Atheists more Intelligent

[Dutch Uncle]

Interesting statistics.

There is a PhD thesis waiting for someone who can explain why young white men men are disproportionately represented in atheism.

I tend to hold the atheism of Richard Feynman, Carl Sagan, and Albert Einstein in high regard. I do not believe Christianity, Judaism, or Hinduism ever made them angry. And even these preeminent physicists were not strict, dogmatic atheists. They held out the possibility of a reality and knowlege which were beyond the reach of human reason and scientific experimentation

Due to the anger issue, I think it's peculiar to teenage angst. Specifically US "white male privilege" angst. LOL.

Seriously, most cultures are going to have rebellious teenagers; that's just the nature of children turning into adults. The differences will be seen both individually but also culturally. The rebellious teenage son in 1692 Salem, MA is going to generate a different response than the same kid raised in 90210.

FWIW, Einstein wasn't an atheist. I know Sagan was but don't know about Feynman. Einstein believed in God, but I do not think he was very "religious" per se.

Anger is an emotion. It's illogical as all Trekkie fans know from Mr. Spock. If atheism is all about logic, then emotions are not part of it. An angry atheist is a walking emotional mess, not on the level of a intelligent atheist making a rational decision.

 

[Bill]

it's actually my faith tradition. but now im a nondemoninational JesuBuddhist.

they're kind of snoot.

lol....... I have a friend that has been going to that church since he was a kid.... I tease him occasionally about it but he honestly knows very little about the church or Christianity.........

 

[Bill]

Yes.
99 percent sure they are an offshoot of the Church of England, aka Anglicans -- the original English Protestants

100 percent sure their legacy can be traced to the Protestant Reformation

I think it can be traced to the American revolution..........

Many/most Americans were Anglicans & so the church was divided........ That is what I recall w/out going to look it up....

 

[Kamala Trump]

lol....... I have a friend that has been going to that church since he was a kid.... I tease him occasionally about it but he honestly knows very little about the church or Christianity.........

neoliberal globalist assjackers....

they basically refolded themselves back in with the papists around 2012.

 

[Bill]

neoliberal globalist assjackers....

they basically refolded themselves back in with the papists around 2012.

I dunno the details on it but I wasn't surprised as they held much of the Roman/western traditions..

 

[Cypress]

Or maybe we're annoyed with the Angry Theists sticking his fingers in his ears and ignoring all the plethora of reasons for atheists to have a problem with widespread acceptance of evangelical lawmaking in the U.S.

Nah? No chance? Just keep going with your "angry little boy" theory even as you preach about being "reasonable"?

What a fucking douche you are.

Well there you go.
Just as I stated, your "atheism" is based on emotion and politics, not on reason or logical detachment from all religious tradition.

That has been exactly my point from the beginning.

As for the prosperity gospel and theocracy of fundamental Calvinism, the most compelling and credible voices against it come from the religious left.

I know Quakers, Unitarians, Catholics who can and have made a better case against the theocracy and prosperity gospel of fundamentalist American Protestants than you ever have.

 

[Jerome]

Well there you go.
Just as I stated, your "atheism" is based on emotion and politics, not on reason or logical detachment from all religious tradition.

That has been exactly my point from the beginning.

As for the prosperity gospel and theocracy of fundamental Calvinism, the most compelling and credible voices against it come from the religious left.

I know Quakers, Unitarians, Catholics who can and have made a better case against the theocracy and prosperity gospel of fundamentalist American Protestants than you ever have.

I tore your point to pieces with logical arguments that you then ignored.

Christians have an outsized influence on American politics. THAT'S why American atheists don't spend all their time criticizing Vishnu.

Moron.

 

[Jerome]

Due to the anger issue, I think it's peculiar to teenage angst. Specifically US "white male privilege" angst. LOL.

Seriously, most cultures are going to have rebellious teenagers; that's just the nature of children turning into adults. The differences will be seen both individually but also culturally. The rebellious teenage son in 1692 Salem, MA is going to generate a different response than the same kid raised in 90210.

FWIW, Einstein wasn't an atheist. I know Sagan was but don't know about Feynman. Einstein believed in God, but I do not think he was very "religious" per se.

Anger is an emotion. It's illogical as all Trekkie fans know from Mr. Spock. If atheism is all about logic, then emotions are not part of it. An angry atheist is a walking emotional mess, not on the level of a intelligent atheist making a rational decision.

