Eastern philosophy says the self is an illusion

Cypress said:
Comparing a poster to Gaugin in Tahiti is a reference completely out of left field.
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He posted "Gaugin in Tahiti" for a very specific reason. I have no doubt he was chuckling to himself thinking no one would get it because Perry believes he's smarter than everyone else.

IMO, that's another indication of his mental faculties. Unless he's done it before, I suspect he'll only get a warning.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...onality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662
Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental health condition in which people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance. They need and seek too much attention and want people to admire them. People with this disorder may lack the ability to understand or care about the feelings of others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence, they are not sure of their self-worth and are easily upset by the slightest criticism.

A narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of life, such as relationships, work, school or financial matters. People with narcissistic personality disorder may be generally unhappy and disappointed when they're not given the special favors or admiration that they believe they deserve. They may find their relationships troubled and unfulfilling, and other people may not enjoy being around them.
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Telocollinite said:
This really has you upset, hasn't it, Doc?
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No, Perry, but you calling someone a pedophile is a rule violation.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?2-Rules-of-the-Board!&p=2#post2

12(b) - No sexual comments relating to minors. With the exception of news articles about the subject, or a mature discussion involving stats, how it effects people etc. or in regard to political public figures. (examples, video of Biden with children in the Senate, Trump images with his daughter in his lap, etc. stuff like that. If the political figure is a member of this board, you cannot bring it here though...) We especially DO NOT want ANY mention in ANY context about suggesting encounters with another member and a child, or with yourself and another poster's child, nor any mention of underage children of any members being sexually assaulted, sexually molested, raped, members being accused of pedophilia, suggesting members may have been molested as a kid, having vague references to any of the former, having a "clever" play on words with a wink and a nod that might suggest any of the former, any slight references, WE WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF IT. Do not try to approach the line to test us to see what one can get away with, if you approach the line, chances are you will not receive the benefit of the doubt.
 
Doc Dutch said:
He posted "Gaugin in Tahiti" for a very specific reason. I have no doubt he was chuckling to himself thinking no one would get it because Perry believes he's smarter than everyone else.

IMO, that's another indication of his mental faculties. Unless he's done it before, I suspect he'll only get a warning.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...onality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662
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If anyone wrote that I was like Gaugin in Tahiti, I wouldn't know what to make of it and would probably consider it one of the strangest insults I've ever heard of.
 
Cypress said:
If anyone wrote that I was like Gaugin in Tahiti, I wouldn't know what to make of it and would probably consider it one of the strangest insults I've ever heard of.
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Exactly. It's a very strange insult which is why I Googled it. When it turned out he was a notorious pedophile in Tahiti living with two 15 year old girls, then the reasoning for Perry's personal attack became clear.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/18/arts/design/gauguin-national-gallery-london.html
Is It Time Gauguin Got Canceled?
Museums are reassessing the legacy of an artist who had sex with teenage girls and called the Polynesian people he painted “savages.”
“Is it time to stop looking at Gauguin altogether?”

That’s the startling question visitors hear on the audio guide as they walk through the “Gauguin Portraits” exhibition at the National Gallery in London. The show, which runs through Jan. 26, focuses on Paul Gauguin’s depictions of himself, his friends and fellow artists, and of the children he fathered and the young girls he lived with in Tahiti.

The standout portrait in the exhibition is “Tehamana Has Many Parents” (1893). It pictures Gauguin’s teenage lover, holding a fan.

The artist “repeatedly entered into sexual relations with young girls, ‘marrying’ two of them and fathering children,” reads the wall text. “Gauguin undoubtedly exploited his position as a privileged Westerner to make the most of the sexual freedoms available to him.”
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Doc Dutch said:
Exactly. It's a very strange insult which is why I Googled it. When it turned out he was a notorious pedophile in Tahiti living with two 15 year old girls, then the reasoning for Perry's personal attack became clear.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/18/arts/design/gauguin-national-gallery-london.html
Is It Time Gauguin Got Canceled?
Museums are reassessing the legacy of an artist who had sex with teenage girls and called the Polynesian people he painted “savages.”
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I didn't know Gaugin was so morally depraved.
 
Cypress has issues with Mason communicating with God?
Is it just Mason or every Holy Spirit filled Christian.
For someone who claims to be well read,he certainly has issues with believers!
 
Doc Dutch said:
No, Perry, but you calling someone a pedophile is a rule violation.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?2-Rules-of-the-Board!&p=2#post2

12(b) - No sexual comments relating to minors. With the exception of news articles about the subject, or a mature discussion involving stats, how it effects people etc. or in regard to political public figures. (examples, video of Biden with children in the Senate, Trump images with his daughter in his lap, etc. stuff like that. If the political figure is a member of this board, you cannot bring it here though...) We especially DO NOT want ANY mention in ANY context about suggesting encounters with another member and a child, or with yourself and another poster's child, nor any mention of underage children of any members being sexually assaulted, sexually molested, raped, members being accused of pedophilia, suggesting members may have been molested as a kid, having vague references to any of the former, having a "clever" play on words with a wink and a nod that might suggest any of the former, any slight references, WE WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF IT. Do not try to approach the line to test us to see what one can get away with, if you approach the line, chances are you will not receive the benefit of the doubt.
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I didn’t call you that.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Is there anyone among us who has not awakened on a miserable morning
and fervently wished that his or her self was merely an illusion
that could be dismissed at will?

