C
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I think you have hit it here. None of us like rewarding people who have screwed up. But none of us wants to see the massive hit our, already failing, economy will take.
Auto industry: to bail or not to bail
- Thread starter Onceler
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I think you have hit it here. None of us like rewarding people who have screwed up. But none of us wants to see the massive hit our, already failing, economy will take.
I don't expect you to.
My basic objection to such a bailout would be the reward to failure and the expectation that those who failed so miserably before would somehow be magically capable of success because they got funding from us. Fire the CEOs, no parachutes, no "bonus" for their retarded leadership. Retool and remake with new leadership with a capacity to understand that there is a future and I could imagine it becoming something good, even if it is something I dislike.
DigitalDave
Sexy Beast!
They completely took over WM, then sold it minutes later for pennies on the dollar.
I think making it available to purchase might be the way to go rather than suggesting that they have to start from scratch.
Take bids and business plans and sell to the best and the brightest. I don't even mind supporting them with an investment towards their retooling and remaking the plants. I dislike the idea of throwing good money after bad, I always will. They are already proven failures, yet we propose to keep them going because their total collapse will hurt all of us. I understand that, but it is not the only option.
True, and it sucked. As I said, if they seize the means of production you will lose all your money.
i have no problem getting rid of the guys who engineered this debacle. let's start with this genius:
"Nothing typified this more than statements like those of Bob Lutz, G.M.’s vice chairman. He has been quoted as saying that hybrids like the Toyota Prius “make no economic sense.” And, in February, D Magazine of Dallas quoted him as saying that global warming “is a total crock of [expletive].”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/opinion/12friedman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Try. Try explaining how letting the big 3 die will be good for Americans.
DigitalDave
Sexy Beast!
Yep, its just a possibility, though I think with GM it's doubtful, that they take over and sell to a 'better run' company. There really isn't too many options with auto-makers in the states. If that happens though, look for stockholders to get wiped out.
Not sure if they can fire this guy soon enough. It's a bad idea to let your politics influence your decision-making in business.
you are probably not getting enough vitamins.
I still would prefer that we simply auction them to companies without such a track record of total and abject failure and incapacity to understand that there will be a future.
Just as we should have done with the mortgage companies that were "too big to fail".
DigitalDave
Sexy Beast!
It will create an environment, for smaller auto-makers looking to sell next-gen cars, where they can survive. That's just one off the top of my head. The immediate impact would be devestating but long-term progress needs to be taken into account.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
That is what you get for thinking.... Read his quote again...
He doesn't want to 'purchase failure'... ie... don't give tax money to the same idiots who caused this failure in the first place.
'we reward their failure with millions as we send them merrily on their way".... again referring to giving tax dollars to the idiots that ran these companies into the ground. Another reference to the fact that if we do this we cannot allow current managment to stay on as it simply invites future failure.
Obfuscate
Powered By: Capitalism
Because failure is just as important as success in a Capitalistic system. It's called Creative Destruction. Bailouts are such a moral hazard and all you'll get is more distortions in the price system, more poor decisions and more bailouts until the economic system is so distorted we have a total collapse of the dollar and confidence. Filthy Fucking Socialist you deserve the poverty you'll end up getting.
evince
Truthmatters
Do the thousands, and probably millions of workers, who have done the right thing & worked hard & who will lose their jobs because of mismanagement deserve their poverty?
DigitalDave
Sexy Beast!
Just a year ago, I can recall some dems asking for tax increases on gasoline. Look at the shit GM is in now, and think how that would have impacted this situation today. With gas prices coming down again, with the assistance of a bailout, GM will survive another day, and keep making the same old gas-guzzlers, because people will buy them again soon. So now, the question is, which consequence is worse? Loss of immediate jobs, or long term stability/security continueing to be jeopordized. I'm all for progress, I say let 'em fail.
putting aside the question of whether the US is on its way to more of a social democracy or not...i have never seen such, i'd call it, unhinged, hatred of socialists. this is a milton friedman thing. i have always said - that's a religion, and it's a religion populated by fanatics. be careful they may very well start a holy war and "purify" the country of heretics.
if it were to go the way you lay out - bailing them out and back into the same old same old, making gas guzzlers, then i'd say let them fail.
that is not obama's plan, and until i see good reason to do otherwise, i'm going to believe he means what he says.