Wow.

So, you believe in an imaginary sky daddy who is your friend, and you murmur to him on a regular basis and demand only those who adhere to this responsibility have sway over our political futures.

As for those who find this concept silly? You refer to them as "children."

But okay. We're the "angry, emotional" people. LMAO!!

 

[jacksonsprat22]

Wow.

So, you believe in an imaginary sky daddy who is your friend, and you murmur to him on a regular basis and demand only those who adhere to this responsibility have sway over our political futures.

As for those who find this concept silly? You refer to them as "children."

But okay. We're the "angry, emotional" people. LMAO!!

Dutch Uncle thinks anyone who disagrees with him is an immature teenager who has no understanding. Another troll.

 

[Cypress]

I tore your point to pieces with logical arguments that you then ignored.

Christians have an outsized influence on American politics. THAT'S why American atheists don't spend all their time criticizing Vishnu.

Moron.

Wrong.
I have not seen you use reason and logic to oppose the Christian right....

You indulge in juvenile and inflammatory rhetoric about zombie Jesus and sky daddy in an intentional and pre meditated attempt to deride, mock, and disparage all Christians -- not just the Christian right.

So your "atheism" is based on emotion, resentment, cruelty --- not on reserved reason or detached logic. The parables and myths of other world religions are just as far out as the miracles in the NT, but you will specifically hold back from cruel mockery of the mythologies and eschatology considered sacred by Jews, Hindus, Buddhists" Muslims. Buddhists.

It does not bother me in the least if you want to giggle about sky daddies and zombie Jesus. But you cannot point to it as an expression of logical and reasoned aetheist detachment from religious traditions.


Here is an example of using reason and logic against the Christian right....

I do not think the white nationalist Christian right in the USA ever actually believed in morality and character for their (Republican) elected officials.

More importantly, there are theological reasons the Christian right do not seem like traditional pious Christians. The American Christian right largely comes from a Calvinist Protestant legacy where predestination was already determined before the beginning of time, and personal salvation comes only through grace - not good works or deeds. It doesn't matter how many good works and deeds you do, they will have no effect on your salvation. In principle, one can swear, curse, sin without consequence, because one is saved by grace alone.

The mega-church Christian right also has been indoctrinated with the prosperity gospel. That is why they support tax cuts for Wall Street, and cling to a perception that the GOP policies will make them wealthy. The consequence is that the Christian right is not known for social justice, empathy for the poor, economic justice in the way that many Catholic and mainline Protestant churches are

Link >>https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...l-Christian-Values-quot&p=3850542#post3850542

 

[Cypress]

I think it can be traced to the American revolution..........

Many/most Americans were Anglicans & so the church was divided........ That is what I recall w/out going to look it up....

The Anglicans, and their offspring the Episcopalians, purport to be an indigenous English form of Protestantism which formed independently from Luther and Calvin on the continent during the Reformation. That is what I recall leaning in world religions class.

The Anglicans seem like they wanted to retain some of the Catholic ceremonial traditions, because they kept the hierarchy of Bishops and Archbishops, and they kept fancy liturgical vestments for their clergy. Perhaps it was a way of selling the Church of England to a nation which had been Catholic for 800 years

 

[Jerome]

Wrong.
I have not seen you use reason and logic to oppose the Christian right....

You indulge in juvenile and inflammatory rhetoric about zombie Jesus and sky daddy in an intentional and pre meditated attempt to deride, mock, and disparage all Christians -- not just the Christian right.

Please find one instance of me using the word "zombie Jesus." Even if I did, throwing a few colorful words into a reasoned argument doesn't invalidate the entire argument, unless you're so completely up your own ass that you will dismiss others' arguments out of hand the moment you see one of those words, because you're incapable of a decent rebuttal.

So your "atheism" is based on emotion, resentment, cruelty

Wrong. Atheism is based purely in not believing in a fantastic, divine deity. It's about believing in science, and that which can be tested and replicated. You interpret emotion, because you feel threatened by that argument, and you want desperately to diminish the threat, so you can feel safe and secure in your infantile beliefs.

The parables and myths of other world religions are just as far out as the miracles in the NT,

So why don't you believe in those? There are about 3,000 other deities in recorded history. You're an atheist with respect to all of them

....save 1.

