity, conservative Islam, militant Zionism, and Hindu nationalism are a clear and present danger. That's my agenda.

On the other hand, the Bhagavad-Gita speaks of reasoning to what is beyond reason: reason should grasp it's own limits, and pursue higher truths through imagination, intuition, or devotion. That seems like a perfectly sensible vision of human knowledge and human limitations. That's also my agenda.
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No doubt, but RW atheists are rare. Most wear the mask of Christianity even through they never act like Christians.
 
Cypress said:
Too right you are.

On another tangent, two questions I have are

Is what we think is true is actually true? Highly educated and scientifically literate people only about a hundred years ago were totally convinced that time and space were absolute and uniform, and that the universe was static, unchanging, and infinitely old.

And are our primate brains advanced enough to correctly percieve and interpret all true knowledge? You can try until the cows come home, but you will never be able to teach the quadratic formula to a German shepherd.
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I suspect that there are many elements of the universe that are unknown, because we haven't detected them so far. It seems like a lot of our discoveries -- like the microwave radiation background -- were made totally by accident while studying or inventing something else. So maybe it's not necessary for us to be able to conceive of something we can't detect yet.
 
Cypress said:
^^ aka, Donald Trumpf
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Trump is the classic leader who uses religion as a tool to manipulate the masses. Lots of atheists love to whine about the evils of religion but they fail to point out that it’s not the religion per se, but the leadership of the time. Usually a monarchy. In Pedo Don’s case, a wannabe king.
 
Cypress said:
Too right you are.

On another tangent, two questions I have are

Is what we think is true is actually true? Highly educated and scientifically literate people only about a hundred years ago were totally convinced that time and space were absolute and uniform, and that the universe was static, unchanging, and infinitely old.

And are our primate brains advanced enough to correctly percieve and interpret all true knowledge? You can try until the cows come home, but you will never be able to teach the quadratic formula to a German shepherd.
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Hence the wisdom of Reagan’s words, “Trust but verify”. LOL

The Scientific Method is to produce verifiable and replicable results. Remember the Cold Fusion fiasco? Most of that was media hype but the science community had to look into it to verify that it was false.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I suspect that there are many elements of the universe that are unknown, because we haven't detected them so far. It seems like a lot of our discoveries -- like the microwave radiation background -- were made totally by accident while studying or inventing something else. So maybe it's not necessary for us to be able to conceive of something we can't detect yet.
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I think you're right that anything that is potentially observable or detectable by sensory perception or instrumentation is discoverable at some point in the future. But it's the questions about reality that don't involve observation and measurement that I think are beyond the reach of the scientific method.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Hence the wisdom of Reagan’s words, “Trust but verify”. LOL

The Scientific Method is to produce verifiable and replicable results. Remember the Cold Fusion fiasco? Most of that was media hype but the science community had to look into it to verify that it was false.
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The sad thing about that one episode is it caused most funding for nuclear fusion research to dry up. Those two idiots from Utah did immeasurable damage to the advancement of nuclear fusion research
 
Cypress said:
The sad thing about that one episode is it caused most funding for nuclear fusion research to dry up. Those two idiots from Utah did immeasurable damage to the advancement of nuclear fusion research
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They are only partly responsible since it was the reaction of others that caused most of the problems.

Again, like global warming, it was a combination of media and political hype that caused things to go askew.
 
Doc Dutch said:
They are only partly responsible since it was the reaction of others that caused most of the problems.

Again, like global warming, it was a combination of media and political hype that caused things to go askew.
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Yeah, I don't think those guys were criminals or arch villains. They were victims of their own confirmation bias, but the whole episode gave people a bad taste about funding nuclear fusion research
 
Cypress said:
Yeah, I don't think those guys were criminals or arch villains. They were victims of their own confirmation bias, but the whole episode gave people a bad taste about funding nuclear fusion research
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True. Still, the work goes forward. The state of American politics and business is such that it may be the Chinese who develop fusion first.
 
Doc Dutch said:
You seem angry. Not a little bit irrational. Do you consider yourself to lean more to the feminem side or the masculine side? It can be fluid in some people and within the normal human range.

Especially with those under 40. Those over 40 need to try something different.
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And this is how it starts. This is literally the blueprint you use for every single other poster who even mildly disagrees with a point you make.

This does seem to be your obsession/issue.

Why can't we get back to the fun discussions?
 
Doc Dutch said:
True. Still, the work goes forward. The state of American politics and business is such that it may be the Chinese who develop fusion first.
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The ancient life on Mars guys from the 1990s was the most significant fiasco I can recall, but to this day those guys still claim they found microbes in the Martian rock, and the jury has never been fully settled
 
Doc Dutch said:
You are confusing mankind’s perception of God with whatever force actually created the Universe.

If God wanted everyone to be happy, then why are we here?
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We are here because the physical world contained the possibility of our existence developing
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Well, we're limited by our physical abilities. We've been clever in crafting instruments that extend our senses hugely. But who's to say that there aren't more "things" (like on the electromagnetic spectrum, maybe) that we can't even conceive of -- yet?
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This is a key point. No one claims "There is nothing out there to discover that we haven't discovered yet", however, the fact that we choose to NOT BELIEVE that some particular item ("X") exists out there simply because we have zero evidence for it does not amount to a BELIEF that "X" does not exist.

That may sound a bit clunky but it is at the heart of this discussion.

It is NOT a "belief" (as some on here claim) that Thormalgazine does NOT exist (a thing I just made up and has no evidence for it). No one is "agnostic" about Thormalgazine. In fact no one believes Thormalgazine exists simply because I said the word.

Some on here feel that it is an active belief to fail to believe in something like God.

I understand their position that it is truly "I don't know", but that isn't how we treat it in our daily lives. Every single day we operate under simple rules "There is no elephant that lives in my shed out back", "there is no invisible wall that runs across the interstate".

All these things MIGHT be true but no one thinks it is an active BELIEF to NOT BELIEVE they exist.
 
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