GOP blocking the Speculation bill

[cawacko]

Ohh that old overseas fearmongering. Overseas is cracking down on them worse than we are.
And this is global not just USA.

fearmongering? there's no fearmongering it's an economic fact. Capital will find it's most advantagous location. If a country (the U.S. in this instance) wants to pass laws making something more difficult capital will go somewhere else where it is not so difficult.

My firm has $38 billion under management across the globe. I would love for you to be in a meeting where we are discussing areas to invest and have you claim we're just "fearmongering" when we discuss why we should or should not invest in a certain country.

Seriously, dude, I will pay for your ticket to L.A. to sit in on one of our meetings and say that.

 

[ib1yysguy]

http://www.eia.doe.gov/basics/quickoil.html

Also from 2005, but I have seen nothing of substance to suggest that new demand since 2005 has been outstripped by new supply.

I will wait for you to provide some evidence of that.

I heard it from multiple people on NPR over multiple days. This indicates to me that presently supplies outstrip demand (by however small amount). It's hardly implausible. Look at how far behind supply was three years ago - not far at all.

 

[uscitizen]

You're flailing.

It's the democrats offering short term solutions (and long term, too, but that got shot down in a different bill). The Republicans are saying they need to go begin drilling a new water well, despite the fact that there's more water than they need already presently available. Democrats are saying we need to catch the arsonists who are lighting the fires (speculators). Neither solution is going to save the house that's burning right now, but one is going to work more quickly than the other. And one has really no impact on anything at all, and one does.

That pretty much sums up my position on this.

 

[uscitizen]

fearmongering? there's no fearmongering it's an economic fact. Capital will find it's most advantagous location. If a country (the U.S. in this instance) wants to pass laws making something more difficult capital will go somewhere else where it is not so difficult.

My firm has $38 billion under management across the globe. I would love for you to be in a meeting where we are discussing areas to invest and have you claim we're just "fearmongering" when we discuss why we should or should not invest in a certain country.

Seriously, dude, I will pay for your ticket to L.A. to sit in on one of our meetings and say that.

You would have to pay me a whole lot to wallow with the pigs. Even for one meeting.

Those are the types that put money above all else, not my type at all.

 

[ib1yysguy]

That pretty much sums up my position on this.

I knew we could agree on something.

 

[cawacko]

You would have to pay me a whole lot to wallow with the pigs. Even for one meeting.

Those are the types that put money above all else, not my type at all.

ummm, no, they put their clients needs above all else. So I thank you for your holier than thou belief about yourself though. And our clients our government employees, i.e. - 'the little people' i.e. - the 'smart' people according to you because most vote Democrat. So yes the people I work with are evil because they invest public union employees retirement money. Oh wait, you mean retirement money doesn't just grow on trees?

 

[Bonestorm]

No, the Ds are banning only the sulfur tipped matches that the arsonists used, pretending that there is no other device to use to start another fire. (The speculation will simply move overseas.) The Rs are saying, "We have to tap the hydrant and use what we have, even if it costs." The D's are saying, "No pray more for rain."

Instead of dumbass metaphors why don't we talk about what it actually going on right now.

The Democrats, after attempting to pass wide-ranging legislation to increase alternative energy sources and to cut energy consumption that the Republicans filibustered, offered up this bill to deal with excessive speculation after studying the matter and having hearings at the committee level on the issue of rising oil prices.

Experts indicated that excessive speculation is driving the price, not normal market forces. Here's an article about it:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/23/news/economy/energy_speculation/

So the Democrats, after having the wide-ranging efforts scuttled by the Senate Republicans (the bill had already passed the House) offered up this legislation to deal with the specific issue of excessive speculation driving up prices.

The Republicans, opposed to the wide-ranging bill, are opposed to this targeted bill as not enough all while pretending that the earlier proposal that they filibustered never happened.

It's insane.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Instead of dumbass metaphors why don't we talk about what it actually going on right now.

The Democrats, after attempting to pass wide-ranging legislation to increase alternative energy sources and to cut energy consumption that the Republicans filibustered, offered up this bill to deal with excessive speculation after studying the matter and having hearings at the committee level on the issue of rising oil prices.

