Alexis de Tocqueville: Democracy and Christianity

Cypress said:
You keep jumping in your time machine to time travel back a ~thousand years or more to 1215 and 30 AD to complain about what some Christian said.

My posts have consistently and specially addressed the social impacts of the Protestant Reformation and capitalism and democratic institutions which germinated in the shadow of the Reformation.
Click to expand...

Cool. As said before, I'm aware how you like to link 'Christianity' with Rainbows and Pink Unicorns.
I view it as a product of the Enlightenment.

"Age of Enlightenment
The Age of Enlightenment was an intellectual and philosophical movement that dominated the world of ideas in Europe during the 17th and 18th centuries.Wikipedia"
 
BidenPresident said:
I am not Jewish. I am not a slave. I do not live in the Middle East. Nothing in Christianity is appealing.
Click to expand...

:) Yeah. Unless you're an Autocrat and need lots of passive Drones, 'Christianity' is worthless.
I disagree with the 'Slave Mentality' teachings. The 'Magic' part makes me roll my eyes.
 
Jack said:
:) Yeah. Unless you're an Autocrat and need lots of passive Drones, 'Christianity' is worthless.
I disagree with the 'Slave Mentality' teachings. The 'Magic' part makes me roll my eyes.
Click to expand...

Christianity is authoritarian and counter to the aims of democracy.
Christianity treats people as united under God, but God is the unquestionable power and authority.
Fascism is quite compatible with Christianity, as we see from the Jan 6 attack on the Capitol.
 
BidenPresident said:
Christianity is authoritarian and counter to the aims of democracy.
Christianity treats people as united under God, but God is the unquestionable power and authority.
Fascism is quite compatible with Christianity, as we see from the Jan 6 attack on the Capitol.
Click to expand...

The Problem. I never hear God speak. It's always some stand-in. Some guy with Visions or Dreams or Voices that he hears.



:what2:



(I gotta' go, talk to you later)
 
Jack said:
Cool. As said before, I'm aware how you like to link 'Christianity' with Rainbows and Pink Unicorns.
I view it as a product of the Enlightenment.

"Age of Enlightenment
The Age of Enlightenment was an intellectual and philosophical movement that dominated the world of ideas in Europe during the 17th and 18th centuries.Wikipedia"
Click to expand...

I think the lion's share of progress towards a liberal democratic society occurred in the Romantic Age, which was a reaction against the Enlightenment. The Enlightenment figures mostly favored aristocracy, not democracy. Rousseau may have been an exception. Romanticism stressed individualism, personal liberation and autonomy, imagination. The greatest proponents of liberal democracy came from the Romantic Era.

Moral of the story: you cannot just crop, and cut and paste one period of time from western history and claim everything happened because of that. The arc of western history towards democratic institutions was germinated in the social context of the Protestant Reformation, gained steam in England's Glorious Revolution, and made it's trajectory through the eras of enlightenment and Romanticism, stumbling across the finish line in the 20th century
 
Cypress said:
I think the lion's share of progress towards a liberal democratic society occurred in the Romantic Age, which was a reaction against the Enlightenment. The Enlightenment figures mostly favored aristocracy, not democracy. Rousseau may have been an exception. Romanticism stressed individualism, personal liberation and autonomy, imagination. The greatest proponents of liberal democracy came from the Romantic Era.

Moral of the story: you cannot just crop, and cut and paste one period of time from western history and claim everything happened because of that. The arc of western history towards democratic institutions was germinated in the social context of the Protestant Reformation, gained steam in England's Glorious Revolution, and made it's trajectory through the eras of enlightenment and Romanticism, stumbling across the finish line in the 20th century
Click to expand...

Using CypressLogic: 'Looking at the world map, if you just look at the map, it is plain to see that White people came up with democracy and nurtured it to it's final conclusion. It wasn't the Gooks, wasn't the Spooks, it was the White people. The World Map explains all this. If you will just take the time to find a Globe and look at it. It's as plain as the nose on your face. My logic is undeniable'.

Sure, Cypress. Your logic is undeniable.
 
BidenPresident said:
You are no different than the right wing trolls. When you lose a debate you act like a 10 year old.
Click to expand...

If you want to come on here and cry about the lack of supposed intelligent critical debate, the last thing you should be doing is cynically and intentionally making an inflammatory linkage between Adolph Hitler, the Fascist Nazis, and Christianity ----- and then backpedaling 20 minutes later by lying that you made no linkage.
 
Cypress said:
If you want to come on here and cry about the lack of supposed intelligent critical debate, the last thing you should be doing is cynically and intentionally making an inflammatory linkage between Adolph Hitler, the Fascist Nazis, and Christianity ----- and then backpedaling 20 minutes later by lying that you made no linkage.
Click to expand...

