for Jews the cross is a symbol of oppression
- Thread starter Guno צְבִי
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That is the first time I have actually heard a Christian basically state the the Gospels are anti-Semitic. Who'd thunk?
The first century Jewish historians Philo and Josepheus wrote that Pontius Pilate was a corrupt Roman overlord who practiced wanton cruelty, accepted bribes, and executed and crucified prisoners on a whim without charges. They also both say that Pontius Pilate ordered the execution of Jesus. They make no reference of Pilate trying to save Jesus or prevent the exectution.
Their description of the wanton cruelty of Pontius Pilate contradicts the Gospels of the Bible attempts to portray him as basically the good guy. And if we look at if from the scholarly point of view, the Gospels are not really historical accounts and early Christian writers of the late first century had many reasons to curry favor with the Romans and attempt to paint Pontius Pilate and the Romans as bascially innocent of the execution of Jesus.
Yes, the Gospels are antisemitic (a nonsense term used by anti-Christian fcktards and bigots), as is the whole Bible, including the Hebrew scriptures (which spends a lot of time calling Jews whores, and worse).
You're going to have to provide quotes from Philo and Josepheous to support your claim, because I don't think they support your claims. Rather than being cruel, these non-biblical courses show Pilate to be a man who would rather back down from pushing Roman (not personal) interests to keep the peace than kill people, which is ultimately white Rome removed him from Judea.
If the Gospel accounts (written in the life time of witnesses) were false, why didn't the Jews write anything in refutation of the Gospel's claims? On the contrary, the Jews were proud of killing Jesus, so they didn't dispute the role the Gospels paint. Then there's the Talmud, the jew's bible, where the Jews proudly takes credit for killing Jesus.
Iolo/Penderyn
Verified User
Imperialism killed Jesus.
saltydancin
Verified User
Ask Ralph, he is the local expert, he will be happy to explain it to you.
So ask the local expert regurgitating eye witness accounts written some 200 - 400 years after the fact demagoguery of a fabricated misnomer of an immaculate conception ?
You are the gift that keeps on giving.
For all the billions of times conservative posters have claimed to love Israel and Jews, I am surprised it takes a lefty like me to confront overt anti-semitism while JPP.com's rightwing contingent keeps silent in the face of virulent and degenerate conservative Anti-semitism.
JPP.COMs conservative anti-Semitism, greatest hits
Let's start with the fact of your ignorance. Prior to my post, you actually had no clue there were two Jewish historians of the first century who wrote about Pontius Pilate and Jesus.
Not the slightest clue.
Before you start pounding the table and making demands of me, your need to first concede your ignorance.
Next, I am reticent to read you or engage you directly at this point because I am trying to decide if you are an established poster hiding behind a new screen name, or an ephemeral troll bent on trolling threads. I do not respond to deception, trolling, or people too cowardly to use their normal screen names.
saltydancin
Verified User
Well, where are these chronological bibliography references & where in the Talmud is Jesus denoted or is this just Christiananality Islamophobia pedophilia business of money talks & BS walks ?
Worm, I gave you an invitation to make your case that Pilate is misrepresented in the Gospels, but all you could do is cry that I'm a racist, or whatever you fcktards mean by "antisimitic", for going with the Gospels.
That fact that I do not choose to relentlessly indulge the rantings of a barely literate anti-Semite like you is a mere consequence of the fact you are not worth my time.
The historical scholarship I am familiar with regarding the New Testament exceeds all possible knowledge you think you have on religious history.
I am 100 percent sure you never even heard of Philo or Josepheus until I brought them up; and you were unaware of the comprehensive sources of biblical scholarship from which one can draw reasoned conclusions about the historical events of the lives of Jesus of Nazareth and Pontius Pilate.
It is not my job to educate a dim witted anti-Semite. Suffice it to say for the record that the truth probably lies somwhere in between the reporting of the Jewish historians of the first century and the Christian writers of the canonical gospels. I find it interesting that the earliest chronological Gospel - that of Mark - comports pretty closely to what the Jewish historians implied - that Pontius Pilate had no problem executing Jesus and he really made no concerted efforts to save him. He ordered his execution without a second thought or a moment of remorse.
It is only in the chronologically later Gospels that the Christian writers attempted to make the Romans look more and more innocent, and the Jewish people more and more guilty. Good historical scholarship generally would place more weight on the Gospel of Mark, being closer in time to the actual events that transpired, and thus not as subject to revision, embellishment, and modification with the passage of time.
Hey Jew, I hope Christians are taking note of your baseless bashing of the Bible. If you had something to prove the accounts of Pilate in the Gospels are fake, you'd post it rather than ranting about how you know things yet won't or can't show you know anything.
?? How is he bashing the bible??
What is the point, & what difference does it make??
Whatever Pilate felt is what he felt, it changes nothing..
I am not Jewish, I just generally do not let barely educated anti-Semites lie about Jews.
The cannonical Gospels are not consistent with each other regarding the events that transpired between Jesus of Nazereth and Pontius Pilate. If sentient human beings have any hope of understanding what happened, we have to turn to the use of reason and the principles of historical scholarship.
The claims of the later Gospels do not pass the criterion of contextual credibility. We know from the first century Jewish historian Josepheus that Pontius Pilate was a brutal Roman overlord who executed opponents on a whim and without trial, and he would not have been so meek as to cater to the whims of his Jewish underlings, or to their cries for blood. Pontius would have had no problem - none, nada, zilch - issuing an order to execute Jesus as a threat to Roman interests. First century Jewish historians attribute the execution of Jesus to Pontius Pilate and make no mention of him playing the good guy and attempting to spare Jesus.
The earliest Gospel chronologicaly, aka Mark, comports fairly well with the narrative of the Jewish historians - aka, Pontius Pilate was not the good guy, did not lift a finger to spare Jesus, and gave the order to execute him without giving it a second thought.
As noted earlier, the idea of the crowds calling for Jesus’ blood in chronologically later Gospels does not pass the criterion of dissimilarity; later Christians telling the story may have wanted to emphasize the culpability of the Jewish people.
Last, any attempt to hold all the Jewish people accountable in perpetuity for the actions of a handful of Jewish leaders in the thrall of Roman authorities is something that would only occur to an anti-semite. It is not something that would occur to a normal, ethical, thinking human being.
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How's the phishing today SOCK?
Did you get my message Pastor??
Not used a sock since 98' but it is legal here, do you have a problem w/ that??
Much obliged.
When it comes to anti-Semitic Christians, I actually do not think they give a rat's ass about historical scholarship of the events described in the New Testament.
2,000 years of anti-Semitism and Jewish oppression by Christians has a long, complicated, and sordid history. But probably some of it can be traced directly to the attempts by the early Christian writers to place the blame in perpetuity on future generations of Jews for the treatment, torture, and execution of Jesus of Nazareth.
I have seen many like him & his lil friend....... The bible, history etc are tools they use to try and convince others/validate their hate..
I would guess there will be more to come & they usually drag it out until their beaten to a pulp & fall on their own sword=get themselves banned....
saltydancin
Verified User
You should actually see what he has to say before you discount it out of hand...
It's as if one's acceptance of a self aggrandizing scholarship on a fabricated misnomer of an immaculate conception is the national religion of terrorism avoidance of the laws of nature & nature's God. Nazi's exterminated 6 million + Jews for not accepting Jesus & never found another to forgive them scientifically; which seems is still that "serve the Pope or die" discount.