Firing into Civilians - Israel isn't going after Hamas

[Yakuda]

Yep, it is the Final Solution in action.

So it appears

 

[IBDaMann]

Yes let's clear it up. Where should the Jews go?

Wrong topic. Start a thread for it if you wish.

 

[Yakuda]

Wrong topic. Start a thread for it if you wish.

No its precisely the only question that matters. Where should the Jews go? You clearly don't want them to defend themselves so you either want them dead or you what them to leave. Where should they go?

 

[IBDaMann]

You said the Arabs in Gaza are not part of or supporting Hamas.

I don't recall writing that. I believe that Hamas is popular in Gaza. Are you under the impression that rooting on Hamas is a crime?

Terrorism is bad. Do you really need to be told that?

I do not need to be told that. My position is that it is wrong to kill living humans who have not committed any crime. Why do you disagree?

Firing rockets into civilian neighborhoods unprovoked as the Arabs in Gaza do continuously is a crime against humanity.

Absolutely. Anybody who does such a thing commits a crime against humanity. So why do you excuse the IDF when they do it? [Hint: any such excuse will constitute a "special pleading" fallacy. You should learn what that is].

If it is wrong for Hamas, it is wrong for the IDF. If it is perfectly acceptable behavior for the IDF, it is perfectly acceptable behavior for Hamas.

This is where your bullshit falls apart.

You don't even know what my position is. You just decided to follow Yakuda's lead and push for the eradication of Palestinian civilians, and to attack anyone who even insinuates that murdering civilians, as Hamas did, is wrong. You allowed Yakuda and TA Gardner to pull you over to the wrong side of the morality fence. They are racist fucks who consider Palenstinians to be sub-human, and now they have you supporting them.

You depend on the fiction that the Arabs are innocent.

I spoke too soon. You are a racist fuck. You don't simply HATE Palestinians, you HATE Arabs. Wow.

Yes, there are many innocent Arabs and I don't want to see them killed just because they are Arabs.

They are not.

So finish that thought. Say it ... state for the record that they deserve to die. State unequivocally that Arabs are guilty, of what doesn't matter, and that the IDF should kill as many as possible and save everybody a lot of time and trouble. Say it.

I push those who support those in Gaza to show them opposing Hamas to prove the point that even in America - they are 100% behind Hamas.

So answer the question. What crime is that? When Barcelona plays against Real Madrid, the Real Madrid fans, even the ones in America, are 100% behind Real Madrid. What should their punishment be?

You picked your team as well. You have joined Team Israel and you remain 100% behind Israel, even to the point of justifying war crimes that are exactly what Hamas did, it's just that Israel's attacks are more numerous and have killed orders of magnitude more. You bitch when your team is fouled but you never believe that your players ever deserve the yellow cards they receive.

There is no distinction between Hamas and the so-called "Palestinians." They are one and the same.

You are a racist fuck. @ Into the Night, you should not be supporting this.

They brutally attacked without provocation.

Who? Hamas or the IDF? Nevermind, they both did, and many civilians died, but the Israelis are way out ahead in producing body count.

Again the bullshit of "that wasn't them it was Hamas" has collapsed under the weight of the evidence.

Nope. What has collapsed is any presumption that you aren't a racist fuck.

Those in Gaza are no more innocent than the people of Dresden in WWII building bombers and munitions.

So, even the children are not innocent because they are Arabs, and that stink just can't be washed away, right? The IDF has a military need to kill them, right?

The opposite of war is not peace. The opposite of war is slavery - sometimes annihilation.

You are raving incoherently. @ Into the Night, is this your position?

Israel fights for their survival.

Nope. Israel would be attacking Iran if that were true. If Israel were fighting just to practice bombing civilians for merely being Arab/Muslim then you'd see them limiting their fighting to Gaza and killing thousands of Palestinians.

Oh, wait a minute, that's what they are doing. Well, puzzle solved.

As the only functioning democracy in the region, it is overwhelmingly in our interest to support them

Sure. I support Israel. I will also demand that any and all Israeli war crimes be tried.

 

[IBDaMann]

No its precisely the only question that matters.

It's the wrong topic. I don't think they should go anywhere.

Where should the Jews go? You clearly don't want them to defend themselves

Something that is false cannot be "clear." You joined Team Israel and promptly forgot how to read. Israel can and should defend themselves ... without committing heinous war crimes. Recognizing Israel's right to defend itself is not justification for the IDF to commit atrocities.

In the future, don't assign bogus positions to me.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I don't recall writing that. I believe that Hamas is popular in Gaza. Are you under the impression that rooting on Hamas is a crime?

Not a crime, an act of war.

I do not need to be told that. My position is that it is wrong to kill living humans who have not committed any crime. Why do you disagree?

But if 1400 people are brutally murdered by terrorists, well no harm, no foul.