Is your "atheism" with respect to Allah, Vishnu, Zeus, Apollo, etc., based in anger, resentment, and teenage-level angst?

but you will specifically hold back from cruel mockery of the mythologies and eschatology considered sacred by Jews, Hindus, Buddhists" Muslims. Buddhists.

I mock and insult Islam constantly, because like Christianity, Islam meddles in secular politics, demeans women and ethnic minorities, promotes slavery and subjugation, and justifies violence. Not all religions are created equal.

If you knew a single thing about any of those other religions, you might understand that. But your education probably consists of lifelong Sunday school and some business degree at a state school, so your knowledge and expertise is painfully limited. Yet another reason you diminish threatening arguments, because yet again, you're insecure in your beliefs/identity/education.

It does not bother me in the least if you want to giggle about sky daddies and zombie Jesus. But you cannot point to it as an expression of logical and reasoned aetheist detachment from religious traditions.

No, but I can point to the literal thousands of other arguments against believing in any deity as reasoned, logical expressions of disbelief.

The giggling is just for fun. The fact that it riles you up so much is a huge bonus.


As for your "not a true scotsman" logical fallacy, I don't think you get to disown White Nationalists on the Christian Right. They're Christians. And much of what they say (such as support for slavery, support for misogyny, etc.) is codified in the bible. If you believe the bible is the divine word of God, then you have to take all the nasty with the Hippie Jesus bread-breaking stuff.

 

[Cypress]

Please find one instance of me using the word "zombie Jesus." Even if I did, throwing a few colorful words into a reasoned argument doesn't invalidate the entire argument, unless you're so completely up your own ass that you will dismiss others' arguments out of hand the moment you see one of those words, because you're incapable of a decent rebuttal.



Wrong. Atheism is based purely in not believing in a fantastic, divine deity. It's about believing in science, and that which can be tested and replicated. You interpret emotion, because you feel threatened by that argument, and you want desperately to diminish the threat, so you can feel safe and secure in your infantile beliefs.



So why don't you believe in those? There are about 3,000 other deities in recorded history. You're an atheist with respect to all of them

....save 1.

Is your "atheism" with respect to Allah, Vishnu, Zeus, Apollo, etc., based in anger, resentment, and teenage-level angst?



I mock and insult Islam constantly, because like Christianity, Islam meddles in secular politics, demeans women and ethnic minorities, promotes slavery and subjugation, and justifies violence. Not all religions are created equal.

If you knew a single thing about any of those other religions, you might understand that. But your education probably consists of lifelong Sunday school and some business degree at a state school, so your knowledge and expertise is painfully limited. Yet another reason you diminish threatening arguments, because yet again, you're insecure in your beliefs/identity/education.



No, but I can point to the literal thousands of other arguments against believing in any deity as reasoned, logical expressions of disbelief.

The giggling is just for fun. The fact that it riles you up so much is a huge bonus.


As for your "not a true scotsman" logical fallacy, I don't think you get to disown White Nationalists on the Christian Right. They're Christians. And much of what they say (such as support for slavery, support for misogyny, etc.) is codified in the bible. If you believe the bible is the divine word of God, then you have to take all the nasty with the Hippie Jesus bread-breaking stuff.

^^ word salad

 

[Dutch Uncle]

^^ word salad

AKA "text wall". When someone regurgitates everything they know about subject, rather than respond to every single point, I just choose which one I like best and respond to that.

In this case, this one:

...I mock and insult Islam constantly, because like Christianity, Islam meddles in secular politics, demeans women and ethnic minorities, promotes slavery and subjugation, and justifies violence. Not all religions are created equal....

Mocking and insulting others for being different is what BLM, the ADL and other groups are fighting against. Are you a Republican or just an immature "angry atheist"?

I prefer to live in a secular nation and support the idea that religion is a personal issue and should not use the power of government to enforce beliefs upon others. That goes too for the atheist assholes who seek to use government to "mock and insult" the beliefs of others which differ from yours.

 

[Cypress]

AKA "text wall". When someone regurgitates everything they know about subject, rather than respond to every single point, I just choose which one I like best and respond to that.

In this case, this one:Mocking and insulting others for being different is what BLM, the ADL and other groups are fighting against. Are you a Republican or just an immature "angry atheist"?

I prefer to live in a secular nation and support the idea that religion is a personal issue and should not use the power of government to enforce beliefs upon others. That goes too for the atheist assholes who seek to use government to "mock and insult" the beliefs of others which differ from yours.

