Atheism and pedophilia

Into the Night said:
1st Corinthians 15:22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
Yet are gay, which is not in accordance with the laws of God and Christ. That scripture has already been shown to you.

Gay behavior is living in sin. You are denying the teachings of Christ and God. So if all in Christ all shall be made alive, I don't think He will forgive you unless you turn from that behavior. He can't. Otherwise He would cease to be God. His Word would be without meaning or justification.

So you are choosing to live in a paradox of your own making. You will reap the rewards of living in that paradox as well. You cannot have children of your own. You lineage will not continue. All to satisfy a lust that will die along with you.

But you and you alone can choose to leave this behavior and return to the laws of God and Christ. Then and only then is Christ and God in a position to forgive you, and they would just as surely as they have spoken it. They do have conditions, however. You must conform to them.
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That’s what I believe too


Blessings
 
IBDaMann said:
Overcome By Events ... and is now moot. You apparently fall into this category, continue ...


i.e. Mosaic law is OBE, Christ being the overcoming "event" in question.

To this type of Christian, New Testament scripture carries much more weight and is seen as a "correction" or an "update" which takes precedence wherever a perceived contradiction between New and Old Testament appears.


Yeah, the often-made claim is that homosexuality is somehow a choice. I don't see how anyone could choose something repulsive. Try it. Just for a day choose to be a homosexual and to fall in love with a man and to make love to a man. See? You can't. No heterosexual can. Calling it a choice is beyond absurd.

This is where the word "abnormal" enters the picture. Something abnormal happened to each and every homosexual in the formation process, when the genetic information was being interpreted. At a certain point the gender formation didn't link up the part of the brain with the rest of the body and yes, resulting in being born gay. Obviously it is completely natural but abnormal both statistically and as a matter of standard procreation. After that part of formation occurs, none of us have any choice in the matter at any point thereafter.

So we return to the point that originally got me spun up. I totally understand the Christian desire to adhere to Romans and to declare certain behavior to be an abomination but Christians who do so also need to come up with a better justification for why God creates homosexuals exactly as they are, per His master plan, than homosexuality being a choice. It makes as much sense as saying "it was the deceased's choice to fall 28 meters to his death during the earthquake."


Except that this doesn't apply to homosexuality, as your refusal to take a one day test-drive of homosexuality will show. No heterosexual will choose gay sex. There is no "temptation" involved.

Great points. Kudos for your ability to discuss this topic rationally. Well done. You should hire yourself out as a moderator for these discussions.
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As far as it being a choice...it is. This claim that people are born gay is ridiculous. Children aren't even sexually active. Nothing in their genes is forcing this behavior. All genes can do is make one prone to this behavior. Like some who are easily addicted to alcohol, and others the find the taste of alcohol in drinks disgusting from the get go. I'm one of the latter. Alcohol to me is a solvent and a cleaner. That's what it tastes like too (at least to me), regardless of whether it's whiskey, vodka, or a beer.

Did God make alcoholics? No. The genes in some people are simply prone to that weakness. Same with homosexual behavior. It's a choice.

Our bodies are subject to the weakness of this world. We each have our own challenges to overcome. You could say this is the curse of Adam. I say it's a blessing. How else could be learn to distinguish good from evil unless we experience it in some way, even if it's to watch others fall into evil?

We are not born into perfection here on Earth. We are born into imperfection. This is not because God is imperfect, it is because we are here to learn for ourselves what God already knows. We are free to choose for ourselves. We are not free of the consequences of those choices. We die because of those imperfections. God promises the resurrection through Christ. Such resurrection will be to perfect bodies. We can no longer die. We are free of temptations. However, many of the consequences of our choices here on Earth continue.

Those that waste their lives in unproductive sexual behavior (by choice), those that waste their lives in drugs (by choice), those that waste their lives in crime (by choice); are those that do not progress as far as those who have avoided these things. They are damned. Not condemned, but damned, like a dam in a river. They are stopped from progressing as long their unproductive behavior continues. Both God and Christ have taught that this kind of behavior is destructive to the well being of the individual practicing them.

Look through the scriptures, and you'll find many examples of these teachings.

This does, of course, assume that one considers the teachings in the Bible by God and Jesus Christ relevant.

Yes, the Bible contains a lot of errors, introduced accidentally by translations (words translate, but idioms do not), or intentionally by those seeking to gain or hold power (such as the Pharisees, or Roman lawyers).
Yet, it still contains a lot of sound teachings. It's still a valid set of books today that have survived mostly intact through the ages.
 
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Into the Night said:
As far as it being a choice...it is. This claim that people are born gay is ridiculous. Children aren't even sexually active. Nothing in their genes is forcing this behavior. All genes can do is make one prone to this behavior. Like some who are easily addicted to alcohol, and others the find the taste of alcohol in drinks disgusting from the get go. I'm one of the latter. Alcohol to me is a solvent and a cleaner. That's what it tastes like too (at least to me), regardless of whether it's whiskey, vodka, or a beer.

Did God make alcoholics? No. The genes in some people are simply prone to that weakness. Same with homosexual behavior. It's a choice.