Absolutely. Anybody who does such a thing commits a crime against humanity. So why do you excuse the IDF when they do it? [Hint: any such excuse will constitute a "special pleading" fallacy. You should learn what that is].

I get it, you hate JOOOOZZZ.

The fact is that the IDF didn't do it - the Arabs in Gaza went to a concert and indiscriminately butchered people with no provocation other than their hatred of humanity and life.

If it is wrong for Hamas, it is wrong for the IDF. If it is perfectly acceptable behavior for the IDF, it is perfectly acceptable behavior for Hamas.

The IDF didn't go into Gaza and murder 1400 people going to a concert. You are engaging in a false equivalence fallacy. Do you know what that is.

You don't even know what my position is.

You've spent 21 pages making perfectly clear what your position is - and it's obscene.

Hey, you don't really support the slaughter of Jews, but it's done, so just let it go - right?

You just decided to follow Yakuda's lead and push for the eradication of Palestinian civilians, and to attack anyone who even insinuates that murdering civilians, as Hamas did, is wrong.

Now you're just lying, I posted nothing of the sort.

You allowed Yakuda and TA Gardner to pull you over to the wrong side of the morality fence. They are racist fucks who consider Palenstinians to be sub-human, and now they have you supporting them.

LOL

I make my own choices.

I spoke too soon. You are a racist fuck. You don't simply HATE Palestinians, you HATE Arabs. Wow.

I said nothing about hating Arabs. You are projecting your Antisemitism onto me.

What I said is there is no such thing as "Palestinians." There is no Palestinian language - they speak Arabic. There is no Palestinian features, they are Arabic. There is no Palestinian culture, it is Arabic. There is no such thing as "Palestinians."

Yes, there are many innocent Arabs and I don't want to see them killed just because they are Arabs.

Most Arabs don't live in Gaza and have nothing to do with Hamas or the terrorist attack on Israel.

You are a racist fuck, lumping all Arabs together like that.

So finish that thought. Say it ... state for the record that they deserve to die. State unequivocally that Arabs are guilty, of what doesn't matter, and that the IDF should kill as many as possible and save everybody a lot of time and trouble. Say it.

You are rather childish.

A man once came up behind me and slapped me on the back of the head.

I put him is the hospital for his effort. Was that wrong? I mean, the slap was only going to hurt for a few hours, yet I beat the holy fuck out of him. No, it wasn't wrong because an unprovoked attack MUST be met with an overwhelming response.

So answer the question. What crime is that? When Barcelona plays against Real Madrid, the Real Madrid fans, even the ones in America, are 100% behind Real Madrid. What should their punishment be?

You're babbling incoherently.

You picked your team as well. You have joined Team Israel and you remain 100% behind Israel, even to the point of justifying war crimes that are exactly what Hamas did, it's just that Israel's attacks are more numerous and have killed orders of magnitude more. You bitch when your team is fouled but you never believe that your players ever deserve the yellow cards they receive.

So it's a war crime to respond when an enemy launches a surprise attack?

It was a war crime when America went to war with Japan over Pearl Harbor, we should have surrendered.

You demand idiocy.

You are a racist fuck. @ Into the Night, you should not be supporting this.

You are a Jew hater. Simple as that.

Who? Hamas or the IDF? Nevermind, they both did, and many civilians died, but the Israelis are way out ahead in producing body count.

More lies. The IDF did not go into Gaza and slaughter and rape innocents and then drag their naked bodies through the street.

Just because you hate Jews doesn't make what Hamas did alright.

Nope. What has collapsed is any presumption that you aren't a racist fuck.

Nonsense.

I've said nothing racist, you're just an Antisemite.

So, even the children are not innocent because they are Arabs, and that stink just can't be washed away, right? The IDF has a military need to kill them, right?

Stick to what I post rather than your sick fantasy.

The ones who beheaded babies are your Hamas buddies.

You are raving incoherently. @ Into the Night, is this your position?

ROFL

Yes, it was exepected that you would be unfamiliar with Sun Tzu. It is truly sad that you can't grasp the truth of it. Oh, I added "annihilate."

Nope. Israel would be attacking Iran if that were true. If Israel were fighting just to practice bombing civilians for merely being Arab/Muslim then you'd see them limiting their fighting to Gaza and killing thousands of Palestinians.

Iran no doubt has a lot of blame, but it was the people of Gaza who attacked. It was the people of Gaza dancing in the streets after the attack. It is the people of Gaza who must pay for the war THEY started.

Oh, wait a minute, that's what they are doing. Well, puzzle solved.


Sure. I support Israel. I will also demand that any and all Israeli war crimes be tried.

Define an "Israeli war crime?"

Responding to an attack is not a crime. Face it, you just hate Jews.

