At What Point?

Cypress said:
I'll be looking for you to give a fair and balanced view of the bible: defending it's historicity where scholarship warrants it, and recognizing allegory, myth, and embellishment where it occurs.
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I have done so on many, many occasions. You simply didn't see them or you are now, as is your wont, lying. I have said MANY times there is allegory and metaphor in the Bible. From Genesis to the NT.
 
Commander Dutch said:
Ardent atheists, like MAGAts, Bible thumpers and other extremists, will use every means possible to push their agenda. Conflating disparate stories is the least of their tricks.

Agreed on modern vs. ancient means of communication and standards.

The ardent atheists like to erode belief in a Christianity by tying it to smaller religions such as Mormonism and previously mentioned Branch Davidians. What I find most fascinating is that they rarely attack Jews or, God forbid, Muslims. Three guesses why. LOL
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So much special pleading. It's like you are setting fire to every logic book around.
 
Cypress said:
I've also never been a big fan of equating Joseph Smith to Jesus, Socrates, and The Buddha. Wasn't Joseph Smith a convicted fraudster, or something?
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Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, was charged with approximately thirty criminal actions during his life, and at least that many financial civil suits.[1] Another source reports that Smith was arrested at least 42 times, including in the states of New York, Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois.

While in New York, Smith faced charges of being a "disorderly person" in 1826 and 1830. In Ohio, he was arrested multiple times on a variety of charges. On January 12, 1838, a warrant was issued for Smith's arrest on a charge of banking fraud. Rather than submit to arrest, Smith fled the jurisdiction, escaping Ohio into Missouri.


-- Wikipedia
 
Commander Dutch said:
Ardent atheists, like MAGAts, Bible thumpers and other extremists, will use every means possible to push their agenda. Conflating disparate stories is the least of their tricks.

Agreed on modern vs. ancient means of communication and standards.

The ardent atheists like to erode belief in a Christianity by tying it to smaller religions such as Mormonism and previously mentioned Branch Davidians. What I find most fascinating is that they rarely attack Jews or, God forbid, Muslims. Three guesses why. LOL
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Whatever religion tries to tell us that there is only one omni-everything god that allows untold, needless suffering among his creatures qualifies for being called out on that bullshit.

Now, toss in the laughable resurrection story as a requirement for eternal salvation or eternal damnation and you’ve got that little icing on the cake for disdain.
 
Cypress said:
Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, was charged with approximately thirty criminal actions during his life, and at least that many financial civil suits.[1] Another source reports that Smith was arrested at least 42 times, including in the states of New York, Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois.

While in New York, Smith faced charges of being a "disorderly person" in 1826 and 1830. In Ohio, he was arrested multiple times on a variety of charges. On January 12, 1838, a warrant was issued for Smith's arrest on a charge of banking fraud. Rather than submit to arrest, Smith fled the jurisdiction, escaping Ohio into Missouri.


-- Wikipedia
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Most of those charges were related to people angry with Smith's brand of religion...until similar angry people murdered him. :)

Shit like this was common: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawn's_Mill_massacre
 
domer76 said:
Whatever religion tries to tell us that there is only one omni-everything god that allows untold, needless suffering among his creatures qualifies for being called out on that bullshit.

Now, toss in the laughable resurrection story as a requirement for eternal salvation or eternal damnation and you’ve got that little icing on the cake for disdain.
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Funny. I just ignore them like I do political fanatics such as Clintonites and MAGAts.

Myths are just that, myths. Why does the Jesus resurrection story upset you more than Moses or Muhammad? Buddha?
 
Commander Dutch said:
Most of those charges were related to people angry with Smith's brand of religion...until similar angry people murdered him. :)

Shit like this was common: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawn's_Mill_massacre
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Right, I know that people were pissed at Joseph Smith. I don't know enough about it to say which financial fraud charges were legitimate, and which weren't.

He obviously was self-serving in his claims that God told him he was allowed to have dozens of wives. I never get the impression from Socrates, Jesus, The Bhudda that they were self serving.
 
