defining the atheist life....

Frank Apisa said:
So...the word "amaze" in your considered opinion means "without a maze?"
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:palm:

According to many atheists, the word "atheist" is a result of the etymological "a" Greek for without...prefixing "theist" meaning person who believes in a god...and results in "without a belief in a god."
THEY ARE WRONG.

First of all, the word "atheist" came into the English language BEFORE "theist"...so atheist could not have derived that way.
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Proof of that? BTW, how could have the word "atheist" come before "theist", or for that matter "gods"? In order for "atheism" to be coined, "theism" (or "gods") has also have to be coined first.

Agnostics are the true non-believers on the issue.
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That would be agnostic atheists.

People who use atheist...do have an active belief.
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Again, how do they have an "active belief"? Do you have an active belief that Santa Claus doesn't exist?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
the whole point of the original comment was that atheists have no guidance in shaping their moral standards.......for you to argue that their moral standards give them that guidance merely shows you have no clue what the discussion is about........now go back outside and play until supper......
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It is cute you think moral guidance has to come from religion.
 
Concart said:
So, that being said, here is MY stance:

There is no scientific evidence that God exists. There has never been a proven supernatural explanation for any observable phenomenon, therefore God does not need to exist to explain anything in our natural world. Therefore I do not believe that God exists. I really don't care what label you want to apply to that position. The commonly accepted term is atheist. Any other guess as to what my position is would be a completely inaccurate guess.
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Christianity invented the idea there had to be one and only one God. They added this God created the physical universe. Neither are true.
 
Concart said:
PMP can't be a decent person without a guidebook to tell him how to act. Even then, he is still obviously a horror of a person. If that's what his religion has crafted, I'll say no thanks and call it a day.
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ThatOwlWoman said:
Unfortunately you are right. Most of those here who loudly proclaim themselves Christians are poor representatives of that faith. If you were a moral being newly arrived here from another world and were looking over the banquet of religions on Earth, you would skip right by that one in favor of something else. On the other hand if you prefer your chosen faith to be a club that you can wield against others to show your alleged superiority, the Christianity of PMP, Stretch, Toxic, RB, etc. is for you. Same with the Buddhism of Dukka.
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more atheists telling people how we are inferior to them.......its all they have and they use it repeatedly........and Owl, who says it never happens, does it as well....
 
Last edited:
But that's what YOU are trying to do here -- claim that atheists are amoral
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nothing could be further from the truth......in fact I have specifically stated, many times, and again here that everyone has moral standards.......my point is that atheists are uniquely distinct in that they do not have a shared standard from which to start, unlike Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and anyone else that follows a religion......as you say, you may have been raised by religious people and carried their standards with you, but that proves rather than disproves my statement.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
nothing could be further from the truth......in fact I have specifically stated, many times, and again here that everyone has moral standards.......my point is that atheists are uniquely distinct in that they do not have a shared standard from which to start, unlike Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and anyone else that follows a religion......as you say, you may have been raised by religious people and carried their standards with you, but that proves rather than disproves my statement.....
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Do you need to fear God to not kill someone, for fear of punishment?
 
BidenPresident said:
Christianity invented the idea there had to be one and only one God. <snip>
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Monotheism existed in Judaism, Zoroastrianism, and the Egyptian cult of Aten long before Christianity.

There is even a question if Christianity is truly monotheistic. - the concept of the Trinity, the veneration of saints, the semi-divine nature of Mary mother of God can raise questions
 
BidenPresident said:
Christianity invented the idea there had to be one and only one God. They added this God created the physical universe. Neither are true.
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to be fair, the Jews believed it first.....the Christians and Muslims just agreed with them.......if you have some evidence it isn't true you should share it......because around 5 billion people believe otherwise......
 
AProudLefty said:
Proof of that? BTW, how could have the word "atheist" come before "theist", or for that matter "gods"? In order for "atheism" to be coined, "theism" (or "gods") has also have to be coined first.
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Take that up with history.

Here are the etymological citations:


theist (n.)1660s, from Greek theos "god" (from PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts) + -ist. The original senses was that later reserved to deist: "one who believes in a transcendent god but denies revelation." Later in 18c. theist was contrasted with deist, as believing in a personal God and allowing the possibility of revelation.

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=theist


atheist (n.)
1570s, "godless person, one who denies the existence of a supreme, intelligent being to whom moral obligation is due," from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" (see a- (3)) + theos "a god" (from PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts).


https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=atheist

As you can see, the word "atheist" came into the English language almost 100 years before "theist."






That would be agnostic atheists.
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Bullshit.



Again, how do they have an "active belief"? Do you have an active belief that Santa Claus doesn't exist?
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As I have said several times already, MOST (perhaps ALL) people who use the word "atheist" as a descriptor either BELIEVE there are no gods...or BELIEVE it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Are you saying you have neither of those "beliefs"...but you use "atheist" as a descriptor because you think you are cool?
 
Frank Apisa said:
Take that up with history.

Here are the etymological citations:


theist (n.)1660s, from Greek theos "god" (from PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts) + -ist. The original senses was that later reserved to deist: "one who believes in a transcendent god but denies revelation." Later in 18c. theist was contrasted with deist, as believing in a personal God and allowing the possibility of revelation.

