Definition of religion

Cypress said:
That doesn't really work because some aspects of world religions inward looking, and seek to transcend the mundane experience of politics and civil society.

The Christian monastic tradition and Daoism are inward looking, seek communion with God, the sacred, or the spirit the Dao apart from conventional civil structure.

At it's highest stage of development the Hindu or Buddhist mystic is going to seek separation from the conventional concerns of politics, civil society, and anything that qualifies as impermanence.
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I've always seen Christianity and most other modern religions as not only looking outward towards a deity or deities, but also as seeing humans as separate from the world that we live in and share with other beings. As though we are apart from creation, rather than part of it.
 
Either there is a GOD (or GODS)*...or there are no gods.

If there is a GOD (or are GODS)...the GOD(s) may set a standard which it requires to be met by any living organisms that arise in ITS creation...or the GOD (or GODS) may not set such a standard.

I, personally, do not know if there are no GODS...and neither does anyone else.

I, personally, do not know if there is at least one GOD. I suspect neither does anyone else. (If there is at least one GOD, it is at least possible someone, other than the GOD, knows there is.)

And I certainly do not know there is at least one GOD...and that the GOD has set up a standard which I, and my fellow living organisms, must meet.

Any of us can make a guess (essentially a blind guess) about any of those things...or we can simply acknowledge that we do not know and refuse to make a guess.

Blindly guessing that there is at least one GOD...and about the standards it sets...essentially is what religion IS.

Blindly guessing that there are no GODS...essentially is...uhhh...I don't know what the hell it is. It appears simply to be a blind guess that no gods exist.

I prefer to acknowledge that I do not know if any GODS exist or not...and that I do not want to make what is essentially a blind guess in either direction.

*(When I use the words "GOD or GODS" here, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST.)
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I've always seen Christianity and most other modern religions as not only looking outward towards a deity or deities, but also as seeing humans as separate from the world that we live in and share with other beings. As though we are apart from creation, rather than part of it.
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I agree, outward looking in the sense of communion with God and the search for the sacred.
The monks and monastery tradition are inward looking with respect to politics and conventional civil society, which was the basis of my disagreement.

As for humans being in this world but not of this world, I remember the Quakers telling me that humans are imbued with a divine light.
 
Cypress said:
Most advanced on Earth but probably neither adequate or omniscient enough to be able to cognitively grasp all of reality.
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Agreed....and I never said anything different. As Desmond Morris famously labeled us, we're "naked apes". Very smart simians. Smartest predators on the planet, but not smart enough to avoid poisoning our environment.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Agreed....and I never said anything different. As Desmond Morris famously labeled us, we're "naked apes". Very smart simians. Smartest predators on the planet, but not smart enough to avoid poisoning our environment.
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I don't know if humans as a species and as individuals are exceptionally smart and gifted, or whether it was an elite minority of exceptional humans who taught the rest of us concepts leading to civilization.

Probably less than one percent of humans can do calculus, build a bridge, design a cell phone from scratch, or have the metallurgy and engineering skills to build a rifle independently from scratch.

I have my doubts that if you dropped Trump or Biden into the Amazon forest with nothing but the clothes on their back, if they could even build a functioning bow and arrow.
 
Cypress said:
I agree, outward looking in the sense of communion with God and the search for the sacred.
The monks and monastery tradition are inward looking with respect to politics and conventional civil society, which was the basis of my disagreement.

As for humans being in this world but not of this world, I remember the Quakers telling me that humans are imbued with a divine light.
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Hmm. But do they recognize the connection that we have with all living beings we share this world with?
 
Cypress said:
I don't know if humans as a species and as individuals are exceptionally smart and gifted, or whether it was an elite minority of exceptional humans who taught the rest of us concepts leading to civilization.

Probably less than one percent of humans can do calculus, build a bridge, design a cell phone from scratch, or have the metallurgy and engineering skills to build a rifle independently from scratch.

I have my doubts that if you dropped Trump or Biden into the Amazon forest with nothing but the clothes on their back, if they could even build a functioning bow and arrow.
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There's a synergistic effect from human beings working together. Sure, it takes knowledge and training to design a bridge or a building, but how many engineers have built anything but models? Football quarterbacks and astronauts alike understand that it's a team effort.

There's also the standard IQ bell curve under which most human beings fall. The same human beings who do the work, both public and private, that produces the results we see in the modern world.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Hmm. But do they recognize the connection that we have with all living beings we share this world with?
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I'm not an expert in Quaker theology, but imo they are the highest quality and most consistently ethical Christian tradition out there, and I have no reason to believe they don't think humans have a profound connection with this world and other living things.
 