Our bodies are subject to the weakness of this world. We each have our own challenges to overcome. You could say this is the curse of Adam. I say it's a blessing. How else could be learn to distinguish good from evil unless we experience it in some way, even if it's to watch others fall into evil?

We are not born into perfection here on Earth. We are born into imperfection. This is not because God is imperfect, it is because we are here to learn for ourselves what God already knows.
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BTW, alcoholism is red herring. It's a fallacy in case you didn't know that. A lot of people love drinking. That doesn't mean they are addicted to drinking or are alcoholics.
 
Into the Night said:
As far as it being a choice...it is.
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Your definition of homosexuality is one of behavior which certainly makes all of it a choice.

My definition is physiological/neurological which is "born that way" / "not a choice."

If you look at it from the perspective of those things that are not choices, e.g. a man who falls in love with men (not a choice) and who finds women sexually repulsive (not a choice), the elephant in the room is the question of how such things that are not choices are somehow choices.

There is no question that acting on those non-choices is a choice ... but what about the direct question of the non-choices?

Into the Night said:
Did God make alcoholics? No. The genes in some people are simply prone to that weakness.
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Agreed, however this differs from homosexuality in that no one starts off desiring the alcohol; they simply become rapidly dependent upon it. Homosexuals start off being attracted to and falling in love with the same gender once they reach a certain age, again without any choice involved. In heterosexuals it's with the opposite sex upon reaching a certain age, no choice involved.

Into the Night said:
Our bodies are subject to the weakness of this world.
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Yep. Preaching to the choir.

Into the Night said:
We each have our own challenges to overcome. You could say this is the curse of Adam.
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Peace n Safety didn't want to answer my question. Why does "Adam's Sin" result in different random "punishments" for each individual? Is there anything in the Bible that touches on that? Some people are weak in one way, others have different weaknesses, some live a long time, some receive very little time on this earth, etc...

Into the Night said:
I say it's a blessing. How else could be learn to distinguish good from evil unless we experience it in some way, even if it's to watch others fall into evil?
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I'm with you. Without actual plagues we wouldn't have an appreciation for our good health. Without Venezuela we wouldn't fully realize what we have here in the US. Your point is well taken.

Into the Night said:
We are not born into perfection here on Earth. We are born into imperfection.
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I'm the living proof.

Into the Night said:
Those that waste their lives in unproductive sexual behavior (by choice), those that waste their lives in drugs (by choice), those that waste their lives in crime (by choice); are those that do not progress as far as those who have avoided these things. They are damned. Not condemned, but damned, like a dam in a river. They are stopped from progressing as long their unproductive behavior continues. Both God and Christ have taught that this kind of behavior is destructive to the well being of the individual practicing them.

Look through the scriptures, and you'll find many examples of these teachings.
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Always on point. Thanks.
 
IBDaMann said:
Surely of all groups, you picked the largest, and you don't know the full amount everyone has "paid out." I like to bash on the Catholic Church as much as anyone but we don't get to pretend we are omniscient.

Did you just ask me if Roman Catholic pedophiles are atheists?
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They clearly have an extremely open concept of the Deity!
 
The claim anybody is 'born homosexual' is just fake bunk put out by activists, and has zero cred. The scum peddling this rubbish have now got people pumping 6 year old children full of hormones and grooming them for sex changes; they're menace and should be locked up, along with the quacks and con artists in the medical fields who encourage this criminal child abuse.

https://www.mygenes.co.nz/summary.html

This site has pdfs for download on most of the topics and the alleged 'science'; you can buy a printed version of the main book, but downloading the individual chapters is free, as is one on the myths under that heading.
 
Chuck said:
The claim anybody is 'born homosexual' is just fake bunk put out by activists, and has zero cred. The scum peddling this rubbish have now got people pumping 6 year old children full of hormones and grooming them for sex changes; they're menace and should be locked up, along with the quacks and con artists in the medical fields who encourage this criminal child abuse.

https://www.mygenes.co.nz/summary.html

This site has pdfs for download on most of the topics and the alleged 'science'; you can buy a printed version of the main book, but downloading the individual chapters is free, as is one on the myths under that heading.
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Every society in history has had a homosexual population. Seems natural.
 
jacksonsprat22 said:
Every society in history has had a homosexual population. Seems natural.
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^ Not a rebuttal. They've also had rapists, murderers, pedophiles, and assorted sociopaths. those were usually handled as bad problems, as should neurotic mentally ill behavior and public health menaces.
 
IBDaMann said:
Your definition of homosexuality is one of behavior which certainly makes all of it a choice.

My definition is physiological/neurological which is "born that way" / "not a choice."

If you look at it from the perspective of those things that are not choices, e.g. a man who falls in love with men (not a choice) and who finds women sexually repulsive (not a choice), the elephant in the room is the question of how such things that are not choices are somehow choices.

There is no question that acting on those non-choices is a choice ... but what about the direct question of the non-choices?
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The difference between alcoholism and homosexuality is nil. Both are acquired behaviors. Both are subject to movement into that behavior by genes. There really is no difference. Some people are prone to alcohol, others are not. Some people are prone to homosexuality, others are not.