I think you come here to try and convert people.
 
BidenPresident said:
I think you come here to try and convert people.
Click to expand...

So you lied about wanting intelligent debate.

You and I know damn well you intentionally linked Christianity to Adolph Hitler to be as incendiary and cynical as possible.

They you flagrantly lied 20 minutes later trying to claim you made no such linkage.

Intelligent and honest debate, my ass.
 
Cypress said:
So you lied about wanting intelligent debate.

You and I know damn well you intentionally linked Christianity to Adolph Hitler to be as incendiary and cynical as possible.

They you flagrantly lied 20 minutes later trying to claim you made no such linkage.

Intelligent and honest debate, my ass.
Click to expand...


You seem to be in a prayer group going around trying to convert people.
 
BidenPresident said:
You seem to be in a prayer group going around trying to convert people.
Click to expand...

You never complain, not even once, when I post threads about Hinduism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Atheism, Daoism.

Because you are not a detached, free thinking principled atheist.

You are an anti-Christian zealot, who cannot even remember what you posted 20 minutes earlier.

Your issues with Christianty are psychological.

The issue in this thead is Alexis de Tocqueville and what, if any role Christianity played in the role of democracy.
 
Cypress said:
You never complain, not even once, when I post threads about Hinduism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Atheism, Daoism.

Because you are not a detached, free thinking principled atheist.

You are an anti-Christian zealot, who cannot even remember what you posted 20 minutes earlier.

Your issues with Christianty are psychological.

The issue in this thead is Alexis de Tocqueville and what, if any role Christianity played in the role of democracy.
Click to expand...


Tell your prayer group it is not working.
 
Jack said:
Using CypressLogic: 'Looking at the world map, if you just look at the map, it is plain to see that White people came up with democracy and nurtured it to it's final conclusion. It wasn't the Gooks, wasn't the Spooks, it was the White people. The World Map explains all this. If you will just take the time to find a Globe and look at it. It's as plain as the nose on your face. My logic is undeniable'.

Sure, Cypress. Your logic is undeniable.
Click to expand...

Let's hear your explanation for why liberal democracy did not germinate and emerge originally in Confucian, Hindi, Islamic, Buddhist, or Animist civilizations.

I already gave you my theories. And I believe my theories are widely shared in scholarly circles.
 
I do not even think it is Christianity in general which had the social context for democracy to germinate. Eastern Christianity did not seem to provide any fertile ground for Christianity to germinate. The Eastern Orthodox tradition was always big on mysticism, transcendence, and focusing on the next world - it did not put a lot of emphasis on civic engagement in this world.

The Protestant Reformation in contrast, resulted in an environment which stressed individualism, diminished respect for the traditions of authority, a plurality of ideas, a type of equality in a priesthood of all believers, and an explicit embrace of mercantile capitalism and civic engagement.

The Roman Catholic church did keep the ancient Greek intellectual traditions alive, so they may have had an indirect and unintentional role in transmitting Greek thought about democracy.
 
Cypress said:
Let's hear your explanation for why liberal democracy did not germinate and emerge originally in Confucian, Hindi, Islamic, Buddhist, or Animist civilizations.

I already gave you my theories. And I believe my theories are widely shared in scholarly circles.
Click to expand...

I already mentioned Ancient Greece. And I already mentioned the Age of Enlightenment. Maybe I should have thrown in the Renaissance for good measure?

'Religions' are ALL dogmatic and never changing. Just the OPPOSITE of 'Free Thought'. 'Free Thought' and 'Religion' are like Oil and Water.
Who are the people opposed to 'liberal Democracy'? ... the Christian Fascists that you saw on Jan. 6, 2021.
 
Cypress said:
I do not even think it is Christianity in general which had the social context for democracy to germinate. Eastern Christianity did not seem to provide any fertile ground for Christianity to germinate. The Eastern Orthodox tradition was always big on mysticism, transcendence, and focusing on the next world - it did not put a lot of emphasis on civic engagement in this world.

The Protestant Reformation in contrast, resulted in an environment which stressed individualism, diminished respect for the traditions of authority, a plurality of ideas, a type of equality in a priesthood of all believers, and an explicit embrace of mercantile capitalism and civic engagement.

The Roman Catholic church did keep the ancient Greek intellectual traditions alive, so they may have had an indirect and unintentional role in transmitting Greek thought about democracy.
Click to expand...

Cypress: "The Roman Catholic church did keep the ancient Greek intellectual traditions alive, so they may have had an indirect and unintentional role in transmitting Greek thought about democracy."
Jack: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top