 

[IBDaMann]

Not a crime, an act of war.

So, your irrational, die-hard support for Team Israel means characterizing the cheering of civilian-killers as an "act of war" ... as long as it's not Israel who is killing the civilians. When Israel kills civilians in the same manner, suddenly you apply special pleading and refer to it as "fighting to survive."

Your argument is dismissed as absurd and your racism is rejected as inhuman.

But if 1400 people are brutally murdered by terrorists, well no harm, no foul.

I wonder how brave you would appear if you couldn't assign bogus positions to me in order to have something to attack. You're a coward. You jumped on board the Team Israel bandwagon because you are a racist fuck and now you realize that you have adopted an indefensible position and you can only assign bogus positions to those who are pointing out racist HATE.

Once again, it is wrong for anyone to kill living humans who have not committed any crime. It is wrong for Hamas and it is wrong for the IDF. Explain why you see it as wrong for everyone in the world except for Israelis [your i.e. special pleading].

I get it, you hate JOOOOZZZ.

Clearly, there is no rational discussion to be had with you. You allowed yourself to be lured over to the racist immorality side of the fence and now all you have are bogus positions to assign to others as a distraction.

The fact is that the IDF didn't do it

The IDF is killing innocent civilians every day. They just finally killed one of the Hamas leaders they had been seeking ... by firing a rocket into a building he entered, without any concern for the hundreds of civilians that were already in that building. They had the Hamas leader trapped, and the IDF could have evacuated the civilians and then apprehended the leader ... but NO. The IDF decided to not risk letting the innocent civilians inside that building survive so they quickly fired a rocket into the building, killing everyone inside. There are no words for this. When this is over, I will be one of the many voices demanding accountability for this attack and all the others carried out by the IDF that should never have occurred. Hundreds of Palestinians dead, unnecessarily, in a matter of seconds.

the Arabs in Gaza went to a concert and indiscriminately butchered people with no provocation other than their hatred of humanity and life.

Not "the Arabs" but rather "some Arabs." Some Israelis in Israel went to Gaza and indiscriminately butchered people who never provoked them, for no reason other than their hatred of humanity and life.

If it's wrong for Hamas it's wrong for the IDF.

The IDF didn't go into Gaza and murder 1400 people going to a concert.

The IDF entered Gaza and murdered 5,200+ people just living their lives, having never attacked anyone, many of whom were very young children.

You are engaging in a false equivalence fallacy.

Incorrect. The equivalence is there. The IDF is no better than Hamas terrorists. I don't care that Israel is your team. You chose to cheer on killers of innocent civilians, which you happen to claim is an act of war.

You've spent 21 pages making perfectly clear what your position is - and it's obscene.

Yes, but let's state it for others who are just tuning in: I consider war crimes to be unacceptable, no matter who commits them. I demand full accountability for all atrocities committed by everyone. You consider this obscene because "everyone" includes "Israelis, and you can't tolerate Israelis ever having to answer for their war crimes.

Hey, you don't really support the slaughter of Jews, but it's done, so just let it go - right?

Nope. That is not my position. All those responsible for the killings at the music festival, for example, should be held accountable. Do you have any other bogus positions you wish to assign to me.

Now you're just lying, I posted nothing of the sort.

Yes. You repeatedly insist that all Palestinian civilians are Hamas terrorists because they are Arabs. This would have been obvious if you had including the posting chain instead of omitting it. There is no rational discussion to be had with you. All you have are bogus position assignments and other dishonesty.

LOL I make my own choices.

Have you considered perhaps letting someone else make a few good choices for you as a hedge?

 

[Yakuda]

It's the wrong topic. I don't think they should go anywhere.


Something that is false cannot be "clear." You joined Team Israel and promptly forgot how to read. Israel can and should defend themselves ... without committing heinous war crimes. Recognizing Israel's right to defend itself is not justification for the IDF to commit atrocities.

In the future, don't assign bogus positions to me.

You may not want them to go anywhere but Hamas sure as shit does....to extinction

BTW in the future I'll do as I damned well feel like doing.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So, your irrational, die-hard support for Team Israel means characterizing the cheering of civilian-killers as an "act of war" ... as long as it's not Israel who is killing the civilians. When Israel kills civilians in the same manner, suddenly you apply special pleading and refer to it as "fighting to survive."

So, your irrational, die-hard support for Team Hamas means characterizing brutal savagery by terrorists as no different than responding to an unprovoked attack. You apply false equivalence and claim "They did it too!"

Your argument is dismissed as absurd and your racism is rejected as inhuman.

You have no argument, only your Antisemitism.

I wonder how brave you would appear if you couldn't assign bogus positions to me in order to have something to attack. You're a coward. You jumped on board the Team Israel bandwagon because you are a racist fuck and now you realize that you have adopted an indefensible position and you can only assign bogus positions to those who are pointing out racist HATE.