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=theist


atheist (n.)
1570s, "godless person, one who denies the existence of a supreme, intelligent being to whom moral obligation is due," from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" (see a- (3)) + theos "a god" (from PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts).


https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=atheist

As you can see, the word "atheist" came into the English language almost 100 years before "theist."








Bullshit.





As I have said several times already, MOST (perhaps ALL) people who use the word "atheist" as a descriptor either BELIEVE there are no gods...or BELIEVE it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Are you saying you have neither of those "beliefs"...but you use "atheist" as a descriptor because you think you are cool?
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If a person comes out and actually say that there is no God and that he knows or believes it then he would be a militant atheist, like Richard Dawkins.

And you haven't answered my question. How can the term "atheist" in ANY language come BEFORE the term "theist" (or "gods") in ANY language?

If nobody have made a claim that there is a god, there wouldn't be atheists, will they?
 
AProudLefty said:
If a person comes out and actually say that there is no God and that he knows or believes it then he would be a militant atheist, like Richard Dawkins.
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Whatever.

If you use "atheist" as a descriptor, I ask you these two questions. If you choose to answer them, please be honest:

1) Do you "believe" there are no gods?

2) Do you "believes" it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one?


And you haven't answered my question. How can the term "atheist" in ANY language come BEFORE the term "theist" (or "gods") in ANY language?
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I have no idea...BUT IT DID HAPPEN IN ENGLISH.

YOU may say it cannot happen...but I trust the words of the etymologists more than I do yours on the matter...and THEY say it did happen in the English language.

If nobody have made a claim that there is a god, there wouldn't be atheists, will they?
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You seem to be convinced of that, Lefty. I was told many years ago that "atheism/atheist" came into the English language almost a century before the words "theist/theism." I checked it out in a couple of etymological dictionaries...and they ALL confirmed that.

If you have a citation that disputes that...please offer it and I will check it out.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Whatever.

If you use "atheist" as a descriptor, I ask you these two questions. If you choose to answer them, please be honest:

1) Do you "believe" there are no gods?
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No.

2) Do you "believes" it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one?
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It's impossible to determine the likelihood of that. We don't even have a concrete definition of God.

I have no idea...BUT IT DID HAPPEN IN ENGLISH.
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Why is it important that it happened in English? A lot of words came before other words. Big deal.

You seem to be convinced of that, Lefty. I was told many years ago that "atheism/atheist" came into the English language almost a century before the words "theist/theism." I checked it out in a couple of etymological dictionaries...and they ALL confirmed that.

If you have a citation that disputes that...please offer it and I will check it out.
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And I have given you a definition of "A-". That is undisputable.

a- (3)

prefix meaning "not, without," from Greek a-, an- "not" (the "alpha privative"), from PIE root *ne- "not" (source also of English un-).

In words from Greek, such as abysmal, adamant, amethyst; also partly nativized as a prefix of negation (asexual, amoral, agnostic). The ancient alpha privatum, denoting want or absence.

Greek also had an alpha copulativum, a- or ha-, expressing union or likeness, which is the a- expressing "together" in acolyte, acoustic, Adelphi, etc. It is from PIE root *sem- (1) "one; as one, together with."

https://www.etymonline.com/word/a-
 
AProudLefty said:
No.



It's impossible to determine the likelihood of that. We don't even have a concrete definition of God.
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Perhaps that question was not clear as written. Allow me to try it again:

DO YOU BELIEVE IT IS MORE LIKELY THAT NO GODS EXIST THAN THAT AT LEAST ONE DOES?

Why is it important that it happened in English? A lot of words came before other words. Big deal.
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It is important, because YOU said it could not happen.

But it did.

Just acknowledge that you were wrong. You'll feel better.


And I have given you a definition of "A-". That is undisputable.

a- (3)

prefix meaning "not, without," from Greek a-, an- "not" (the "alpha privative"), from PIE root *ne- "not" (source also of English un-).

In words from Greek, such as abysmal, adamant, amethyst; also partly nativized as a prefix of negation (asexual, amoral, agnostic). The ancient alpha privatum, denoting want or absence.

Greek also had an alpha copulativum, a- or ha-, expressing union or likeness, which is the a- expressing "together" in acolyte, acoustic, Adelphi, etc. It is from PIE root *sem- (1) "one; as one, together with."

https://www.etymonline.com/word/a-
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And if we were speaking Greek or if the word "atheist" came to us from the Greek...that would mean something.

But we are not speaking Greek...and the word did not come to us from the Greek. It came to us from the French...and means "a" (without) + "theos" (a god)...and means to be without a god.

Well...that is a denial of the existence of a god, because one cannot be without a god if there is a god.

IT DOES NOT MEAN WITHOUT A BELIEF IN A GOD.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Perhaps that question was not clear as written. Allow me to try it again:

DO YOU BELIEVE IT IS MORE LIKELY THAT NO GODS EXIST THAN THAT AT LEAST ONE DOES?
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And the answer is still the same - it's impossible.

Just acknowledge that you were wrong. You'll feel better.
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Wrong about what?


Let me ask you a question. If someone comes up to you and tells you that he saw a Bigfoot. What do you do or say?
 
: a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods : one who subscribes to or advocates atheism

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

:a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

(source: Oxford Languages)

The dictionary definitions clearly make the distinction between someone who disbelieves and someone who lacks belief. I fall in the latter category.
 
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