Americans are a stupid people - Statistics, Studies and Research

Superfreak said:
good, then we won't be teaching them 9/11 conspiracies or mysterious pipeline fairy tales.

That said, our educational system is in shambles. THAT is why our kids math and science skills are so poor.

Prime example... I was in private schools in Junior high, was taught algebra, geometry, trig and calc in 7th and 8th grades. Then we moved and had no option but to go back to public schools. Where they of course proceeded to force me to retake algebra in 9th grade, geometry in 10th, trig in 11th and calc in 12th. No opting out. No advanced studies. Just wasted time.
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You went to private schools, YET you still came out a prime example of what I'm talking about.

It isn't just the lack of education that makes Americans stupid.
 
Southern Man said:
My grandfather was born in 1904 and graduated from the 8th grade before he went to work full time. He could recite Longfellow by memory in a booming voice that inspired me as a kid, had a vocabulary that you don't see in college kids today, and could do long division in his head. *shrug*
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My father was born in 1925 and could quote Chaucer, Longfellow and Shakespeare with the same ease he could recite the periodic tables.

But the volume of information facing us today has grown exponentially since your grandfather was in school. One of the things I recall from Future Shock was the timeline for humanity based on events & inventions that changed society rather than being based on years. If you look at the 50,000 or so years that humanity has existed, the center of that timeline would be around 1900. The time your grandfather was born into more closely resembles ancient Greece than modern America.

And the children start school at the same age and are expected to finish at the same age. And the school calendar is still based on an agrarian society. Also, the social interactions of your grandfather's time were largely with their own socio-economic group, most people lived and died within 20 miles of where they were born, and the community had more interaction with each other than they do now. So the requirements of the school systems have changed. There is more data to be absorbed and more social differences that must be addressed within the groups in school.
 
blackascoal said:
You went to private schools, YET you still came out a prime example of what I'm talking about.

It isn't just the lack of education that makes Americans stupid.
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Two years in private schools, the rest in public and I can walk circles around you intellectually. Only one of us believes in fairy tales and it isn't me. Look to the mirror, there you will find your stooge.
 
America is the greatest country by a long shot.
BAC is the guy I'd like to burn with the most.
Free enterprise good colleges and the land of opportunity is mainly why we have incomes 1/3 higher than most large countries.
 
blackascoal said:
You went to private schools, YET you still came out a prime example of what I'm talking about.

It isn't just the lack of education that makes Americans stupid.
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In what way is he a "prime example"? The reality is none of the things associated in this "study" are exhibited by Superfreak. You are talking about looking in a mirror, posting test results and saying test results show one thing while saying tests are worthless in another breath.

The public education system is sucking the life out of our nation, yet we stand by and you argue that a better educated populace would still be equally as stupid?

Then you say that "kids can be taught to pass tests but it doesn't mean they have critical thinking skills" yet use those very tests to show that "Americans are stupid".
 
The biggest problems with the stupidity of America isn't because of one political party or another.

It is because we have not fundamentally changed the way we educate our children in 200+ years.

And the fact that intellect is not valued, in and of itself, in America. Education is only valued by the majority as a method for earning more money. (which is why, SM, no one learns to quote Longfellow)


We have the capability to have each child in this country be educated at the rate that is best suited for them. To have the smartest ones always challenged and the slowest ones led along at their own pace. And we could do that for the same cost we now have.

But educating children is a low priority. We want them to be able to pass tests, want to compare them with other students, and have no one's values ignored.
 
WinterBorn said:
My father was born in 1925 and could quote Chaucer, Longfellow and Shakespeare with the same ease he could recite the periodic tables.

But the volume of information facing us today has grown exponentially since your grandfather was in school. One of the things I recall from Future Shock was the timeline for humanity based on events & inventions that changed society rather than being based on years. If you look at the 50,000 or so years that humanity has existed, the center of that timeline would be around 1900. The time your grandfather was born into more closely resembles ancient Greece than modern America.

And the children start school at the same age and are expected to finish at the same age. And the school calendar is still based on an agrarian society. Also, the social interactions of your grandfather's time were largely with their own socio-economic group, most people lived and died within 20 miles of where they were born, and the community had more interaction with each other than they do now. So the requirements of the school systems have changed. There is more data to be absorbed and more social differences that must be addressed within the groups in school.
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Wow winterborn, i never realized what a truly fucked in the head idiot you are.
 
Superfreak said:
good, then we won't be teaching them 9/11 conspiracies or mysterious pipeline fairy tales.

That said, our educational system is in shambles. THAT is why our kids math and science skills are so poor.

Prime example... I was in private schools in Junior high, was taught algebra, geometry, trig and calc in 7th and 8th grades. Then we moved and had no option but to go back to public schools. Where they of course proceeded to force me to retake algebra in 9th grade, geometry in 10th, trig in 11th and calc in 12th. No opting out. No advanced studies. Just wasted time.
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Same thing happened to me in JH, though our public school let me sit in the back and take 8th grade algebra in the 7th.
 