Assigning bogus positions, such as calling you a "racist fuck" because there is no rational counter argument? Oh wait, that would be you doing that.

Once again, it is wrong for anyone to kill living humans who have not committed any crime. It is wrong for Hamas and it is wrong for the IDF. Explain why you see it as wrong for everyone in the world except for Israelis [your i.e. special pleading].

What a steaming load of shit.

Israel has a responsibility, a DUTY to respond to the vicious attack by your team. To do nothing, as you demand, would be suicidal and insane.

Clearly, there is no rational discussion to be had with you. You allowed yourself to be lured over to the racist immorality side of the fence and now all you have are bogus positions to assign to others as a distraction.

The irony of YOU calling someone else a "racist."

What is your hatred of Jews based on?

The IDF is killing innocent civilians every day. They just finally killed one of the Hamas leaders they had been seeking ... by firing a rocket into a building he entered, without any concern for the hundreds of civilians that were already in that building.

You're engaging in special pleading for your Hamas allies.

They had the Hamas leader trapped, and the IDF could have evacuated the civilians and then apprehended the leader ... but NO. The IDF decided to not risk letting the innocent civilians inside that building survive so they quickly fired a rocket into the building, killing everyone inside. There are no words for this. When this is over, I will be one of the many voices demanding accountability for this attack and all the others carried out by the IDF that should never have occurred. Hundreds of Palestinians dead, unnecessarily, in a matter of seconds.

ROFL

What moronic foolishness.

Your buddies started a war. Israel gave civilians THREE WEEKS to move out of the war zone. Most reports say that the reason they did is because YOUR BUDDIES in Hamas stopped them using force of arms.

Not "the Arabs" but rather "some Arabs." Some Israelis in Israel went to Gaza and indiscriminately butchered people who never provoked them, for no reason other than their hatred of humanity and life.

Got it, "Some people did something."

If it's wrong for Hamas it's wrong for the IDF.

Agreed. If the IDF attacks a concert, rapes women, and beheads babies that will be a serious issue.

Of course they haven't. You're just trying to excuse what your terrorist buddies did with a false equivalence fallacy.

The IDF entered Gaza and murdered 5,200+ people just living their lives, having never attacked anyone, many of whom were very young children.

That's a flat out lie.

Gaza invaded Israel and started a war with their action.

Would you lie that we "murdered" 3 million Germans in WWII? How deep does your hypocrisy run?

Incorrect. The equivalence is there. The IDF is no better than Hamas terrorists.

Because they are Jews and you hate them? So attacking a CONCERT with young people, raping hundreds, dragging their naked bodies through the streets, beheading babies in their cribs is okay, because they're only Jews?

The dishonest attempt to equate a MILITARY response to this horrendous attack to an unprovoked terrorist attack is obscene.

"Never Again" means that when you do this kind of shit, you're getting your ass kicked.

I don't care that Israel is your team. You chose to cheer on killers of innocent civilians, which you happen to claim is an act of war.

Says the fool cheering on terrorists.

Yes, but let's state it for others who are just tuning in: I consider war crimes to be unacceptable, no matter who commits them. I demand full accountability for all atrocities committed by everyone. You consider this obscene because "everyone" includes "Israelis, and you can't tolerate Israelis ever having to answer for their war crimes.

So you would give Hamas a stern talking to?

Meanwhile the Jews must give up their homes and country.

I mean come on, Muslims only control 99% of the land mass in the middle east. The GREEDY JEWS refuse to give them the other 1% - NO FAIR!

Nope. That is not my position. All those responsible for the killings at the music festival, for example, should be held accountable. Do you have any other bogus positions you wish to assign to me.


Yes. You repeatedly insist that all Palestinian civilians are Hamas terrorists because they are Arabs. This would have been obvious if you had including the posting chain instead of omitting it. There is no rational discussion to be had with you. All you have are bogus position assignments and other dishonesty.

Hamas is the government of Gaza.

Gaza went to war with Israel.

This is no different than Pearl Harbor or 9-11 (though I suspect you were on the other side for 9-11 as well)

Have you considered perhaps letting someone else make a few good choices for you as a hedge?

You offer obscenity and idiocy.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yo Ibda, is this a buddy of yours, Allahu Akbar?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1719665588228751481

 

[Yakuda]

Yo Ibda, is this a buddy of yours, Allahu Akbar?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1719665588228751481

This why there is no good reason for Israel to release it's restraint on the rabid dog that is Hamas.

 

[IBDaMann]

You may not want them to go anywhere but Hamas sure as shit does....to extinction

You should learn to stay on topic, and to avoid jumping around all over the place.

BTW in the future I'll do as I damned well feel like doing.