Nice work.

Barack Obama, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden show due respect to authentic Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, as well as respect for non believers.

They get it.

I personally don't think one can understand the human condition or world culture without having an open mind to respectfully learn about the world's religious traditions and ethical philosophies. Giggling over juvenile jokes about Zombie Jesus, sky daddy, goat fucker Muhammad kind of defeats the purpose .

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Nice work.

Barack Obama, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden show due respect to authentic Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, as well as respect for non believers.

They get it.

I personally don't think one can understand the human condition or world culture without having an open mind to respectfully learn about the world's religious traditions and ethical philosophies. Giggling over juvenile jokes about Zombie Jesus, sky daddy, goat fucker Muhammad kind of defeats the purpose .

Agreed, but let's be honest. The people who constantly make juvenile jokes have juvenile minds. Their choice, but it's not something to be respected.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Wrong. Atheism is based purely in not believing in a fantastic, divine deity.

that simply is not true......atheism is not simply "not believing".......that is agnosticism........atheism is denial.......

 

[Iolo/Penderyn]

Christians have an outsized influence on American politics. THAT'S why American atheists don't spend all their time criticizing Vishnu.

.

Quite. I've never seen the point in attacking some belief you weren't brought up in anyway - it inevitably turns into an ill-informed hymn of hate, like American right-wingers attacking something they call 'communism', which soon turns into something resembling the Salem witches, a falsification of reality. Most major religions have a core of deeply proper teachings about how to behave, and a good deal of nasty drivel stuck in by past opportunists, which we should leave to people taught the religion when young to see off. The difficulty of relations between 'Christian' populations and Muslim ones is, essentially, that colonialism has held back the latter at least a generation, and hate-ranting by outsiders makes serious internal criticism harder. A serious Christian, I think, was someone brought up to follow the teaching of Jesus about the brother/sisterhood of all humans, while the concept 'God' was something universal once upon a time but a lot less easily graspable today, when it is very hard to fit with our understanding of the universe(s).

 

[Cypress]

Quite. I've never seen the point in attacking some belief you weren't brought up in anyway - it inevitably turns into an ill-informed hymn of hate, like American right-wingers attacking something they call 'communism', which soon turns into something resembling the Salem witches, a falsification of reality. Most major religions have a core of deeply proper teachings about how to behave, and a good deal of nasty drivel stuck in by past opportunists, which we should leave to people taught the religion when young to see off. The difficulty of relations between 'Christian' populations and Muslim ones is, essentially, that colonialism has held back the latter at least a generation, and hate-ranting by outsiders makes serious internal criticism harder. A serious Christian, I think, was someone brought up to follow the teaching of Jesus about the brother/sisterhood of all humans, while the concept 'God' was something universal once upon a time but a lot less easily graspable today, when it is very hard to fit with our understanding of the universe(s).

Everybody on the left, including the religious left, opposes the Christian right's attempt to dismantle our secular government.

That is a whole other issue.

The armchair psychologist in me is asking a non-political question. It has nothing to do with whether one opposes the politics of white Christian nationalism.

There is a certain strand of atheism which takes pleasure and glee making mockery of parables and stories written in the bible. They claim they are using science and reason as the basis for their jokes and mockery.

But why limit it to Christianity? All faith traditions have sacred texts or mythologies that when taken literally are just as dubious an incredulous as anything in the New Testament.

Unless it is not actually fealty to science and reason that is being expressed - but it is an emotional desire to mock and ridicule Christian scruptire that is the basis of the jokes.

 

[Iolo/Penderyn]

Everybody on the left, including the religious left, opposes the Christian right's attempt to dismantle our secular government.

That is a whole other issue.

The armchair psychologist in me is asking a non-political question. It has nothing to do with whether one opposes the politics of white Christian nationalism.

There is a certain strand of atheism which takes pleasure and glee making mockery of parables and stories written in the bible. They claim they are using science and reason as the basis for their jokes and mockery.

But why limit it to Christianity? All faith traditions have sacred texts or mythologies that when taken literally are just as dubious an incredulous as anything in the New Testament.

Unless it is not actually fealty to science and reason that is being expressed - but it is an emotional desire to mock and ridicule Christian scruptire that is the basis of the jokes.

My reaction to this stuff is always that it's the products of disillusioned fundamentalists who haven't developed very far from where they started - just do it negatively. Thinking's better.