Cypress said:
Most advanced on Earth but probably neither adequate or omniscient enough to be able to cognitively grasp all of reality.
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Wouldn't it be wild if we found out that dolphins were, technically, smarter than humans but lacking opposable digits or even a particular need to develop technology they just appear to be kinda smart animals to us? Maybe they talk shit behind our backs :)

(I know it's unlikely but how would we really know the content of their minds if we can't really communicate with them. Just some fun stuff to think about. How about octopus cognition. Those things are creepy smart with a "brain" that looks nothing like ours. What if they are philosophers who can squeeze into any small space? :) )
 
Quincunx said:
Wouldn't it be wild if we found out that dolphins were, technically, smarter than humans but lacking opposable digits or even a particular need to develop technology they just appear to be kinda smart animals to us? Maybe they talk shit behind our backs :)

(I know it's unlikely but how would we really know the content of their minds if we can't really communicate with them. Just some fun stuff to think about. How about octopus cognition. Those things are creepy smart with a "brain" that looks nothing like ours. What if they are philosophers who can squeeze into any small space? :) )
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"On the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons."

--> Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
 
Doc Dutch said:
There's a synergistic effect from human beings working together. Sure, it takes knowledge and training to design a bridge or a building, but how many engineers have built anything but models? Football quarterbacks and astronauts alike understand that it's a team effort.

There's also the standard IQ bell curve under which most human beings fall. The same human beings who do the work, both public and private, that produces the results we see in the modern world.
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The Wisdom of the Mob, as I think they call it in sociology.
 
evince said:
At what age did you begin believing you were your own god?
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I'm guessing late teens to early 30s. :)

I'm also interested in the Bicameral Brain theory. There's a relation there to schizophrenia.

https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/schizophrenia-onset-symptoms
Schizophrenia usually takes hold after puberty. Most people are diagnosed in their late teens to early 30s.

What Is the Typical Age of Onset for Schizophrenia?
Men and women are equally likely to get this brain disorder, but guys tend to get it slightly earlier. On average, men are diagnosed in their late teens to early 20s. Women tend to get diagnosed in their late 20s to early 30s. People rarely develop schizophrenia before they're 12 or after they're 40.
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https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/28612
Bicameralism[Note 1] (the condition of being divided into "two-chambers") is a controversial hypothesis in psychology and neuroscience which argues that the human mind once operated in a state in which cognitive functions were divided between one part of the brain which appears to be "speaking", and a second part which listens and obeys—a bicameral mind, and that the evolutionary breakdown of this division gave rise to consciousness in humans. The term was coined by Julian Jaynes, who presented the idea in his 1976 book The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, wherein he made the case that a bicameral mentality was the normal and ubiquitous state of the human mind as recently as 3,000 years ago, near the end of the Mediterranean bronze age.
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https://www.inverse.com/article/142...rld-julian-jaynes-origin-of-consciousness-hbo
there-is-no-spoon-there-is-also-no-hallucination.png
 
Doc Dutch said:
Best on the planet. :D
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Just as those Federal Lynching KKK churchstate of hate fiefdom drug trafficking enforcement of SCOTUS Rehnquist diatribe Washington, D.C. born USA citizens are Islam for their national religion Christiananality Mohammed pedophilia tautology the past 20 some years holy trinity preyering continues in that dumb as....
 
Quincunx said:
Wouldn't it be wild if we found out that dolphins were, technically, smarter than humans but lacking opposable digits or even a particular need to develop technology they just appear to be kinda smart animals to us? Maybe they talk shit behind our backs :)
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Far+Side+Cows1.jpg


When you compare/evaluate two different computer systems, you have to specify all the components because one system will be better in some ways while the other computer will be better in others. Similarly, chimpanzees brains are much better than humans' brains in several ways, and far superior to Terry overall.

 
Quincunx said:
Wouldn't it be wild if we found out that dolphins were, technically, smarter than humans but lacking opposable digits or even a particular need to develop technology they just appear to be kinda smart animals to us? Maybe they talk shit behind our backs :)

(I know it's unlikely but how would we really know the content of their minds if we can't really communicate with them. Just some fun stuff to think about. How about octopus cognition. Those things are creepy smart with a "brain" that looks nothing like ours. What if they are philosophers who can squeeze into any small space? :) )
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^Reminds me of the story of Inky.

An enterprising octopus spotted his chance to escape from a New Zealand aquarium – and took it. Squeezing out from a gap at the top of his tank, the “inquisitive” octopus, Inky, slithered across the floor of the aquarium and down a seawater runoff pipe to Hawke’s Bay, and freedom.

“Octopus are very intelligent, very inquisitive and like to push the boundaries,” said Rob Yarrell, the manager of the National Aquarium of New Zealand.

“This particular one was very friendly and intelligent and obviously found a weak spot in the top of his tank.”

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/escapologist-octopus-new-zealand-aquarium/index.html
 
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