I can see that, and if all you can do is assign bogus positions so you'll at least have something to attack, you won't let dishonesty stay you from your appointed rounds.

Enjoy.

 

[Yakuda]

You should learn to stay on topic, and to avoid jumping around all over the place.


I can see that, and if all you can do is assign bogus positions so you'll at least have something to attack, you won't let dishonesty stay you from your appointed rounds.

Enjoy.

Again as long as Hamas wants total annihilation of the Jews and use civilians as shields all the blood is in their hands. No one else's. You can cry all you like.

As I said I'll do as I damned well please.

 

[Nordberg]

The latest Israeli bombing has buried many Palestinians under rubble. They are digging them out. Each will understand it is Hamas's fault.

 

[IBDaMann]

So, your irrational, die-hard support for Team Hamas means characterizing brutal savagery by terrorists as no different than responding [with brutal savagery] to an unprovoked attack.

1. I don't support Hamas
2. brutal savagery by terrorists is exactly the same as brutal savagery by the IDF, regardless of any attempts to justify it. They are both wrong, but you have no moral compass. You apply special pleading to dismiss the brutal savagery by the IDF. Your claim is that it is wrong if the opposing team does it, and perfectly fine for your team. This makes you a shitty person. You approve of brutal savagery just because it's coming from your team.

You have no argument, only your Antisemitism.

Too funny. You don't even know what the word means.

What a steaming load of shit.

It would appear that you are the one who has no argument, and who has been exposed for his special pleading for Team Israel and Team Eradicate Palestinians.

Israel has a responsibility, a DUTY to respond [with brutal savagery and indiscriminate bombing of innocent civilians who never attacked Israel] to the vicious attack by [Hamas].

I don't have a team. I might be the only one on this board who hasn't picked a team. I'm simply demanding accountability for atrocities, war crimes, brutal savagery and the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime. Because I don't have a team, I don't employ any special pleading and I don't accept any special pleading.

You, on the other hand, selected Team Israel as your team, you fight tooth and nail to excuse every shred of brutal savagery on the part of the IDF, you employ special pleading in every other sentence (i.e. everything that is wrong and immoral for Hamas is totally proper and righteous for Israel), and you neatly package all of the IDF's war crime atrocities in the very noble-sounding "response to an unprovoked attack." You are totally fine with the IDF indiscriminately bombing civilians, which is exactly what Hamas did, just because you HATE all Palestinians for being Arab and Muslims. You don't care that they never attacked anyone because you HATE them. You don't care that they are humans who haven't committed any crime; it is sufficient that you HATE them. You never discuss Iran as being the responsible party for attacking Israel because you are having too much fun watching the Palestinian civilians (who never attacked anyone) receive the full retribution for the Ayatollah's attack on Israel. You never call for Israel to go after Iran for the same reason, or at least you are waiting for the IDF to kill off the Palestinians first before you offer such a suggestion.

To do nothing, as you demand, would be suicidal and insane.

You are being totally dishonest. I specifically recognize Israel's right to defend themselves and I have stated that they should. Your lack of morals, lack of conscience and HATRED for Palestinians has caused you to equate "committing no war crimes and no brutal savagery against Palestinian civilians (who never attacked Israel)" with "doing nothing." In your mind, any "response" necessarily involves brutal eradication of the Palestinians, regardless of the fact that they have not committed any crime and weren't the party that attacked Israel.

The Team Israel position is that the IDF is morally justified in the indiscriminate killing, and eradication, of an entire class of people that never attacked Israel. Yay! Go team!

The irony of YOU calling someone else a "racist."

Feel free to elaborate on this "irony." I'm not supporting anyone and I am not justifying any indiscriminate killing, any war crimes, any brutal savagery, or any genocide. I am demanding accountability.

Hey, look! What a strange coincidence; you are a diehard fan of Team Israel, and you happen to be excusing the IDF's indiscriminate killing, war crimes, brutal savagery and genocide, and rebuffing all calls for accountability. Wow. Is that the irony to which you were referring?

Your buddies started a war.

Who would that be? In your view, are the people being slaughtered indiscriminately the ones who "started a war"?

Israel gave civilians THREE WEEKS to move out of the war zone.

Israel gave the world less than THREE HOURS warning before beginning to conduct air strikes on civilian infrastructure and getting started on the Palestinian body count. Did I mention that Palestinian civilians did not attack Israel?

Nonetheless, you believe that three weeks notice is sufficient to excuse war crimes ... at least in your special pleading for Israel, yes?

Got it, "Some people did something."

Is this your characterization of Hamas' attack on October 7th, or is this your special pleading on behalf of the IDF?

Agreed. If the IDF attacks a concert, rapes women, and beheads babies that will be a serious issue.

... but if they indiscriminately bomb babies and other civilians who haven't committed any crime, that's OK, yes?