I would have to suspect that in our present society,
that would describe at minimum half of the mornings
for most aware people.
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Humans who have freed themselves from the slavery of conventional standards of judgement and desire can no longer be made to suffer.
That is a lesson I tried to cultivate from The Zhuangzi, a book in the Daoist canon.


I didn't see that knowledge in any physics, chemistry, or biology textbooks I ever had.
 
Cypress said:
Humans who have freed themselves from the slavery of conventional standards of judgement and desire can no longer be made to suffer.
That is a lesson I tried to cultivate from The Zhuangzi, a book in the Daoist canon.


I didn't see that knowledge in any physics, chemistry, or biology textbooks I ever had.
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I've never been sure what constitutes "conventional standards of judgement and desire" since humans, to me,
appear so radically dissimilar to one another.

Convention aside, however, people do have desire,
I suspect that it's different for each person,
and the extent to which one is able to fulfill one's desires
is directly related to the value of one's life experience.

Life isn't a net-positive experience to anybody whose rewards
do not adequately compensate that person's travails.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I've never been sure what constitutes "conventional standards of judgement and desire" since humans, to me,
appear so radically dissimilar to one another.

Convention aside, however, people do have desire,
I suspect that it's different for each person,
and the extent to which one is able to fulfill one's desires
is directly related to the value of one's life experience.

Life isn't a net-positive experience to anybody whose rewards
do not adequately compensate that person's travails.
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Most of our lives involve stress related to status, money, reputation, material possession, relationships, desire, fear , all manner of gain and reward incentives.
 
Cypress said:
Most of our lives involve stress related to status, money, reputation, material possession, relationships, desire, fear , all manner of gain and reward incentives.
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What kind of life involves no concern about money, material possessions, desire, etc?
What constitutes the rewards in such a life?
Would that many people, regardless of their other differences, be mentally configured to find value in life without these things?
I'd personally find none, but I've never presumed to speak for others.
 
Cypress said:
If anyone wrote that I was like Gaugin in Tahiti, I wouldn't know what to make of it and would probably consider it one of the strangest insults I've ever heard of.
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Here's the explanation:

1. I am not a fan of many of the Impressionists.
2. I dislike Gaugin's most famous set of paintings from his years in Tahiti (they are bland and uninteresting)
3. Doc said he had "talents" so I just made a joke that he was like Gaugin's worst era if Gaugin hung out outside a pot shop painting the people he saw coming out.

I honestly had no idea about Gaugin's disgusting behavior but now I do. I will make sure to never reference Gaugin. But that's not a problem since I'm not much of a fan of the iimpressionists.

It's pretty innocent overall.
 
Cypress said:
Humans who have freed themselves from the slavery of conventional standards of judgement and desire can no longer be made to suffer.
That is a lesson I tried to cultivate from The Zhuangzi, a book in the Daoist canon.


I didn't see that knowledge in any physics, chemistry, or biology textbooks I ever had.
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And the stuff you DID learn from physics, chemistry and biology cannot be as easily ignored as the stuff in the first paragraph.

I am of the firm opinion that anyone who tells you they have "mastered" their "desires" or other thoughts is probably lying to themselves and you. I think the real value comes in not acting on those thoughts but not thinking about an elephant is not that effective.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
What kind of life involves no concern about money, material possessions, desire, etc?
What constitutes the rewards in such a life?
Would that many people, regardless of their other differences, be mentally configured to find value in life without these things?
I'd personally find none, but I've never presumed to speak for others.
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We tend to have first world problems.

Money is important to live.

Stress about money is a kind of slavery that can be managed for the most part.

Materiel possession really isn't as important as the capitalist overlords of the consumer economy have trained us to think.

As long as your conscience is clear, navigating relationship problems is reasonably manageable.

Grief is a reality, but it can be held in perspective

Wrath, hate, and anger are poisons which have to be recognized and managed through a program of self knowledge and discipline
 
Cypress said:
Wrath and anger are poisons which have to be recognized and managed through a program of self knowledge and discipline
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In the field of Mindfulness you can observe your thoughts and treat them with some degree of "distance". But the goal is NOT to eliminate thoughts. The goal is to be able to control the power one gives those thoughts.

In some anxiety disorders the portion of the brain responsible for "threat assessment" runs incorrectly.

Our brains are the same brains that helped our early ancestors survive but the circuitry is no longer needed for those kinds of threats. Our brain still gives precedence to threats, real or imaginary. One cannot really CONTROL those thoughts, but what is taught to these people is how to ASSESS, OBSERVE the thoughts and figure out how to rationally respond to the thought. They are taught that just because a thought has been had does not mean it has "importance".

This is where mindfulness comes into play. This is the discipline of accepting that thoughts happen, but to be able to observe them dispassionately and not give them the power that the brain wishes to grant them.
 
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