please explain how a bullet got stuck in a barrel ? it makes no sense .
Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Killed Halyna Hutchins, Injured Director
- Thread starter ziggy
- Start date
please explain how a bullet got stuck in a barrel ? it makes no sense .
The first take was with a blank round. That is a round that has a real bullet, but no powder. It was also supposed to have no primer, but the props people left the primer on it. The primer pushed the bullet into the barrel. The props people were supposed to check the barrel for the bullet, but again failed to do this. Then a dummy bullet was put in the gun for the next take. That is the powder without the bullet. When it went off, it propelled the bullet from the blank round into Lee.
There are a dozen safety procedures to make sure that this never happens, most were intentionally ignored by the props people. On one level it was an accident, but on another level it was an accident caused by not caring about basic safety.
negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter.
A blank round is dangerous, especially one loaded with powder.
Walt, you don't have any experience, or knowledge of the pressures that exit a barrel, even a round firing just a primer. How did a bullet get in the barrel in the first place?
It is ALWAYS the person's responsibility handling the gun to make sure it is safe. There is NO other "situation," period. That is one of the things I stressed most when I taught firearms training.
Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
Walt doesn't know a lot of shit.
I have explained that to you twice already. You are intentionally ignoring the explanation at this point.
You are certainly making a strong argument for the props people going to prison. They legally certified it as completely safe. It would have been safe at that distance, and without the bullet.
That was the original intent of the bill, but if that were done, movies would be impossible to film. So a single carve out was made for films, and other such productions.
There are many gun safety rules that must be broken to film a movie, which is why so many gun safety rules are added to the filming of a movie.
There are many things I do not know, but I am very good at knowing what I do not know. You and RB think you are experts on everything, but really know very little.
Yes, you are correct Cinnabar. Negligent homicide is another crime involving an "accident." I think negligent homicide is more heavily an accident where there was not care, and involuntary manslaughter is more another criminal act that accidentally caused a death. I might have them reversed.
Im not familar with movie prop procedure but why would any idiot put a real bullet in a prop gun.they should not be capable of firing .
Walt, I was a firearms instructor for over 20 years. I shot wax bullets for practice in my parent's basement for years, propelled with just the primer, in my younger days. I haven't purchased a box of cartridges in longer than I can remember (other than .22s). I reload for everything I shoot, so understanding pressures is very important so I don't blow up my firearms. Expert? Sure, there are those more knowledgeable than me, but I sure as hell know far more about firearms and reloading for them than you. And yes, blanks can be dangerous.
It was done for a closeup of the bullet. The director wanted to do a closeup of a real bullet in the revolver. It was supposed to be a real bullet, without any powder or primer to propel it forward, and so safe to point at the camera.
Prop guns are often completely capable of firing. This prop gun in particular was a completely real gun, along with being a prop. With a real bullet and powder in it, it would kill like any other gun. The intention while filming was not to have both in the gun at the same time.
I have never worked in film making, but I have many friends who have. This is all common stuff, done often. In Lee's case, the props people just got really careless. It is too early to tell what happened in the Baldwin case, but given common responsibility, it would be the props people's fault.
Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
Physician heal thyself.
Which is why props people have to work so hard to make sure they are not dangerous. In Lee's case, they did not do their work, and Lee died.
There are a large number of jobs in filmmaking like that. Stunts people do stunts that should be dangerous, but if done right are not dangerous. The point is to make it look like an incredibly dangerous situation, but it not be one.
Actors take care of acting. Props people, special effects people, and stunt people take care of understanding pressures and other things. If they fail, then people die. If they do not try hard enough to succeed, they are guilty of a crime.
Which comes to question why anyone would put a bullet in a cartridge without powder and just a primer. Anyone with even a hint of firearms knowledge would know to never seat a bullet on just a primer. There is also the fact that under load of a bullet, there is a very distinct and different sound if a bullet is fired and propelled with just a primer, especially if it lodges in the barrel. That would surely raise red flags.
Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
There was no excuse for a bullet to even be on that set and you know it. Stop being a fucktard.
The prop people were supposed to remove both the powder and the primer. It was supposed to be a bullet with nothing to propel itself. That would be called a dummy bullet.
In this case, it was to show a closeup of Massee pointing a revolver with a bullet in it, and pulling the trigger. The next shot was to show Massee from further away shooting Lee. The next shot was not to be close up, and was to have no bullet, but having the powder exploding.
The primer was supposed to be removed. It was the primer that forced the bullet into the barrel in what is called a squib load.
But again, Massee, the actor, did not know any of this. He was doing actions that under any other situation would have been considered unsafe, but were necessary for shooting a movie. The props people were supposed to make sure that it was all safely done.
Yep. Most people would never notice a spent primer over a live one while watching a movie. Seat the bullet on a cartridge with a spent primer if "realism" is the object and all is good.
I do not even know where to begin. You are clearly just trying to waste my time with stupidity. Dummy rounds are on sets all the time. Real guns are on sets all the time. Even fully fireable bullets are on sets all the time.
What you are suggesting is that the prop people had access to reloading equipment. I find that doubtful. You need a press, primer removal die with pin to remove a primer.