Alexis de Tocqueville: Democracy and Christianity

Jack said:
I already mentioned Ancient Greece. And I already mentioned the Age of Enlightenment. Maybe I should have thrown in the Renaissance for good measure?

'Religions' are ALL dogmatic and never changing. Just the OPPOSITE of 'Free Thought'. 'Free Thought' and 'Religion' are like Oil and Water.
Who are the people opposed to 'liberal Democracy'? ... the Christian Fascists that you saw on Jan. 6, 2021.
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Incipient democratic traditions were emerging before the Enlightenment, so that does not explain it.

Nor does it explain why liberal democracy did not germinate in the traditional Confucian, Hindi, Islamic, or Buddhist civilisations - they had philosophers and intellectuals on a par with Voltaire and Montesquieu.

Alhough the political thinkers of the Enlightenment and Romantic Eras did play an outsized role in advancing the traditions of equality and individualism.

The social context in which individualism, a certain sense of equality, an embrace of civic engagement and mercantile capitalism germinated before the Enlightenment, during the Protestant Reformation.
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...ocracy-and-Christianity&p=4604035#post4604035

The Catholic Church is the institution which kept ancient Greek history and intellectual traditions alive. Greek thought was largely lost to western Europe in the Early Middle Ages, until it was resurrected by Catholic theologians and Catholic universities.
 
Jack said:
Cypress: "The Roman Catholic church did keep the ancient Greek intellectual traditions alive, so they may have had an indirect and unintentional role in transmitting Greek thought about democracy."
Jack: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
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You might consider avoiding threads which deal in history if you were unaware Greek intellectual tradition and Greek history were largely lost to western Europe until resurrected by Catholic theologians and Catholic universities.

If we owe Catholicism nothing else, we owe the monks who kept literacy alive and continued to maintain and collect the ancient Greek wisdom in their abbots as the rest of Europe went dark for 500 years.
 
Cypress said:
You might consider avoiding threads which deal in history if you were unaware Greek intellectual tradition and Greek history were largely lost to western Europe until resurrected by Catholic theologians and Catholic universities.

If we owe Catholicism nothing else, we owe the monks who continued keep literacy alive and to maintain and collect the ancient Greek wisdom in their abbots as the rest of Europe went dark for 500 years.
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You know nothing about history. You're kind of comical...but more pathetic.
 
Cypress said:
^ Not a rational argument or an intelligent retort.

More of a resentful emotional outburst.
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You're just a jerkoff. Honestly, if you want to ban me I would not care. You're just a major lying asshole.

Notice no one but Jack and myself respond and you keep bullshitting.
 
BidenPresident said:
You're just a jerkoff. Honestly, if you want to ban me I would not care. You're just a major lying asshole.

Notice no one but Jack and myself respond and you keep bullshitting.
Click to expand...

You only get irate and angry if I happen to bring up European history in its social context of Christianity.

You never get outaged if I talk about Asian historical context of Buddhism, Confucianism, or Hinduism.

Your psychological issues stemming from your parents dragging you to a fundamentalist church is not the topic of the thread.
 
Cypress said:
You might consider avoiding threads which deal in history if you were unaware Greek intellectual tradition and Greek history were largely lost to western Europe until resurrected by Catholic theologians and Catholic universities.

If we owe Catholicism nothing else, we owe the monks who kept literacy alive and continued to maintain and collect the ancient Greek wisdom in their abbots as the rest of Europe went dark for 500 years.
Click to expand...


News Flash: The Christians were the original Book Burners. We can thank the Arabs for our knowledge on the Ancient Greeks.

"How Christians Destroyed the Ancient World"
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/08/books/review/catherine-nixey-darkening-age.html
 
THE DARKENING AGE

THE DARKENING AGE
The Christian Destruction of the Classical World
By Catherine Nixey
Illustrated. 315 pp. Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. $28.