Experts indicated that excessive speculation is driving the price, not normal market forces. Here's an article about it:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/23/news/economy/energy_speculation/

So the Democrats, after having the wide-ranging efforts scuttled by the Senate Republicans (the bill had already passed the House) offered up this legislation to deal with the specific issue of excessive speculation driving up prices.

The Republicans, opposed to the wide-ranging bill, are opposed to this targeted bill as not enough all while pretending that the earlier proposal that they filibustered never happened.

It's insane.

No question, the Reps blocking the alt energy bill was ignorance at its finest.

However, to compound their ignorance with ignorance from the Dems is not going to help.

As others have mentioned already. Trying to control or regulate speculation in the market (even if just on oil) IS NOT GOING TO WORK. THERE IS NOTHING TO STOP SPECULATORS FROM SIMPLY GOING OVER TO A FOREIGN EXCHANGE.

That and the fact that speculation can work to drive prices up above fair value, but they can also work to drive oil prices down below fair value.

IF the idiots in the two parties would actually realize that the BEST thing for dropping oil prices is to BOTH increase domestic oil production AND increase usage of alt energy. But no.... the idiots in the Rep party block alt energy and the idiots in the Dem party block domestic drilling increases.

This bullshit of trying to control speculation is nothing more than a political ploy. It will NOT SOLVE ANYTHING. It will not drop oil prices.

 

[Damocles]

Instead of dumbass metaphors why don't we talk about what it actually going on right now.

The Democrats, after attempting to pass wide-ranging legislation to increase alternative energy sources and to cut energy consumption that the Republicans filibustered, offered up this bill to deal with excessive speculation after studying the matter and having hearings at the committee level on the issue of rising oil prices.

Experts indicated that excessive speculation is driving the price, not normal market forces. Here's an article about it:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/23/news/economy/energy_speculation/

So the Democrats, after having the wide-ranging efforts scuttled by the Senate Republicans (the bill had already passed the House) offered up this legislation to deal with the specific issue of excessive speculation driving up prices.

The Republicans, opposed to the wide-ranging bill, are opposed to this targeted bill as not enough all while pretending that the earlier proposal that they filibustered never happened.

It's insane.

Again, the "long-ranging" legislation deals in the "pray for rain" that I spoke of earlier, all without tapping the available hydrant. I don't care if it changes the price of oil, I care whether it changes our outlook on the ME, which less dependency will.

I believe we need something more than just this band-aid suggested by the hedge funds they are trying to curb.

 

[Damocles]

IF the idiots in the two parties would actually realize that the BEST thing for dropping oil prices is to BOTH increase domestic oil production AND increase usage of alt energy. But no.... the idiots in the Rep party block alt energy and the idiots in the Dem party block domestic drilling increases.

This bullshit of trying to control speculation is nothing more than a political ploy. It will NOT SOLVE ANYTHING. It will not drop oil prices.

This, QFT. This is what Schaffer is running on, BTW, SF. As well as Steve Ward. I don't know your congressional district is, but you may want to jump in and vote Ward if you are in the 6th and change back to Independent after the election.

 

[ib1yysguy]

Who posted that map of oil reserves the companies already had access to but weren't drilling?

If it's more oil they want, they can drill what we've already given them. There's no reason to go to ANWAR. I'm fine with off shore drilling. Just don't go and fuck up our wildlife preserves.

 

[ib1yysguy]

Again Damo, you fail to address the fact that there's no need to drill more oil when supplies already outstrip demand. That helps with LONG TERM dependence, yes, but it's hardly "tapping the spigot now!" that you're saying.

 

[Bonestorm]

No question, the Reps blocking the alt energy bill was ignorance at its finest.

However, to compound their ignorance with ignorance from the Dems is not going to help.

As others have mentioned already. Trying to control or regulate speculation in the market (even if just on oil) IS NOT GOING TO WORK. THERE IS NOTHING TO STOP SPECULATORS FROM SIMPLY GOING OVER TO A FOREIGN EXCHANGE.

That and the fact that speculation can work to drive prices up above fair value, but they can also work to drive oil prices down below fair value.

