Confucianism takes on Buddhism & Daoism

Dutch Uncle said:
Different paths of which neither is necessarily better than the other. All have proved to work as social philosophies.

Not an expert, but application of any philosophy needs to fit the circumstances. A "read the room" type situation where introducing any new idea, be it Stoicism or Confucianism, must take into consideration the current social philosophy in order to be successfully spread throughout a society.

The reaction of the Chinese Confucianists to Buddhism being the thread example.

How many times in history have The Powers That Be (TPTB) attempted to stop out ideas? Restrict knowledge from those under them? China screens Google. Stalin and Mao both attempted to stop out religion. Even now both countries prosecute and attempt to erase the existence of different ideas.

In Antebellum South it was illegal to teach a slave to read. Why? Knowledge is power. New ideas scare old ideas and old thinking people.

https://americanexperience.si.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Literacy-as-Freedom.pdf
The Alabama Slave Code of 1833 included the following law “[S31] Any person who shall
attempt to teach any free person of color, or slave, to spell, read or write, shall upon conviction
thereof by indictment, be fined in a sum of not less than two
hundred fifty dollars, nor more than five hundred dollars.” At
this time, Harpers Weekly published an article that stated “the
alphabet is an abolitionist. If you would keep a people
enslaved refuse to teach them to read.” There was fear that
slaves who were literate could forge travel passes and escape.
These passes, signed by the slave owner, were required for
enslaved people traveling from one place to another and
usually included the date on which the slave was supposed to
return. There was also fear that writing could be a means of
communication that would make it easier to plan
insurrections and mass escapes.
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Nice work. In the grand scheme of things, China and East Asia has probably benefited on balance by having a syncretic mix of Confucianism, Buddhism, and Daoism. Humanity is genetically predisposed to be creative in thought and action, and we tend to stagnate under some kind of uniform, enforced philosophy or religious system.
 
AssHatZombie said:
no it wasn't.

it's accurate.
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Epicureanism was about the avoidance of pain, and a kind of philosophy of strict materialism that was at odds with Platonic thoughts about trancedence

It was not about getting wasted, gratuitous gluttony, and wanton self indulgence.
 
Cypress said:
Nice work. In the grand scheme of things, China and East Asia has probably benefited on balance by having a syncretic mix of Confucianism, Buddhism, and Daoism. Humanity is genetically predisposed to be creative in thought and action, and we tend to stagnate under some kind of uniform, enforced philosophy or religious system.
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Agreed. That was the idea of America; the great melting pot of people, cultures and knowledge to produce the greatest nation on the planet...which is did.

Now we seem to be facing a revolt by spoiled brats who think "we have enough people, culture and knowledge". They don't get it. Mostly due to a government that caters to the lowest denominator instead of maximizing the best Americans have to offer.

Diversity and exchanging ideas was at the foundation of our nation: https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/knowledge-power-quotation

Thomas Jefferson used the phrase in his correspondence on at least four occasions, each time in connection with the establishment of a state university in Virginia.

In an 1817 letter to George Ticknor, Jefferson equated knowledge with power, safety, and happiness:

[T]his last establishment [a state university] will probably be within a mile of Charlottesville, and four from Monticello, if the system should be adopted at all by our legislature who meet within a week from this time. my hopes however are kept in check by the ordinary character of our state legislatures, the members of which do not generally possess information enough to percieve the important truths, that knolege is power, that knolege is safety, and that knolege is happiness.

Knowledge is power, safety and happiness according to Jefferson and I agree. Other quotes were "there can be no stronger proof that knolege is power, and that ignorance is weakness", "if knolege is power we should look to it's advancement at home, where no resource of power will be unwanting."
 
Cypress said:
Epicureanism was about the avoidance of pain, and a kind of philosophy of strict materialism that was at odds with Platonic thoughts about trancedence

It was not about getting wasted, gratuitous gluttony, and wanton self indulgence.
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strict materialism is tied up with gluttony at the extreme end.

Do you believe buddhism and taoism have been effectively "taken on" in your little thread here?
 
AssHatZombie said:
strict materialism is tied up with gluttony at the extreme end.

Do you believe buddhism and taoism have been effectively "taken on" in your little thread here?
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Frat boys and party animals of the 21st century have twisted Epicurus into a message of wanton hedonism, keggers, block parties, and lascivious sexual energy.

That was not at all the message of classic Epicureanism.


As for the rest, your contributions on Buddhism and Daoism were uniformed, uninteresting, and frequently wrong.

I did appreciate the contributions of Celtic Guy and Dutch Uncle though, because they were making genuine efforts to seek some kind of truthful knowledge.
 
Cypress said:
Frat boys and party animals of the 21st century have twisted Epicurus into a message of wanton hedonism, keggers, block parties, and lascivious sexual energy.

That was not at all the message of classic Epicureanism.


As for the rest, your contributions on Buddhism and Daoism were uniformed, uninteresting, and frequently wrong.

I did appreciate the contributions of Celtic Guy and Dutch Uncle though, because they were making genuine efforts to seek some kind of truthful knowledge.
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Basically yes it was.

its so typical for you to appreciate the uninteresting content of the thread.

