Atheists more Intelligent

Penderyn said:
Certainly, but that not a reason to hate anyone, just to teach them basic thinking, if at all possible.
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Hate is an extreme emotion. Everyone gets angry, that's normal. If they get so angry they do something stupid like murder a spouse, they should pay the consequences of losing control. If they hate, then they have no control. People who hate are mentally unbalanced, a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Do you really think people like our RWNJs aren't a hair-trigger away from murdering innocent men, women and children? Why? Because their emotions rule their reason, not the other way around.

The good news is that most of them are elderly shut-ins who don't have access to firearms and are only a danger to the orderlies in their state retirement facilities.

A Christian grandfather and his 14 year old grandson weren't so lucky when Frazier Glenn Miller murdered them because he thought they were Jews.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34783848
He admitted to killing William Corporon, 69, and his grandson Reat Griffin Underwood, 14, outside the Jewish Community Centre in Overland Park, Kansas.

Terri LaManno, 53, was killed outside a Jewish retirement centre.
 
Cypress said:
Take it from me, I am accustomed to false accusation and character defamation, but that one was actually pretty funny.
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Agreed. Jackson is young, overemotional and thinks he's 100% correct over anyone else. Always a funny combination.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Actually that's a true statement, but it goes with all indoctrination be it being raised a socialist and/or a liberal. Lawyers tend to raise lawyers, businessmen businessmen, doctors doctors, etc. It's a lifetime of repeating things they learned as children. It's not 100% because some losers can't cut the mustard or their parents were assholes about it or, more likely, the child is an asshole who would rebel against anything except being given ice cream or a new car.

Did your parents give you a new car, Jackson?
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I was raised by conservative, Baptist business owners. I'm a liberal, Democratic Socialist attorney,

Explain that one, since you have it all figured out.

Religion is another breed, very different from simple mimicry of a parent's trade. It's brainwashing with fear and threats (Parent to 6-year-old child: "You'll burn in a lake of fire if you don't believe this!")
 
jacksonsprat22 said:
You and Cypress make personal attacks on everyone who disagrees with you.
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Cypress said:
Take it from me, I am accustomed to false accusation and character defamation, but that one was actually pretty funny.
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jacksonsprat22 said:
you're an idiot!
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Cypress said:
This whole exchange is hilarious.
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jacksonsprat22 said:
Gave you a chance, Cypress and Dutch are nothing but trolls!
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The only one who has been relentlessly hurling insults is you.
You seem like the type that can not bear not getting the last word in....so I leave you to hurl a final insult, while I move on.
 
Jerome said:
I was raised by conservative, Baptist business owners. I'm a liberal, Democratic Socialist attorney,

Explain that one, since you have it all figured out.

Religion is another breed, very different from simple mimicry of a parent's trade. It's brainwashing with fear and threats (Parent to 6-year-old child: "You'll burn in a lake of fire if you don't believe this!")
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Are you the second child or baby of the family?

Thanks for the anti-religious rant. Be sure to tell all of you clients you think over 90% of them are brainwashed with fear and threats. :)
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Are you the second child or baby of the family?

Thanks for the anti-religious rant. Be sure to tell all of you clients you think over 90% of them are brainwashed with fear and threats. :)
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I'm the middle child.

Yes, religion is an assemblage of fear-based ideologies. "Believe in god, or burn." That's literally the bible's teachings.

You're not gonna believe this, but everyone, including attorneys, have personal beliefs that some may be offended by.
:eyeroll:
 
Jerome said:
I'm the middle child.

Yes, religion is an assemblage of fear-based ideologies. "Believe in god, or burn." That's literally the bible's teachings.

You're not gonna believe this, but everyone, including attorneys, have personal beliefs that some may be offended by.
:eyeroll
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Thanks.

Disagreed. Dude, your focus is too narrow. Please try to see the bigger picture of humanity....and I'm not talking religion. What you are doing is no better than politicians who fear-monger.

Some people are too fucking sensitive. That's on them. Here's the difference between you and I: I'm advocating live and let live, you're advocating tearing down anything you disagree with.
 
Jerome said:
I'm the middle child.

Yes, religion is an assemblage of fear-based ideologies. "Believe in god, or burn." That's literally the bible's teachings.

You're not gonna believe this, but everyone, including attorneys, have personal beliefs that some may be offended by.
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Your posture of hostility against Christianity is obviously derived from your self professed fundamentalist Baptist upbringing.

That is not the experience of all Christians.

Strictly literal interpretations of the Bible are a result of the Protestant Refoemation, and Biblical literalism was embraced by American fundamentalist Protestant denomination

Literal interpretations of the Bible are not privileged by all Christians.

