Can there be a proof of God?

American Man said:
We can talk about the absurdity of Moses leading the Jews to the Promised Land, which, at the time that the story of Moses allegedly takes place, would have still been part of the Egyptian Empire. Or the fact that there's no record of a mass exodus from Egypt, or any record of any plagues, etc.

My favorite absurdity is the claim that 600,000 Jews were led by Moses during the Exodus. The Bible specifies this as 600,000 men, plus their wives and children and servants.

It doesn't tell us the number of wives or children or servants. But let's be super conservative (because even with super conservative numbers, this story is still hilarious) and only assume that 25% of the men had wives. That would be an additional 150,000 people. So:

600,000 men + 150,000 women = 750,000.

And if we assume that only 25% of those couples had children -- say one boy and one girl each -- that's an additional 300,000 people.

750,000 adults + 300,000 children = 1,050,000 people.

Keeping our numbers super conservative, we're at over 1 million people. And we haven't even gotten to the servants yet!

The problem is that, at the time the Exodus is alleged to have occurred, Egypt's population was 3.5 million.

If we're to believe the Bible, we would need to believe that at least 1/3 of Egypt's entire population just got up and left. If this had happened, there would have been dire socioeconomic repercussions for Egypt.

And yet . . . .

There's no record anywhere of Egypt facing such a socioeconomic disaster.
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you realize I hope that your opinions of what is or is not absurd does not count as evidence........again I have no objections to what you choose to take in faith.......just don't pretend it is fact.....
 
Obviously, Genesis is largely mythological and legendary, and that is recognized by the majority of both irreligious and religious people, whether or not there is a nugget of historical or moral truth at the core.

But I always wondered why virtually one hundred percent of the mockery and derision of the bible is directed at only ten percent of it- the Book of Genesis.
 
Cypress said:
Obviously, Genesis is largely mythological and legendary, and that is recognized by the majority of both irreligious and religious people, whether or not there is a nugget of historical or moral truth at the core.

But I always wondered why virtually one hundred percent of the mockery and derision of the bible is directed at only ten percent of it- the Book of Genesis.
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That's a typical nonbelievers pov.
 
Defender of Honor said:
That's a typical nonbelievers pov.
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Outside of the fundamentalist Protestant sects, there are almost no Christian or Jewish denominations who maintain the universe was literally created in six days, that the Earth is 6000 years old, or that Noah's Ark, rather than evolution, is responsible for the preservation and propagation of species.

As a matter of physics, you could legitimately say the universe was created in 10[SUP]-6[/SUP] seconds
 
BidenPresident said:
Over two thousand years trying to construct a proof. How many thousands of years do we need?
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The question is not "Do we have any proof of any gods?", but "If there is at least one god, CAN we obtain proof of it?"

It is my position that it is at least possible that proof CAN be obtained of ANYTHING that actually exists. So if a god actually exists...it is at least possible that we can find proof of it. If, for instance, a god exists and that god wants to reveal itself in a totally unambiguous way...IT CERTAINLY COULD if it chose DO SO.

I see lots of logic pointing to "IT COULD HAPPEN" (if any gods exist)...and absolutely none that it could not happen.

If you think that is unreasonable...let's discuss it, because I think it is unassailable.
 
Cypress said:
Outside of the fundamentalist Protestant sects, there are almost no Christian or Jewish denominations who maintain the universe was literally created in six days, that the Earth is 6000 years old, or that Noah's Ark, rather than evolution, is responsible for the preservation and propagation of species.

As a matter of physics, you could legitimately say the universe was created in 10[SUP]-6[/SUP] seconds
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It's not 6 ,24 hour days Sun and the moon weren't created till the 4th day.No where does it say 6000 years,that's a misinterpretation.
The flesh evolved, the Spirit is the connection with God's spiritual family.
None believers will always be on the outside looking in.
Without Faith you'll never understand the Bible
 
Frank Apisa said:
It is my position that it is at least possible that proof CAN be obtained of ANYTHING that actually exists. So if a god actually exists...it is at least possible that we can find proof of it.
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Alright, consider this. About two thousand years have shown no proof of God has been given. Why do you think that is?
 
Defender of Honor said:
It's not 6 ,24 hour days Sun and the moon weren't created till the 4th day.No where does it say 6000 years,that's a misinterpretation.
The flesh evolved, the Spirit is the connection with God's spiritual family.
None believers will always be on the outside looking in.
Without Faith you'll never understand the Bible
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So you are saying Genesis is allegorical, not literal. I agree.
 
BidenPresident said:
Alright, consider this. About two thousand years have shown no proof of God has been given. Why do you think that is?
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Stop using "God" and ask the question the way it should be asked, "Why is there no proof that at least one god exists?"

MAYBE there are no gods.*

MAYBE gods exist, but do not intend ever to reveal themselves.

MAYBE gods exist, but they are not the personal kinds of gods humans tend to invent.

MAYBE gods exist, but they "created" this world to get some amusement out of fucking it over.

MAYBE gods exist, and have decided to make their existence a kind of puzzle for evolving, intelligent entities to work on and perhaps solve...so that the entities that eventually do, can join them as gods.

Etc, etc, etc.

But the asserting, "There CANNOT be proof of gods existing (if there are any gods that exist)...is illogical."


*When I use the word "GOD or gods" here, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST.
 
Frank Apisa said:
I already realized that.

Think about it.

See if you can see any difference between "a god" and "God."

See if you can see any difference between the question, "Does God exist?" and "Does at least one god exist?"
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Semantically, yes. But logically, seems to be a trivial distinction.

Maybe it is time for you to explain the definition of "a god."
 
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BidenPresident said:
Maybe our entire universe is a thought in the mind of a six year old in another universe. Why speculate on something that has no consequences?
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I'm not. You are.

I am merely making the point that saying, "There can be no proof of any gods (if at least one god exists)...is illogical.

That has been my point and my only point here.
 
BidenPresident said:
Semantically, yes. But logically, seems to be a trivial distinction.
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It is NOT trivial at all.

The way you ask it, indicates that you are asking for proof of a "God" that you have in mind. Sorta like asking if there can be proof of the God of the Bible.

Asking if there can be proof of any gods that might exist...is substantially different.

Maybe it is time for you to explain the definition of "a god."
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From my post #372:


*When I use the word "GOD or gods" here, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST.
 
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