You actually made the correct point here. It is the choice to act on that weakness. It is choice. We are free to choose. We are not free of the consequences of that choice.
IBDaMann said:
Agreed, however this differs from homosexuality in that no one starts off desiring the alcohol; they simply become rapidly dependent upon it.
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No. Alcoholics are prone to the desire of alcohol. This is gene based. Homosexuals are prone to the desire of the same gender. This is also gene based. There is no difference at all.
Whether one becomes an alcoholic is a choice...even with the weakness present. Whether one becomes a homosexual is again a choice...even with the weakness present. There is no difference at all.
IBDaMann said:
Homosexuals start off being attracted to and falling in love with the same gender once they reach a certain age, again without any choice involved.
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No. It is a choice. The weakness towards it is gene based. The decision to go there is a choice.
IBDaMann said:
In heterosexuals it's with the opposite sex upon reaching a certain age, no choice involved.
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No. It is a choice. The general tendency to mate with one of the opposite sex is a strong one, true, but it is again a choice. Marriage is a choice. A sex act of any kind is a choice.
IBDaMann said:
Peace n Safety didn't want to answer my question. Why does "Adam's Sin" result in different random "punishments" for each individual? Is there anything in the Bible that touches on that? Some people are weak in one way, others have different weaknesses, some live a long time, some receive very little time on this earth, etc...
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He is operating from a point of ignorance. He is unable to answer this question for you.

But I can.

As you know, we are all different. We have things that we share together, such that we are all human, we are all children of God (assuming one of many faiths...I will use Christianity here), we all have our strengths, and we all have our weaknesses, just as we all look a little different from each other.

Adam's sin does not result in different random 'punishments' for each individual. it only resulted in bringing death into the world, and the world being what it is today...outside the Garden of Eden, and outside the presence of God.
The sacrifice by Jesus Christ is also a sacrifice by God, since Jesus Christ is also the son of God, and Christ lived a perfect life. He was also part of the godhead. That sacrifice paid our price for Adam's transgression...like someone coming to pay the loan we could no longer pay, no matter what we did. Thus, justice was satisfied. The debt has been paid. Thus, through Christ, all men will be resurrected, and be able to return to the presence of God. Effectively, we will be able to enter Eden once again.

Why the variance? God knows each and every one of us. We are his children. He knows what we can be, and he knows what things we must be tested upon. There is also random variance, just like the weather. It is an imperfect world.
Adam brought about this imperfect world, but he did not cause the variance or change any decision of God. A savior for the world was planned from the beginning. Adam not only introduced death into the world, but life also. The difference, you might say, between being a child and an adult.

We each suffer pain. We each suffer loneliness. We each suffer corruption and death. There are different ways in which this comes about, we all suffer these things.

What we suffer can be through God's will, through our own choices, and sometimes even the choices of others (to become a dictator, for example).

You really have to look at it from the point of view of eternity. What does it matter if one happens to be born blind, another prone to alcoholism, another contract a case of leprosy, another lose everything they own in a storm?
All of these things shall pass away. The blind child will develop a special sense of hearing, touch, etc. that compensates for poor to no eyesight. The best piano tuner I know is completely blind. He has excellent hearing. He can identify someone walking into a carpeted room and talk to them by name, simply by the sound of their walk. Those who see normally do not have this sense of acuity in their hearing. Some can't even hear the car approaching them from behind before it's too late. Their eyesight is focused on a tiny one inch screen.

Even in sin, we can learn from it. It can be a teaching moment. It can also be a prison if we let it. We can use the sins of others as teaching moments as well. They may suffer the consequences of their choice, but we don't have to.

The leprosy case learns things others that do not contract this horrible disease learn. Fortunately today, leprosy is now completely treatable. No more leper colonies and the isolation they brought! The presence of leprosy in the world taught people how to beat it, not just cope with it.

A fellow I know contracted polio as a young child and lost the use of both legs. He was a strong individual however and that didn't stop him or even slow him down. He successfully started and ran one business after another. I used to work for him. When he went to catch a plane at the airport, he didn't like to waste time to board the plane. He would arrive right on time to board at the last minute. Anyone not paying attention to those crutches coming down the airport concourse soon learned their mistake! He was faster than normal people walking on their own legs! His arms developed into huge muscles...like legs for arms. He never bothered with a wheelchair.

People with handicaps, no matter what they are, generally don't want pity. They don't want special allowances made for them. They are actually proud to overcome their handicap on their own. It's their challenge in life.

Is having a predisposition towards alcohol or homosexuality any different?

No. It is just another handicap to bear. The only difference with homosexuality, is that it has become a political topic, and many of them want to whine over it to gain advantage over others. That again, is by their choice.
 
Chuck said:
^ Not a rebuttal. They've also had rapists, murderers, pedophiles, and assorted sociopaths. those were usually handled as bad problems, as should neurotic mentally ill behavior and public health menaces.
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But homosexuality never caused problems like those other things you listed. So if homosexuality has always been around and wasn't an issue, why care about it now?
 
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