Banker: We had "sanity checks" on Trump's loans

T. A. Gardner said:
It's 99% of lawyers that give the other 1% a bad reputation...
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Jarod said:
Id say 95% but I agree with the sentiment.
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Postmodernprofit, if really a lawyer is chief amongst them.

A claimed real estate lawyer who is claiming it is perfectly valid and not a crime to lie on submitted forms to banks and Insurance as long as you make good and pay them.

If he is a lawyer, he is to real estate law what Sydney Powell was to election law and fraud knowledge.

I mean, obviously lawyers this dumb do exist, but wow. Does not say great things about the profession.
 
JesusAI said:
banks aren' that stupid.

you don't need to worry about banks getting taken advantage of.

your sense of justice is warped by core elitistis biases.
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I am making no claims about the banks and what is fair or not for them.

We are discussing 'IS IT A CRIME TO LIE AND COMMIT FRAUD ON BANK AND INSURANCE FORMS'?

You derps are arguing that is not a crime or that elitist, globalist, like Trump should get away with them. I want equal application of the law, meaning Trump gets charged and faces parole restrictions like everyone else. Strip him of his elitist protections.
 
QP! said:
I am making no claims about the banks and what is fair or not for them.

We are discussing 'IS IT A CRIME TO LIE AND COMMIT FRAUD ON BANK AND INSURANCE FORMS'?

You derps are arguing that is not a crime or that elitist, globalist, like Trump should get away with them.
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is there a crime when there is no victim?
 
JesusAI said:
is there a crime when there is no victim?
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Honest question. How do people as simple minded as you even manage to breath?


YES, lying on Government forms, Bank forms and Insurance forms and some others is illegal, even if you do not cause others to suffer financial losses.

NOne of the below require a person cause any loss. Simply SUBMITTING fraudulent forms is a crime, even if the bank or Insurance company catches and rejects them.



...INTENT TO DEFRAUD STATUTE NYS LAW.

...In the 2008 decision People v Elliassen, the Richmond County Supreme Court (within the Second Department) held that the intent to defraud required no pecuniary loss, and that interference with the legitimate public administration... sufficed . The court stated:

Counts Two through Thirteen, Falsifying Business Records in the First and Second Degrees, ... These statutes require defendants to have an “intent to defraud”. It is not necessary to show a property or pecuniary loss from the fraud,....


...The court reviewed relevant precedent–including Kase, Schrag, and Elliassen–and held that “the term ‘intent to defraud’ does not require an intent to deprive the state of money or property, but rather intent to frustrate legitimate state interests and processes.
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QP! said:
Honest question. How do people as simple minded as you even manage to breath?


YES, lying on Government forms, Bank forms and Insurance forms and some others is illegal, even if you do not cause others to suffer financial losses.

NOne of the below require a person cause any loss. Simply SUBMITTING fraudulent forms is a crime, even if the bank or Insurance company catches and rejects them.
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they are contracts.

banks do due diligence before signing them themselves.

they don't just take people's words for things.

Do you Bank at IBA? Idiots Bank of America?
 
JesusAI said:
they are contracts.

banks do due diligence before signing them themselves.

they don't just take people's words for things.

Do you Bank at IBA? Idiots Bank of America?
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False. Banks do SOME due diligence and ALSO rely on representations.

Read above what they Deutsche Bank loan manager said in court about Trumps representations and how HE WOULD NOT have got the loans had they known the full truth of Trump's lies and fraud about values.

In 2008 Mortgage crisis, it was shown that Mortgage brokers were filing in loans with 'fake income' and 'assets' to then get banks to fund the loans. The banks did not recheck the work of the Mortgage brokers and RELIED on their written representations that they did the work and checks and the information given was truthful and accurate.

Again what you are arguing is that you can lie about everything you submit to the bank. That you earn 100 times what you do. That you own assets you do not. And that the bank either catches every lie with their diligence or it is no crime, because you are allowed to lie.


That just shows the depths of your stupidity that you made it to adulthood and think that.
 
From above...

...Trump’s statements of financial condition were key to his approval for a $125 million loan in 2011 for his Doral, Florida, golf resort and a $107 million loan in 2012 for his Chicago hotel and condo skyscraper, former Deutsche Bank risk management officer Nicholas Haigh testified.

They also helped Trump secure bigger loans and lower interest rates, said Haigh, who headed the risk group for the bank’s private wealth management unit from 2008 to 2018.

...Deutsche Bank’s rules required Trump to act as a guarantor for the Doral and Chicago loans in addition to putting up the Miami-area resort and Wabash Ave skyscraper as collateral, meaning he would’ve been obligated to repay the loans if his properties faltered.

Deutsche Bank’s private wealth management unit, which handled the loans, wouldn’t have approved them without a “strong financial guarantee” from Trump, Haigh said...
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QP! said:
"reliance" is captured in you filling out a bankers or Insurance statement with inaccurate information.

For instance, if you tell a bank or Insurance firms a property has certain value (can be developed) when you know it cannot as you signed away perpetual development rights.

That is fraud whether or not they suffer a direct financial loss or not.




But it IS fraud.

He gained that loan under false and fraudulent written representations.




Yes. And in both instances filling out the forms with the wrong info creates a fraud.

You claim to be real estate lawyer and even if a terrible one, as is clear if true, you must know if you deliberately tell the Insurers of your properties the wrong values of the properties by significant margins, that is fraud, even if you pay all you premiums.

You do actually know that right?
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Not fraud. You can insure your property for whatever value you like. That's legal.
 
QP! said:
The bank DID NOT know all the figures as was stated in court.


And again you simpleton, you cannot apply for a loan saying you have a job where you make $x/yr when you do not, that you own a property and other assets when you do not, and other fraudulent statement and say 'ya but i made all the payments on the loan i got, therefore there was no fraud'.

That is not how the law works you simpleton.
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Attempted proof by contrivance. False equivalence fallacy.
 
QP! said:
Nothing shows why the Right is doomed to fail in all they do more than the above.

Sorry to say it but there are not 5 functioning brain cells collectively amongst them.

They are so easily duped and fooled that if you say to them 'if you can find a Mortgage Broker who is a criminal and willing to submit fraudulent forms for you to get you a bunch of properties and mortgages, you would not qualify for, it is not illegal as long as you can make the payments'.

So if you manage to rent all the properties out and never miss a mortgage payment, but the gov't now knows that both you and Mortgage Broker perpetrated this fraud, the gov't cannot do anything except sit idly by and wait and see if you miss a payment, at which time then they can charge you and the Mortgage broker.

There is not much that is more stupid than that and yet the Right falls for it thinking 'oh ya i can lie and borrow as much as i want and it is not fraud as long as i do not miss a payment'.

I invite all of them to try it.
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No fraud. No crime.
 
QP! said:
False. Banks do SOME due diligence and ALSO rely on representations.

Read above what they Deutsche Bank loan manager said in court about Trumps representations and how HE WOULD NOT have got the loans had they known the full truth of Trump's lies and fraud about values.

In 2008 Mortgage crisis, it was shown that Mortgage brokers were filing in loans with 'fake income' and 'assets' to then get banks to fund the loans. The banks did not recheck the work of the Mortgage brokers and RELIED on their written representations that they did the work and checks and the information given was truthful and accurate.

Again what you are arguing is that you can lie about everything you submit to the bank. That you earn 100 times what you do. That you own assets you do not. And that the bank either catches every lie with their diligence or it is no crime, because you are allowed to lie.


That just shows the depths of your stupidity that you made it to adulthood and think that.
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they're fully responsible for what they sign.

the bank is not bringing a suit.

this judge is off the rails and should be locked up.
 
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