The most important Christian theologian in the history of Christianity, Saint Augustine 4th century AD, wrote extensively that the interpretation of the Bible had to be based on reason, and the Bible had to comport with the current state of knowlege and natural philosophy (aka, science). That means Saint Augustine considered interpretation of the Bible to be provisional, and subject to reinterpretation on the basis of improving knowlege of nature and natural philosophy.

Saint Augustine thought it was preposterous that the universe was literally created in six days. Such a literal interpretation flew in the face of the state of knowlege of the natural world in the 4th century

The bottom line is that, from the early days of Christianity, Christian theologians have read the literal words of the Bible, but always strove to interpret them symbolically or metaphorically when reason and the current state of science necessitated doing so.

The fundamentalist Baptist literalist view of the Bible is not the prevailing one among Christian theologians for most of history, not is it shared by all Christians today.
 
Cypress said:
Your posture of hostility against Christianity is obviously derived from your self professed fundamentalist Baptist upbringing.

That is not the experience of all Christians.

Strictly literal interpretations of the Bible are a result of the Protestant Refoemation, and Biblical literalism was embraced by American fundamentalist Protestant denomination

Literal interpretations of the Bible are not privileged by all Christians.

The most important Christian theologian in the history of Christianity, Saint Augustine 4th century AD, wrote extensively that the interpretation of the Bible had to be based on reason, and the Bible had to comport with the current state of knowlege and natural philosophy (aka, science). That means Saint Augustine considered interpretation of the Bible to be provisional, and subject to reinterpretation on the basis of improving knowlege of nature and natural philosophy.

Saint Augustine thought it was preposterous that the universe was literally created in six days. Such a literal interpretation flew in the face of the state of knowlege of the natural world in the 4th century

The bottom line is that, from the early days of Christianity, Christian theologians have read the literal words of the Bible, but always strove to interpret them symbolically or metaphorically when reason and the current state of science necessitated doing so.

The fundamentalist Baptist literalist view of the Bible is not the prevailing one among Christian theologians for most of history, not is it shared by all Christians today.
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If my upbringing in the church had been dominated by anthropologists and "Christian theologians", then yes, I would have been taught what I believe today: The Bible is a largely fictional work, inspired by the culture and norms of its day, but with a few nuggets of sound philosophy for families, governments, businesses, etc.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of self-identified American Christians today believe in either a literal Genesis, or "god-guided" evolution (which amounts to the same thing). They also, of course, believe in the divinity of Christ, which for my money is no different than a literal 6-day-creation myth in terms of preposterous thinking. I mean think about it. If you say "of course a 6-day creation myth is ridiculous", but then turn around and say "Of course a man was murdered by Romans on a cross, rotted for 3 days, and returned to life", then you're engaging in magical, ridiculous thinking either way.

What you're mistaking for "hatred of Christianity" is actually an atheist's frustration with the American preponderance of acceptance of myth as fact, and all its trappings (hatred of people who are different, intolerance for people without faith, using Revelations to guide foreign policy, etc.).
 
Jerome said:
If my upbringing in the church had been dominated by anthropologists and "Christian theologians", then yes, I would have been taught what I believe today: The Bible is a largely fictional work, inspired by the culture and norms of its day, but with a few nuggets of sound philosophy for families, governments, businesses, etc.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of self-identified American Christians today believe in either a literal Genesis, or "god-guided" evolution (which amounts to the same thing). They also, of course, believe in the divinity of Christ, which for my money is no different than a literal 6-day-creation myth in terms of preposterous thinking. I mean think about it. If you say "of course a 6-day creation myth is ridiculous", but then turn around and say "Of course a man was murdered by Romans on a cross, rotted for 3 days, and returned to life", then you're engaging in magical, ridiculous thinking either way.

What you're mistaking for "hatred of Christianity" is actually an atheist's frustration with the American preponderance of acceptance of myth as fact, and all its trappings (hatred of people who are different, intolerance for people without faith, using Revelations to guide foreign policy, etc.).
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Christian, Muslim, Jewish fundamentalists have no appeal for me, and often work against the interests of liberal democracy.

There is wisdom and insight in the New Testament, the Hebrew Bible, the Vedas, the Baghavad Gita, the Annalects, the Qur'an. They don't make me agitated, upset, or angry.
 
Jerome said:
If my upbringing in the church had been dominated by anthropologists and "Christian theologians", then yes, I would have been taught what I believe today: The Bible is a largely fictional work, inspired by the culture and norms of its day, but with a few nuggets of sound philosophy for families, governments, businesses, etc.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of self-identified American Christians today believe in either a literal Genesis, or "god-guided" evolution (which amounts to the same thing). They also, of course, believe in the divinity of Christ, which for my money is no different than a literal 6-day-creation myth in terms of preposterous thinking. I mean think about it. If you say "of course a 6-day creation myth is ridiculous", but then turn around and say "Of course a man was murdered by Romans on a cross, rotted for 3 days, and returned to life", then you're engaging in magical, ridiculous thinking either way.