Confucians are also humorless and rigid.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Cypress said:
Epicureanism was about the avoidance of pain, and a kind of philosophy of strict materialism that was at odds with Platonic thoughts about trancedence

It was not about getting wasted, gratuitous gluttony, and wanton self indulgence.
Click to expand...
strict materialism is tied up with gluttony at the extreme end.

Do you believe buddhism and taoism have been effectively "taken on" in your little thread here?
Click to expand...

Agreed. Extremes always seem to end badly. Consider a benevolent dictator; more efficient than 535 idiots more interested in lining their pockets than in making the trains run on time. The problem is when the benevolent dictator passes all that power to his a spoiled brat. Not only are you correct about the extreme end, but the maxim absolute power corrupts absolutely. Another example of the extreme end.

Representative government is inefficient because fairness and the betterment of all deserves due consideration before enacting. This takes time and much discussion. Inefficient, but the best human form of government than the more efficient versions.

That said, there are two outlooks to consider on ancient thoughts about materialism: Our mortal bodies and the physicality of the Universe. The atheists believe "this is it". WYSIWYG. Materialistic. Once you die, you are dead.

The other form, as you aptly described, is people who focus on material pleasures and self-gratification. On the spirituality scale, some loner 25 year old masturbating in his basement apartment at his parents home is equal to the Russian Oligarch who just got his boat impounded. Both seek self-gratification and never discover the pleasure of pleasing others.

Your accusations of me being a "Simp" because I like women and do things to make them smile doesn't synch with me. You seem to be on an extreme and assume I'm on the other extreme end. IDK why.

That's an important distinction to you; you vs. the simps. I don't understand why, but from my end, life is to both enjoyed and explored. One supports the other. Getting to know someone was scary for me when I was young but, in the end, I really enjoyed meeting women. I highly recommend it to all single males. :thup:

TBH, Cypress will always know more about Epicureanism than me because, at this point in my life, I've learned the philosophy even if I don't know the history.

What would Epicurus think of the philosophy of "No Pain, No Gain"? IDK. I do agree with the philosophy even if I'm fuzzy on it's ancient roots. Historians like Cypress are not only fun to chat with but a valuable resource of historical knowledge.

Fredo; do you have any areas of history that catch your attention? When I was growing up, it was WWII aviation. Mostly the air war in Europe, but also the Pacific.
 
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Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. Extremes always seem to end badly. Consider a benevolent dictator; more efficient than 535 idiots more interested in lining their pockets than in making the trains run on time. The problem is when the benevolent dictator passes all that power to his a spoiled brat. Not only are you correct about the extreme end, but the maxim absolute power corrupts absolutely. Another example of the extreme end.

Representative government is inefficient because fairness and the betterment of all deserves due consideration before enacting. This takes time and much discussion. Inefficient, but the best human form of government than the more efficient versions.

That said, there are two outlooks to consider on ancient thoughts about materialism: Our mortal bodies and the physicality of the Universe. The atheists believe "this is it". WYSIWYG. Materialistic. Once you die, you are dead.

The other form, as you aptly described, is people who focus on material pleasures and self-gratification. On the spirituality scale, some loner 25 year old masturbating in his basement apartment at his parents home is equal to the Russian Oligarch who just got his boat impounded. Both seek self-gratification and never discover the pleasure of pleasing others.

Your accusations of me being a "Simp" because I like women and do things to make them smile doesn't synch with me. You seem to be on an extreme and assume I'm on the other extreme end. IDK why.

That's an important distinction to you; you vs. the simps. I don't understand why, but from my end, life is to both enjoyed and explored. One supports the other. Getting to know someone was scary for me when I was young but, in the end, I really enjoyed meeting women. I highly recommend it to all single males. :thup:

TBH, Cypress will always know more about Epicureanism than me because, at this point in my life, I've learned the philosophy even if I don't know the history.

What would Epicurus think of the philosophy of "No Pain, No Gain"? IDK. I do agree with the philosophy even if I'm fuzzy on it's ancient roots. Historians like Cypress are not only fun to chat with but a valuable resource of historical knowledge.

Fredo; do you have any areas of history that catch your attention? When I was growing up, it was WWII aviation. Mostly the air war in Europe, but also the Pacific.
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You're the one stuck on it.

and thanks for admitting you actually don't prefer democracy..

believing strongly in pain also sounds about right for you.

you're a human tragedy. a real pos, who blows smoke up his own ass all day long.
 
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AssHatZombie said:
Basically yes it was.

its so typical for you to appreciate the uninteresting content of the thread.

Confucians are also humorless and rigid.
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Master Kong loved dancing and poetry.

You will never know the true way of The Dao if your idea of the flourishing life is wanton hedonism and relentless pursuit of frivilous entertainment.
 
AssHatZombie said:
You're the one stuck on it.

and thanks for admitting you actually don't prefer democracy..

believing strongly in pain also sounds about right for you.

you're a human tragedy. a real pos, who blows smoke up his own ass all day long.
Click to expand...

Your choice. I'm a big believer in personal choices and respect those who both take chances and hold themselves accountable.

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