IF the idiots in the two parties would actually realize that the BEST thing for dropping oil prices is to BOTH increase domestic oil production AND increase usage of alt energy. But no.... the idiots in the Rep party block alt energy and the idiots in the Dem party block domestic drilling increases.

This bullshit of trying to control speculation is nothing more than a political ploy. It will NOT SOLVE ANYTHING. It will not drop oil prices.

I think there is a genuine disagreement as to the impact of increased regulation. The Democrats have their folks that say it will work to decrease prices whereas the Republicans have their folks that say it won't.

That's all well and good, but rather than accept the fact that they are the minority party and that elections have consequences the Republicans once again filibuster.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Again Damo, you fail to address the fact that there's no need to drill more oil when supplies already outstrip demand. That helps with LONG TERM dependence, yes, but it's hardly "tapping the spigot now!" that you're saying.

Again.... show one shred of evidence besides "I heard someone say something like that on NPR" that shows world oil supplies currently outstripping demand.

 

[Damocles]

Again Damo, you fail to address the fact that there's no need to drill more oil when supplies already outstrip demand. That helps with LONG TERM dependence, yes, but it's hardly "tapping the spigot now!" that you're saying.

Again, you refuse to recognize the goal of decreased dependency and pretend that the only reason to drill would be to lower pricing. I think that there are better reasons for it than just the very short-sighted price fixation and that distractions will create the same patchwork solutions we have applied in the past.

I think we have a window of opportunity, and if we don't seize it we are just dooming ourselves. Focusing the nation on real fixes is good, pasting another bandage on our cancerous sore? Cosmetic.

 

[ib1yysguy]

I haven't seen the Republicans put anyone forward to say that speculation isn't a huge factor (probably the most significant factor aside from OPEC) currently driving prices. I've just heard them respond to everything with "ANWAR!!11!"

 

[ib1yysguy]

Again.... show one shred of evidence besides "I heard someone say something like that on NPR" that shows world oil supplies currently outstripping demand.

I'll work on it. In the meantime, do you think it's really that implausible having seen the graphs? After seeing those, you stopped calling the assertion "retarded."

 

[ib1yysguy]

Again, you refuse to recognize the goal of decreased dependency and pretend that the only reason to drill would be to lower pricing. I think that there are better reasons for it than just the very short-sighted price fixation and that distractions will create the same patchwork solutions we have applied in the past.

I think we have a window of opportunity, and if we don't seize it we are just dooming ourselves. Focusing the nation on real fixes is good, pasting another bandage on our cancerous sore? Cosmetic.

You didn't read my post, obviously. I addressed dependency very specifically.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I think there is a genuine disagreement as to the impact of increased regulation. The Democrats have their folks that say it will work to decrease prices whereas the Republicans have their folks that say it won't.

That's all well and good, but rather than accept the fact that they are the minority party and that elections have consequences the Republicans once again filibuster.

No question their are idiots pandering from both sides on this. However, from someone who trades in the market daily for clients... I can tell you. This is not going to do shit to lower prices.

If a firm is told they cannot use oil futures for speculation (even if it is just some arbitrary "limit" on their speculation) the firm will simply move their trading over to the London exchange and trade futures there instead of the US. There is not one hedge fund, money manager, wire house etc... that cannot do this. Most already have people based in London and Hong Kong.

Also, as stated earlier.... you can have the speculators work to drive oil back down just as easily as they have driven it up. A point that many from your point of view are not addressing.

You just have to provide a reason to do so. The Dems alt energy bill (had the idiotic move by the Reps not killed it) would have helped. Likewise, the Reps move to open more off shore drilling would also help.

I ask again.... what do you think is the cause of the recent $20+ drop in oil prices?

 

[Damocles]

You didn't read my post, obviously. I addressed dependency very specifically.

Fair enough, I like long-term solutions and believe that short-term fixes tend to make Congress forget the importance of things like this. It's what I have been saying from the beginning. This is too important to let something like this distract us. This should be something added to far more reaching legislation, not a patch that allows them to ignore the problem long enough to allow the window of opportunity to close.