Vandalizing the Parthenon temple in Athens has been a tenacious tradition. Most famously, Lord Elgin appropriated the “Elgin marbles” in 1801-5. But that was hardly the first example. In the Byzantine era, when the temple had been turned into a church, two bishops — Marinos and Theodosios — carved their names on its monumental columns. The Ottomans used the Parthenon as a gunpowder magazine, hence its pockmarked masonry — the result of an attack by Venetian forces in the 17th century. Now Catherine Nixey, a classics teacher turned writer and journalist, takes us back to earlier desecrations, the destruction of the premier artworks of antiquity by Christian zealots (from the Greek zelos — ardor, eager rivalry) in what she calls “The Darkening Age.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/08/books/review/catherine-nixey-darkening-age.html
 
BidenPresident said:
True. Cypress knows nothing. Arabs preserved Greek texts, including Aristotle.
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Cypress has been brainwashed as a child. He's educated himself. And now is trying to combine 'Religion' and 'Science'. Since those are OPPOSITES, he is having trouble.

His next Thread will be "How the Taliban is bring Science and Womens' Liberation to Afghanistan".
 
But Christians did fetishize dogma. In A.D. 386 a law was passed declaring that those “who contend about religion … shall pay with their lives and blood.” Books were systematically burned. The doctrinal opinions of one of the most celebrated early church fathers, St. John Chrysostom — he of the Golden Mouth — were enthusiastically quoted in Nazi Germany 1,500 years after his death: The synagogue “is a den of robbers and a lodging for wild beasts … a dwelling of demons.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/08/books/review/catherine-nixey-darkening-age.html
 
Jack said:
Cypress has been brainwashed as a child. He's educated himself. And now is trying to combine 'Religion' and 'Science'. Since those are OPPOSITES, he is having trouble.

His next Thread will be "How the Taliban is bring Science and Womens' Liberation to Afghanistan".
Click to expand...

Cypress reads something for the first time and instantly becomes an expert. Typical of authoritarians.
 
At least you aren't trollish enough to link Adolph Hitler to Christianity

Jack said:
News Flash: The Christians were the original Book Burners. We can thank the Arabs for our knowledge on the Ancient Greeks.

"How Christians Destroyed the Ancient World"
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/08/books/review/catherine-nixey-darkening-age.html
Click to expand...
So you do not deny that literacy was kept alive in Europe through 500 years of Dark Ages.

You can keep searching Wikipedia for examples of injustice by the Church, but you still have not provided a credible answer to the topic posed by me and Tocqueville


Incipient democratic traditions were emerging before the Enlightenment, so that does not explain it.

Nor does it explain why liberal democracy did not germinate in the traditional Confucian, Hindi, Islamic, or Buddhist civilisations - they had philosophers and intellectuals on a par with Voltaire and Montesquieu.

Alhough the political thinkers of the Enlightenment and Romantic Eras did play an outsized role in advancing the traditions of equality and individualism.

The social context in which individualism, a certain sense of equality, an embrace of civic engagement and mercantile capitalism germinated before the Enlightenment, during the Protestant Reformation.
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...35#post4604035
 
BidenPresident said:
THE DARKENING AGE
The Christian Destruction of the Classical World
By Catherine Nixey
Illustrated. 315 pp. Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. $28.

Vandalizing the Parthenon temple in Athens has been a tenacious tradition. Most famously, Lord Elgin appropriated the “Elgin marbles” in 1801-5. But that was hardly the first example. In the Byzantine era, when the temple had been turned into a church, two bishops — Marinos and Theodosios — carved their names on its monumental columns. The Ottomans used the Parthenon as a gunpowder magazine, hence its pockmarked masonry — the result of an attack by Venetian forces in the 17th century. Now Catherine Nixey, a classics teacher turned writer and journalist, takes us back to earlier desecrations, the destruction of the premier artworks of antiquity by Christian zealots (from the Greek zelos — ardor, eager rivalry) in what she calls “The Darkening Age.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/08/books/review/catherine-nixey-darkening-age.html
Click to expand...

You can seach Google till the cows come home to find examples of injustice committed by the church.

It does nothing to address the issues I articulated.
 
Jack said:
Cypress has been brainwashed as a child. He's educated himself. And now is trying to combine 'Religion' and 'Science'. Since those are OPPOSITES, he is having trouble.

His next Thread will be "How the Taliban is bring Science and Womens' Liberation to Afghanistan".
Click to expand...

You need to respond to what I actually wrote, not to what you wish I wrote.

I said explicitly, transparently, and on several occasions that neither Christianity nor the Protestant Reformation were directly responsible for the emergence of democratic traditions.
 
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