Of course they haven't. You're just trying to excuse what your terrorist buddies did with a false equivalence fallacy.

I am not excusing anything or anyone. You are the one doing the excusing, all for Team Israel, i.e. indiscriminate bombing of civilians is totally unconscionable everywhere in the world, especially when Hamas does it at a music festival at Re'im ... but the IDF is an exception ... they're Israel, you see, and so they're an exception ... it's totally OK for them. The completely absurd part of the Team Israel position is the idea that whoever the IDF indiscriminately bombs "thoroughly DESERVED what they got" ... even the children, even the women, even those who never voted for Hamas.

Team Israel is on the wrong side of this issue.

That's a flat out lie. Gaza invaded Israel and started a war with their action.

We've got nothing to discuss. Hamas attacked Israel. You and Team Israel insist on deluding yourselves into believing that the Palestinian civilians who never attacked Israel nonetheless somehow attacked Israel, and thus deserve to die. But that's the overt racism that Team Israel has adopted to help take the sting off the conscience.

Would you lie that we "murdered" 3 million Germans in WWII?

1. I need you to provide the antecedent for "we"
2. Were they wearing military uniforms when they were shot, or were they civilians who we indiscriminately bombed? Please be specific because I want to give you a correct answer.

"Never Again" means that when you do this kind of shit, you're getting your ass kicked.

Indiscriminate bombing often demands a death sentence, either by a military response or by a war crimes tribunal.

So you would give Hamas a stern talking to?

Once again, you equate "committing no war crimes and no brutal savagery against Palestinian civilians (who never attacked Israel)" with "doing nothing." In your mind, any "response" necessarily involves brutal eradication of the Palestinians, regardless of the fact that they have not committed any crime and weren't the party that attacked Israel.

Meanwhile the Jews must give up their homes and country.

Here you equate "committing no war crimes and no brutal savagery against Palestinian civilians (who never attacked Israel)" with "the Jews must therefore give up their homes and country." In your mind, any "response" necessarily involves brutal eradication of the Palestinians, regardless of the fact that they have not committed any crime and weren't the party that attacked Israel.

I mean come on, Muslims only control 99% of the land mass in the middle east.

Finish the thought. Therefore the IDF is justified in eradicating Muslims through indiscriminate bombing, yes?

The GREEDY JEWS refuse to give them the other 1% - NO FAIR!

Here you equate "committing war crimes and brutal savagery against Palestinian civilians (who never attacked Israel)" with "the Jews refusal to give them the other 1%" In your mind, any "response" necessarily involves brutal eradication of the Palestinians, regardless of the fact that Palestinian civilians have not committed any crime and weren't the party that attacked Israel.

Hamas is the government of Gaza.

This still does not transform noncombatants into combatants. The IDF will have no defense if their war crimes are tried in an international court.

Gaza went to war with Israel.

Nope. Historical revisionism. Israel declared war and invaded, committing atrocities in the process. The fact that Israel was responding to an attack does not excuse the war crimes committed by the IDF.

 

[IBDaMann]

The latest Israeli bombing has buried many Palestinians under rubble. They are digging them out. Each will understand it is Hamas's fault.

The IDF is well trained in all aspects of urban warfare. If the IDF has an enemy trapped inside a building, they are skilled in extracting said enemy and clearing the building ... while checking their targets.

There is no military need for the IDF to fire missiles into buildings that are inhabited by civilians. Hundreds killed or injured within seconds, every time. It saddens me to think of the thousands of children killed just so that Israelis can feel like they "got even." It saddens me to think how Israelis are never quite satisfied with having "gotten even" and continue killing more and more children ... and women ... and other civilians ... forever, I suppose, or until all the Palestinians are dead and won't be draining any of that free water and energy coming from Israel.

 

[Uncensored2008]

1. I don't support Hamas
2. brutal savagery by terrorists is exactly the same as brutal savagery by the IDF, regardless of any attempts to justify it. They are both wrong, but you have no moral compass. You apply special pleading to dismiss the brutal savagery by the IDF. Your claim is that it is wrong if the opposing team does it, and perfectly fine for your team. This makes you a shitty person. You approve of brutal savagery just because it's coming from your team.


Too funny. You don't even know what the word means.


It would appear that you are the one who has no argument, and who has been exposed for his special pleading for Team Israel and Team Eradicate Palestinians.


I don't have a team. I might be the only one on this board who hasn't picked a team. I'm simply demanding accountability for atrocities, war crimes, brutal savagery and the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime. Because I don't have a team, I don't employ any special pleading and I don't accept any special pleading.

