Atheists more Intelligent

Cypress said:
When Philo died in 50 AD, Jesus of Nazareth was not widely known.

The fact that there is a substantial witten record about him which starts appearing between 55 to 80 AD is almost miraculous. Jesus was a peasant from rural backwater Gallilee with a few dozen followers at best. That is the historical assessment by most scholars.

Peasants simply were not written about in antiquity. The fact that there were oral stories about Jesus circulating in Judea in mid first century AD, and committed to writing within a couple decades of his execution is actually pretty remarkable.
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No, no, no. There are so many holes in this reasoning.

In Matthew's gospel, we're told that, after Jesus died, the corpses of the prophets rose and for three days wandered Jerusalem. Surely a zombie invasion of such proportions would earn at least a footnote in Philo's writings, no?

For that matter, why doesn't Philo mention Herod's killing of the innocent babies that allegedly occured? Philo wrote a lot about Herod, but this event is not even hinted at.
 
Michael_Panetta said:
No. If you make a claim, it's not my burden to disprove it. It's your burden to prove it.

To quote Christopher Hitchens, "Claims made without evidence may be dismissed without evidence."
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you say you don't believe in god. how can you say that if you don't have some definition in your mind? what is that definition? maybe you just hate spiritual people.
 
Michael_Panetta said:
No, no, no. There are so many holes in this reasoning.

In Matthew's gospel, we're told that, after Jesus died, the corpses of the prophets rose and for three days wandered Jerusalem. Surely a zombie invasion of such proportions would earn at least a footnote in Philo's writings, no?

For that matter, why doesn't Philo mention Herod's killing of the innocent babies that allegedly occured? Philo wrote a lot about Herod, but this event is not even hinted at.
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Historical scholars can serparate myth and metaphor, from historical evidence.

There was no reason for an early first century famous Jewish philosopher in Egypt to have heard about, let alone write about, a peasant from backwater Galilee who was executed around 30 AD.

Nobody wrote about peasants in Antiquity.

Not Homer.

Not Gilgamesh.

Not Plato.

Not Herodotus.

Not Cicero.

The fact that multiple highly educated and literate Greek speaking men wrote down the oral traditions about Jesus circulating in Judea starting in the 50s AD is nothing short of remarkable
 
AssHatZombie said:
you say you don't believe in god. how can you say that if you don't have some definition in your mind? what is that definition? maybe you just hate spiritual people.
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I was referring to the Biblical god. But my point is that, outside of religious belief, there's no definition of "god." There's no reason to even assume any sort of "god," because no observable phenomenon suggests it.
 
Cypress said:
Historical scholars can serparate myth and metaphor, from historical evidence.

There was no reason for a famous Jewish philosopher to have heard about, let alone write about, a peasant from backwater Galilee who was executed around 30 AD.

Nobody wrote about peasants in Antiquity.

Not Homer.

Not Gilgamesh.

Not Plato.

Not Herodotus.

Not Cicero.

The fact that multiple highly educated and literate Greek speaking men wrote down the oral traditions about Jesus circulating in Judea starting in the 50s AD is nothing short of remarkable
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The Jesus myth evolved organically, which is why there are contradictions between the gospel texts. Also, you haven't addressed my questions. Why didn't Philo, who wrote thousands of words on mundane events in Jerusalem, never mention Matthew's zombie invasion?
 
Michael_Panetta said:
I was referring to the Biblical god. But my point is that, outside of religious belief, there's no definition of "god." There's no reason to even assume any sort of "god," because no observable phenomenon suggests it.
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You are free discuss your faith, belief in different gods or not, but since there's no way to prove anything outside the Universe or what came before the Universe began, then it's just a good topic for smoking pot in a dorm.

You dodged talking about the beginnings of Christianity. Your right to do so.
 
Michael_Panetta said:
I was referring to the Biblical god. But my point is that, outside of religious belief, there's no definition of "god." There's no reason to even assume any sort of "god," because no observable phenomenon suggests it.
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many people have observed convincing phenomenon, like footprints in the sand when you turned around ..... that you thought were yours?

there's chotchkis more wise than you.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
You are free discuss your faith, belief in different gods or not, but since there's no way to prove anything outside the Universe or what came before the Universe began, then it's just a good topic for smoking pot in a dorm.
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or finding a life purpose outside of money, sex, and power....
 