Topspin said:
Same thing happened to me in JH, though our public school let me sit in the back and take 8th grade algebra in the 7th.
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My HS sent me to the college for math because I had already taken their courses. :dunno:

During JHS I went to the HS for math, during HS I went to the college. They even had a bus pass for me so I could travel.
 
WinterBorn said:
Nice critique. No real info, just an insult.
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you said:
There is more data to be absorbed and more social differences that must be addressed within the groups in school.
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Tell me more about the social differences that must be addressed in the groups in the schools. Like which differences, which groups and what should be the mode of addressing them?
 
Damocles said:
In what way is he a "prime example"? The reality is none of the things associated in this "study" are exhibited by Superfreak. You are talking about looking in a mirror, posting test results and saying test results show one thing while saying tests are worthless in another breath.

The public education system is sucking the life out of our nation, yet we stand by and you argue that a better educated populace would still be equally as stupid?

Then you say that "kids can be taught to pass tests but it doesn't mean they have critical thinking skills" yet use those very tests to show that people other places are "more intelligent"?
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I enjoy the way he scoffs at "conspiracy theories" while professing that we should teach our children to believe in things totally absent of science and history .. like giant buildings collapsing from fire. Most of the rest of the world doesn't believe that bullshit either .. just as they didn't believe the bullshit of Iraq.

But more seriously .. the leading cause of personal bankruptcy in America is healthcare costs .. and the majority of those suffering those bankruptcies HAVE healthcare insurance. Our system of education has ZERO to do with that ignorance.

Without question our system of education needs serious work, but there is something much deeper about American ignorance that goes beyond education.

We selected George Bush .. TWICE.

... nuff said.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Tell me more about the social differences that must be addressed in the groups in the schools. Like which differences, which groups and what should be the mode of addressing them?
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In 1912 to 1920, there would have been fewer ethnic groups in most of the country. The larger port cities would be the exception, but certainly not the rule. In most places you might have 2 or 3 ethnic groups and almost all were judeo-christians. And the groups that moved into the areas were actively seeking to become part of the homogenized group. Now the various ethnic groups seek to maintain their own identities. Almost every home had two parents, with the mother staying at home as a homemaker.

In our current society we have half a dozen religions amomh at least as many cultures. We have kids of single parent homes, dual career parent homes, blended family homes, gay/lesbian parents, and more. We have more different cultures being forced into single classrooms and expected to all get along.
 
What about the influence of TV?

Dancing with the stars and such are far more popular than NOVA or any PBS show.
Right wingers keep working on killing PBS.

How about the fact that most parents leave all the eudcation up to the school system?
Not so in the higher achieving countries.
And use the school system as a babysitter so they can both work and increase their income to buy more stuff we are programmed to buy?
Take an interest in their kids soccer but not in their childs science fair?

WE as parents hold much of the blame for this.
 
blackascoal said:
I enjoy the way he scoffs at "conspiracy theories" while professing that we should teach our children to believe in things totally absent of science and history .. like giant buildings collapsing from fire. Most of the rest of the world doesn't believe that bullshit either .. just as they didn't believe the bullshit of Iraq.

But more seriously .. the leading cause of personal bankruptcy in America is healthcare costs .. and the majority of those suffering those bankruptcies HAVE healthcare insurance. Our system of education has ZERO to do with that ignorance.

Without question our system of education needs serious work, but there is something much deeper about American ignorance that goes beyond education.

We selected George Bush .. TWICE.

... nuff said.
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LMAO... where have I stated that anyone should believe in anything absent of science and history? You are the one that believes in the fairy tales. You are the one who continues to proclaim your opponents position is that the buildings 'collapsed from fire'. No matter how many times it is explained to you that there are other factors than just 'fire', you ignore it. Because you are incapable of accepting any evidence that shows your conspiracy theory is insane.
 
uscitizen said:
What about the influence of TV?

Dancing with the stars and such are far more popular than NOVA or any PBS show.
Right wingers keep working on killing PBS.

How about the fact that most parents leave all the eudcation up to the school system?
Not so in the higher achieving countries.
And use the school system as a babysitter so they can both work and increase their income to buy more stuff we are programmed to buy?
Take an interest in their kids soccer but not in their childs science fair?

WE as parents hold much of the blame for this.
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Now you're getting toi the point.

America has many of the best universities and colleges in all the world ...

The Top Ten Universities/Colleges

1 Harvard
2 Yale
3 Cambridge
4 Oxford
5 California Institute of Technology
6 Imperial
7 University College London
8 University of Chicago
9 Massachusetts Inst of Technology
10 Columbia
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/oct/09/internationaleducationnews.highereducation

Blaming our ignorance on just the education system misses the point.
 
Damocles said:
My HS sent me to the college for math because I had already taken their courses. :dunno:

During JHS I went to the HS for math, during HS I went to the college. They even had a bus pass for me so I could travel.
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The consolidation of the public schools was a big mistake.
I went to a small 1 room school for my first 4 years and had completed all the fifth grade studies by the end of my 4 th year. I was promoted from 4th to 6th.
The closed the one room schools and bussed us into town...
 
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