You, on the other hand, selected Team Israel as your team, you fight tooth and nail to excuse every shred of brutal savagery on the part of the IDF, you employ special pleading in every other sentence (i.e. everything that is wrong and immoral for Hamas is totally proper and righteous for Israel), and you neatly package all of the IDF's war crime atrocities in the very noble-sounding "response to an unprovoked attack." You are totally fine with the IDF indiscriminately bombing civilians, which is exactly what Hamas did, just because you HATE all Palestinians for being Arab and Muslims. You don't care that they never attacked anyone because you HATE them. You don't care that they are humans who haven't committed any crime; it is sufficient that you HATE them. You never discuss Iran as being the responsible party for attacking Israel because you are having too much fun watching the Palestinian civilians (who never attacked anyone) receive the full retribution for the Ayatollah's attack on Israel. You never call for Israel to go after Iran for the same reason, or at least you are waiting for the IDF to kill off the Palestinians first before you offer such a suggestion.


You are being totally dishonest. I specifically recognize Israel's right to defend themselves and I have stated that they should. Your lack of morals, lack of conscience and HATRED for Palestinians has caused you to equate "committing no war crimes and no brutal savagery against Palestinian civilians (who never attacked Israel)" with "doing nothing." In your mind, any "response" necessarily involves brutal eradication of the Palestinians, regardless of the fact that they have not committed any crime and weren't the party that attacked Israel.

The Team Israel position is that the IDF is morally justified in the indiscriminate killing, and eradication, of an entire class of people that never attacked Israel. Yay! Go team!


Feel free to elaborate on this "irony." I'm not supporting anyone and I am not justifying any indiscriminate killing, any war crimes, any brutal savagery, or any genocide. I am demanding accountability.

Hey, look! What a strange coincidence; you are a diehard fan of Team Israel, and you happen to be excusing the IDF's indiscriminate killing, war crimes, brutal savagery and genocide, and rebuffing all calls for accountability. Wow. Is that the irony to which you were referring?


Who would that be? In your view, are the people being slaughtered indiscriminately the ones who "started a war"?


Israel gave the world less than THREE HOURS warning before beginning to conduct air strikes on civilian infrastructure and getting started on the Palestinian body count. Did I mention that Palestinian civilians did not attack Israel?

Nonetheless, you believe that three weeks notice is sufficient to excuse war crimes ... at least in your special pleading for Israel, yes?


Is this your characterization of Hamas' attack on October 7th, or is this your special pleading on behalf of the IDF?


... but if they indiscriminately bomb babies and other civilians who haven't committed any crime, that's OK, yes?


I am not excusing anything or anyone. You are the one doing the excusing, all for Team Israel, i.e. indiscriminate bombing of civilians is totally unconscionable everywhere in the world, especially when Hamas does it at a music festival at Re'im ... but the IDF is an exception ... they're Israel, you see, and so they're an exception ... it's totally OK for them. The completely absurd part of the Team Israel position is the idea that whoever the IDF indiscriminately bombs "thoroughly DESERVED what they got" ... even the children, even the women, even those who never voted for Hamas.

Team Israel is on the wrong side of this issue.


We've got nothing to discuss. Hamas attacked Israel. You and Team Israel insist on deluding yourselves into believing that the Palestinian civilians who never attacked Israel nonetheless somehow attacked Israel, and thus deserve to die. But that's the overt racism that Team Israel has adopted to help take the sting off the conscience.


1. I need you to provide the antecedent for "we"
2. Were they wearing military uniforms when they were shot, or were they civilians who we indiscriminately bombed? Please be specific because I want to give you a correct answer.


Indiscriminate bombing often demands a death sentence, either by a military response or by a war crimes tribunal.


Once again, you equate "committing no war crimes and no brutal savagery against Palestinian civilians (who never attacked Israel)" with "doing nothing." In your mind, any "response" necessarily involves brutal eradication of the Palestinians, regardless of the fact that they have not committed any crime and weren't the party that attacked Israel.


Here you equate "committing no war crimes and no brutal savagery against Palestinian civilians (who never attacked Israel)" with "the Jews must therefore give up their homes and country." In your mind, any "response" necessarily involves brutal eradication of the Palestinians, regardless of the fact that they have not committed any crime and weren't the party that attacked Israel.


Finish the thought. Therefore the IDF is justified in eradicating Muslims through indiscriminate bombing, yes?


Here you equate "committing war crimes and brutal savagery against Palestinian civilians (who never attacked Israel)" with "the Jews refusal to give them the other 1%" In your mind, any "response" necessarily involves brutal eradication of the Palestinians, regardless of the fact that Palestinian civilians have not committed any crime and weren't the party that attacked Israel.


This still does not transform noncombatants into combatants. The IDF will have no defense if their war crimes are tried in an international court.


Nope. Historical revisionism. Israel declared war and invaded, committing atrocities in the process. The fact that Israel was responding to an attack does not excuse the war crimes committed by the IDF.

Dishonestly altering back quotes violates the rules of the board.