Cypress said:
Right, I know that people were pissed at Joseph Smith. I don't know enough about it to say which financial fraud charges were legitimate, and which weren't.

He obviously was self-serving in his claims that God told him he was allowed to have dozens of wives. I never get the impression from Socrates, Jesus, The Bhudda that they were self serving.
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As the Wiki link on him pointed out; he lost money as did the church elders in his failed bank and other ventures. I don't know if he was a conman or just crazy....but am inclined to believe the latter.

The Bible has several figures with multiple wives. Not an expert, but obviously bigamy conflicts with the Puritanical Protestant views of marriage and a big reason why Americans, at least the Evangelical ones, continue to attack Mormons to this day. Don't Muslims still allow up to four wives?
 
Commander Dutch said:
As the Wiki link on him pointed out; he lost money as did the church elders in his failed bank and other ventures. I don't know if he was a conman or just crazy....but am inclined to believe the latter.

The Bible has several figures with multiple wives. Not an expert, but obviously bigamy conflicts with the Puritanical Protestant views of marriage and a big reason why Americans, at least the Evangelical ones, continue to attack Mormons to this day. Don't Muslims still allow up to four wives?
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I'm not an admirer of King David or King Solomon because having a harem is self serving and not really the basis of a moral philosophy or an ethical leader
 
Commander Dutch said:
Ardent atheists, like MAGAts, Bible thumpers and other extremists, will use every means possible to push their agenda. Conflating disparate stories is the least of their tricks.

Agreed on modern vs. ancient means of communication and standards.

The ardent atheists like to erode belief in a Christianity by tying it to smaller religions such as Mormonism and previously mentioned Branch Davidians. What I find most fascinating is that they rarely attack Jews or, God forbid, Muslims. Three guesses why. LOL
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Yes, I think it would be wierd to try to equate Jesus, The Buddha, the Dali Lama to David Koresh or Jim Jones. We don't compare Abraham Lincoln to Joseph Stalin, even though they the same career - political leader.
 
Cypress said:
I'm not an admirer of King David or King Solomon because having a harem is self serving and not really the basis of a moral philosophy or an ethical leader
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Yet it's part of the Christian religion since Jesus and most of his Apostles were Jewish. Notice how often the MAGAts dip into the OT to justify their actions.
 
Cypress said:
Yes, I think it would be wierd to try to equate Jesus, The Buddha, the Dali Lama to David Koresh or Jim Jones. We don't compare Abraham Lincoln to Joseph Stalin, even though they the same career - political leader.
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The ardent atheist, like the ardent theists, like to cherry-pick from the Bible, and conflate in whatever manner best suits them.
 
Cypress said:
Yes, I think it would be wierd to try to equate Jesus, The Buddha, the Dali Lama to David Koresh or Jim Jones.
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You certainly get mad when anyone says anything that sounds slightly blasphemous. I wonder why an "agnostic" would get so amped up like that.
 
Commander Dutch said:
Yet it's part of the Christian religion since Jesus and most of his Apostles were Jewish. Notice how often the MAGAts dip into the OT to justify their actions.
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Judaism, as we know it, didn't really exist in the tenth century BCE, at the time of the unified monarchy of David, although modern Jews consider it party of their historical heritage.

The Hebrew Bible wasn't even really edited and compiled until hundreds of years later around the time of the Babylonian Captivity. What we think of as Judaism really is from the second temple period, if not later.


Jesus and Paul seemed to advocate modesty and temperance with respect to sex, and moral freedom under the vision of Jesus meant not to enslave yourself to passions or sins.
 
Cypress said:
Right, I know that people were pissed at Joseph Smith. I don't know enough about it to say which financial fraud charges were legitimate, and which weren't.

He obviously was self-serving in his claims that God told him he was allowed to have dozens of wives. I never get the impression from Socrates, Jesus, The Bhudda that they were self serving.
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Do you think Jesus wrote the Gospels or something? Who cares what Jesus was like as a person? No one is comparing Jesus to Joseph Smith.

You really can't read for comprehension can you?
 
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