Eastern philosophy says the self is an illusion

Doc Dutch said:
Agreed on the agnostic position regarding "self" as "soul" and also on the normal human ability to have a concept of self and make decisions for themselves, as best they can, using reasoning.

OTOH, I understand why the mentally ill and the low IQ are unable to function in this manner. They often seek to blame others for their own actions. People who refuse to take responsibility for themselves seem to fall can fall into several categories. See examples below.

The bottom line is that, as this thread has demonstrated for weeks now, some people believe they are not responsible for their own thoughts and actions while some people do. I side with those who accept responsibility for my own life.

1. Low self-esteem. They know they are responsible but fear admitting it. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...001/when-someone-won-t-own-their-bad-behavior


2. People who don't believe they can change. https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/why_some_people_own_mistakes_and_others_dont


3. Mental health. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-control/201912/mental-health-and-control
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I admit it's an open philosophical question, but choice and free will seem self evident to me. And absent any compelling proof or evidence, I am going to trust my senses over mental masturbation.

One possibility is that if our conciousness is a projection of some quantum state, the many worlds quantum hypothesis states that when an observation is made, perhaps when a decision is made, all possible realities occur and branch off from each other.

There was even an episode it on Star Trek, where Worf was shifting through different quantum worlds!
 
ZenMode said:
Who chose one? What is the "I" you're referring to that was deliberating, considering, weighing pros/cons, etc?
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My brain makes decisions and chooses courses of action, whether or not I described it as "me", a lump of grey matter, or a network of neural connections.

Those are just definitional terms which do not determine functionality.
 
ZenMode said:
Agree on the pronoun comment. We use them because we have to have some method to refer to ourself in complex language.

When you say your brain made the decision. I assume you'd agree, based on past comments, that there is no self that is controlling the process your brain goes through to make a decision, right?
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Cypress needs to break on through from his brain to his Spirit!
 
Cypress said:
I admit it's an open philosophical question, but choice and free will seem self evident to me. And absent any compelling proof or evidence, I am going to trust my senses over mental masturbation.

One possibility is that if our conciousness is a projection of some quantum state, the many worlds quantum hypothesis states that when an observation is made, perhaps when a decision is made, all possible realities occur and branch off from each other.

There was even an episode it on Star Trek, where Worf was shifting through different quantum worlds!
Click to expand...

While there are clearly philosophical questions about why humans have a sense of self, normal people have no doubt they have one as exemplified in Cogito, ergo sum.

Those who deny they are responsible for themselves, that they have a unique identity, are not on the normal curve as proved by several psychological links posted on this and related threads.

While multiple existences may exist, like time, we only experience one at a time. On a related note, most people do have the power to change their lives for the better. The entire idea of going to college, of getting married and raising a family or entering a profession is all about seeking to change their lives for a better future. This, by itself, is proof they are planning ahead and taking responsibility for their own future.

The people who can't or are unable to seek future change are not on the normal part of the human bell curve.
 
BidenPresident said:
Fuck religion.
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Purely out of curiosity, which religion is that?

I was unaware of a religion founded primarily on the practice of sexual physical intimacy.

If they felt that a common biological function

could be elevated to the level of a way of life,

they must know some very unique techniques.

I wish that I had heard about them when I was young.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Purely out of curiosity, which religion is that?

I was unaware of a religion founded primarily on the practice of sexual physical intimacy.

If they felt that a common biological function

could be elevated to the level of a way of life,

they must know some very unique techniques.

I wish that I had heard about them when I was young.
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Curiosity deserves no response.
 
Doc Dutch said:
While there are clearly philosophical questions about why humans have a sense of self, normal people have no doubt they have one as exemplified in Cogito, ergo sum.

Those who deny they are responsible for themselves, that they have a unique identity, are not on the normal curve as proved by several psychological links posted on this and related threads.

While multiple existences may exist, like time, we only experience one at a time. On a related note, most people do have the power to change their lives for the better. The entire idea of going to college, of getting married and raising a family or entering a profession is all about seeking to change their lives for a better future. This, by itself, is proof they are planning ahead and taking responsibility for their own future.

The people who can't or are unable to seek future change are not on the normal part of the human bell curve.
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Sounds right.

I agree with Aristotle, Confucious, Jesus, Lao Tzu, and Plato that humans do have, and have always had, the freedom to make moral choices.

Nothing in my psychological, emotional, or physical experience leads me to believe that isn't true. It takes more than mental gymnastics to convince me that I don't have any choice in life. I would have to see some kind of compelling scientific proof and evidence of that.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
But he [BP] did, Margot.

He suggested the existence of a religion based on sex

but now he refuses to offer further detail.
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BP has a feminine personality and, yes, she doesn't discuss much. She makes statements, attacks those who disagree and leaves.
 
Cypress said:
Sounds right.

I agree with Aristotle, Confucious, Jesus, Lao Tzu, and Plato that humans do have, and have always had, the freedom to make moral choices.

Nothing in my psychological, emotional, or physical experience leads me to believe that isn't true. It takes more than mental gymnastics to convince me that I don't have any choice in life. I would have to see some kind of compelling scientific proof and evidence of that.
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While I agree with them too, the fact remains they assert that people have souls. There is no evidence that human beings have a supernatural component to their ability to make conscious choices.

IMO, a person is deficient in some manner to not be able to choose their own path.
 
One of these days I expect Cypress to put all his thoughts together and show up here with
"I got it"!
 
One of these days I expect that the mentally ill will have limited access to Internet forums through Nanny software.

Our nations needs better mental health care and supporting legislation.
 
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