Dutch Uncle said:
You are free discuss your faith, belief in different gods or not, but since there's no way to prove anything outside the Universe or what came before the Universe began, then it's just a good topic for smoking pot in a dorm.

You dodged talking about the beginnings of Christianity. Your right to do so.
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I didn't dodge anything.

I don't have any religious faith. I don't believe in any gods or fairies or demons.

And what do you mean by "outside" the universe? Or "before" the universe? There is no "outside" or "before" the universe. The universe is all there is.
 
Michael_Panetta said:
The Jesus myth evolved organically, which is why there are contradictions between the gospel texts. Also, you haven't addressed my questions. Why didn't Philo, who wrote thousands of words on mundane events in Jerusalem, never mention Matthew's zombie invasion?
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Already answered about Philo. Trolling now?

The vast majority of scholars of antiquity maintain that the weight of historical evidence is that a Jewish peasant named Jesus was executed by Pontius Pilate, , that his followers circulated oral traditions about him in Judea, and that within 20 to 40 years of his death multiple highly educated and literate Greek speaking authors wrote down these oral traditions about Jesus.

That is a lot of effort to go to for a peasant from backwater rural Galilee.

If you genuinely want to learn about the historical Jesus most large universities have classes about it from reputable scholars of antiquity.
 
Michael_Panetta said:
Philo wrote a lot about first century Jerusalem. He wrote about Pontius Pilate. He wrote about Herod. He wrote about rather mundane events in Jerusalem.

But he's silent on Jesus. I mean, surely he would have at least mentioned the wandering miracle man who, for three years, drew massive crowds and performed massive miracles. Yet he's silent on the matter. It's odd, unless you accept the obvious explanation.
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the obvious explanation being that you are searching for excuses for your disbelief?.....no one gives a fuck if you don't believe.......it's your choice.......
 
Cypress said:
When Philo died in 50 AD, Jesus of Nazareth was not widely known.

The fact that there is a substantial witten record about him which starts appearing between 55 to 80 AD is almost miraculous. Jesus was a peasant from rural backwater Gallilee with a few dozen followers of his ministry at best. That is the historical assessment by most scholars.

Peasants simply were not written about in antiquity.

The fact that there were oral stories about Jesus circulating in Judea in mid first century AD, and these were committed to writing by highly articulate and literate Greek speaking authors of the NT within a couple decades of his execution is actually pretty remarkable.
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one might almost say divinely inspired.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
one might almost say divinely inspired.......
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Speculation.

That relies on an article of faith which is beyond historical analysis.

What is remarkable in a historical context is that multiple highly educated and literate Greek speakers wrote down the oral stories of an obscure peasant from rural Galilee within a a few decades of his execution.

Jesus' small group of peasant followers in Galilee were almost certainly illiterate and Aramaic speaking. The fact that their oral tradition about him was deemed important enough to write down by erudite authors of the Greek speaking Hellenistic world is fairly extraordinary.
 
Cypress said:
Speculation.

That relies on an article of faith which is beyond historical analysis.

What is remarkable in a historical context is that multiple highly educated and literate Greek speakers wrote down the oral stories of an obscure peasant from rural Galilee within a a few decades of his execution.

Jesus' small group of peasant followers in Galilee were almost certainly illiterate and Aramaic speaking. The fact that their oral tradition about him was deemed important enough to write down by erudite authors of the Greek speaking Hellenistic world is fairly extraordinary.
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what can we say.....I guess, like the origin of the universe and the world we live in, shit just happens sometimes.......
 
AssHatZombie said:
or finding a life purpose outside of money, sex, and power....
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Agreed. A person who does this can find happiness no matter where they are. A person who values material things like money, sex and power becomes lost and angry when deprived of those things.
 
Cypress said:
Speculation.

That relies on an article of faith which is beyond historical analysis.

What is remarkable in a historical context is that multiple highly educated and literate Greek speakers wrote down the oral stories of an obscure peasant from rural Galilee within a a few decades of his execution.

Jesus' small group of peasant followers in Galilee were almost certainly illiterate and Aramaic speaking. The fact that their oral tradition about him was deemed important enough to write down by erudite authors of the Greek speaking Hellenistic world is fairly extraordinary.
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It was a lot more than a single bored obscure peasant. Additionally, you should know as well as I do that the vast majority of peasants were illiterate. The reason Gutenberg's machine was so important was because it helped spread the number of books which allowed a greater literacy rate.
 
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