What you're mistaking for "hatred of Christianity" is actually an atheist's frustration with the American preponderance of acceptance of myth as fact, and all its trappings (hatred of people who are different, intolerance for people without faith, using Revelations to guide foreign policy, etc.).
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Religious fundamentalists (are there any other kinds?) are totalitarians. They cannot tolerate different beliefs.
 
Cypress said:
Christian, Muslim, Jewish fundamentalists have no appeal for me, and often work against the interests of liberal democracy.

There is wisdom and insight in the New Testament, the Hebrew Bible, the Vedas, the Baghavad Gita, the Annalects, the Qur'an. They don't make me agitated, upset, or angry.
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Yes, there's wisdom in those books. There is also blatant racism, misogyny, xenophobia, support for rape, infanticide, slavery, etc. I'm not "angry" at the works, I'm "angry" at the fundamentalists in this country who insist on making this book of fables and hatred a platform in our secular government.

Please stop demanding equal "hatred" for "fundamentalist" Jews and Muslims in America. 65% of Americans are Christian as of 2019. https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/ 1.1% are Muslims. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...show-u-s-muslim-population-continues-to-grow/ 1.5% are Jewish (of which VERY few are orthodox). https://www.pewforum.org/2013/10/01/chapter-1-population-estimates/ It's preposterous to blame Jews and Muslims for the effect their supposed "fundamentalism" has on American government.
 
Jerome said:
Yes, there's wisdom in those books. There is also blatant racism, misogyny, xenophobia, support for rape, infanticide, slavery, etc. I'm not "angry" at the works, I'm "angry" at the fundamentalists in this country who insist on making this book of fables and hatred a platform in our secular government.

Please stop demanding equal "hatred" for "fundamentalist" Jews and Muslims in America. 65% of Americans are Christian as of 2019. https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/ 1.1% are Muslims. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...show-u-s-muslim-population-continues-to-grow/ 1.5% are Jewish (of which VERY few are orthodox). https://www.pewforum.org/2013/10/01/chapter-1-population-estimates/ It's preposterous to blame Jews and Muslims for the effect their supposed "fundamentalism" has on American government.
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You are applying anachronistic standards to works of literature which were mostly written in the late Bronze Age.

That is a defective and illogical use of reason by the standards of historical and sociological scholarship.

It was the Christian left who were history's most powerful and effective voices against slavery and racism - from the Quakers to Martin Luther King.

Devout Hindi have been at the forefront of challenging inequities in the caste system.

Muslim women are the most powerful voices in the Arab world against patriarchy.

You obviously bear a lot of resentment about your traumatic childhood association with Baptist fundamentalism. And project that experience onto all Christians.

I would say that you that you are more of an anti-Christian jihadist than you an actual principled atheist who practices logical detachment from all religious tradition. Your "atheism" seems to be based on emotion and politics.

So why not drop the act that you are just a detached observer practicing science and reason regarding world religions?
 
Jerome said:
Yes, there's wisdom in those books. There is also blatant racism, misogyny, xenophobia, support for rape, infanticide, slavery, etc. I'm not "angry" at the works, I'm "angry" at the fundamentalists in this country who insist on making this book of fables and hatred a platform in our secular government.

Please stop demanding equal "hatred" for "fundamentalist" Jews and Muslims in America. 65% of Americans are Christian as of 2019. https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/ 1.1% are Muslims. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...show-u-s-muslim-population-continues-to-grow/ 1.5% are Jewish (of which VERY few are orthodox). https://www.pewforum.org/2013/10/01/chapter-1-population-estimates/ It's preposterous to blame Jews and Muslims for the effect their supposed "fundamentalism" has on American government.
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The problem only comes up for those who regard these ancient texts as 'true'. It is just anachronism. Sensible people try to translate anything useful in the stuff - and there's a lot - into our own ways of thinking. For a long time the powers- that-be, for instance, deliberately left out most of what Jesus actually said about how the world should be organised, in favour anything they could dig up to support their robberies. To demonstrate, list what Jesus had to say about the rich, and learn to see how he made jokes about (for instance) the worthy Pharisees carrying Occupation money with a graven image of the foreign dictator on it: 'Give unto Caesar', indeed). And it's worth examining the tortuous bullshit they made up to explain about the Fatmen trying to twist like camels through the eye of a needle into 'heaven'!
 
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