Knock it off.

 

[IBDaMann]

Again as long as Hamas wants total annihilation of the Jews and use civilians as shields all the blood is in their hands.

Awesome special pleading as well as convoluted logic! As long as Hamas eats tofu, all of the blood shed via IDF atrocities in on the hands of Palestinian civilians who never attacked Israel. Wundervoll! Go Team Israel!

As I said I'll do as I damned well please.

Really? You felt you had to reemphasize this point? Great. I'll copy-paste my response:

I can see that, and if all you can do is assign bogus positions so you'll at least have something to attack, you won't let dishonesty stay you from your appointed rounds. Enjoy.

 

[Scott]

Yes let's clear it up. Where should the Jews go?

I think the only lasting solution that doesn't involve exterminating the Palestinians leads to the one state solution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-state_solution

The one state solution involves the extermination of Jews.

Absolute balderdash. The one state solution was first proposed way back in the 1920s, after the Palestine Riots of 1920, by the British Mandatory authorities. Quoting from the Wikipedia articled linked to above:

**
Disagreements over Jewish immigration as well as incitement by Haj Amin Al-Husseini led to an outbreak of Arab-Jewish violence in the Palestine Riots of 1920. Violence erupted again the following year during the Jaffa Riots. In response to these riots, Britain established the Haycraft Commission of Inquiry. The British Mandatory authorities put forward proposals for setting up an elected legislative council in Palestine. In 1924 the issue was raised at a conference held by Ahdut Ha'avodah at Ein Harod. Shlomo Kaplansky, a veteran leader of Poalei Zion, argued that a Parliament, even with an Arab majority, was the way forward. David Ben-Gurion, the emerging leader of the Yishuv, succeeded in getting Kaplansky's ideas rejected.[24] Violence erupted again in the form of the 1929 Palestine riots. After the violence, the British led another commission of inquiry under Sir Walter Shaw. The report of the Shaw Commission, known as the Shaw Report or Command Paper No 3530, attributed the violence to "the twofold fear of the Arabs that, by Jewish immigration and land purchase, they might be deprived of their livelihood and, in time, pass under the political domination of the Jews".[25]
**

In hindsight, it's quite clear that the Arabs in the region had very good reason to fear that they would be deprived of their livelihoods and that they would "pass under the political domination of the Jews".

One stated goal of Hamas is precisely that.

Do you have evidence for that assertion? I decided to look online to see what I could find on Hamas. I found the following article from 2021 that I found interesting:

Does Hamas truly want to eradicate Israel? (No) | mondoweiss.net

Quoting from the article:

**
Mainstream U.S. media reports on the crisis take it as an established fact that Hamas wants to eradicate Israel. Here, the other day, is New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman. He called Hamas

an Islamo-fascist organization. . . that is dedicated to destroying the Jewish state and imposing a Teheran-like Islamic regime in Palestine. . .​

Let’s set aside the hysteria, and turn to a genuine scholar, Jerome Slater, who taught about Israel/Palestine for 50 years and who recently published the work of a lifetime: “Mythologies without End: The US, Israel, and the Arab-Israeli Conflict 1917-2020.”

Slater looked calmly at the facts, and this is what he found. He recognizes that Hamas’s original 1988 Charter was in fact “openly anti-Semitic and called for the violent destruction of Israel,” but he says the record shows that “as early as 2009,” the organization “began moving away” from it. Hamas leaders continued to moderate their rhetoric, and then in May 2017 the organization issued a new charter:

There were still ambiguities and apparent inconsistencies, but there was a clear change: the new charter downplayed the religious fundamentalism of the original one, dropped the anti-Semitic language, and stated that the Islamist movement was not at war with the Jewish people but only with “Zionism” and the Israeli occupation of Palestine.
**

Finding the article interesting, I decided to look into the site itself. From their about page:

**
Founded in 2006 as a personal blog of journalist Philip Weiss, Mondoweiss grew inside the progressive Jewish community and has become a critical resource for the movement for justice for Palestinians. We continue to follow debates over the role of Israel and nationalism in Jewish American life while seeking to reflect a diverse community of views on issues of international importance. We recognize that Jewish voices are often prioritized in discussions of Israel and seek to challenge that dynamic by bringing a universalist focus to an issue that is commonly dominated by narrow points of view.
**

Source:
https://mondoweiss.net/about-mondoweiss/

 

[Scott]

I think the only lasting solution that doesn't involve exterminating the Palestinians leads to the one state solution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-state_solution

So Genocide of the Jews then.

No, that was never the intent of the one state solution. The intent was always to provide a peaceful resolution to this conflict that's lasted around a century now. I get into more details in my previous post to Yakuda, here:

Firing into Civilians - Israel isn't going after Hamas, Post #319 | justplainpolitics.com