NYC could have and should have been rebuilt by now SF. That is all a bunch of bureaucratic and political bs. It could have been done.
Guess who called for the 1 Billion dollar payoff to Georgia .. Biden
- Thread starter blackascoal
- Start date
NYC could have and should have been rebuilt by now SF. That is all a bunch of bureaucratic and political bs. It could have been done.
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The Almighty
The idiots in DC tossing billions around doesn't equate to having the manpower, materials and equipment to get the job done.
I'm not conflating anything. I was responding to the poster commenting about NO and this in particular:
And, to be clear, I don't think that Georgia should get any military aid whatsoever. That's McCain's position. He wants to give the Georgian government military aid and weapons systems to "protect against Russian aggression." That's stupid and wrong on a whole host of levels.
Giving immediate humanitarian aid in the wake of a conflict isn't close to restarting the cold war.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Losing patience, US demands Russia quit Georgia
WASHINGTON (AP) — An irritated Bush administration accused Russia on Wednesday of trying to find excuses to keep thousands of troops in Georgia in violation of a cease-fire Russia signed with the former Soviet republic last month.
Using unusually blunt language, the State Department said it was well past time for Russia to withdraw most of its soldiers from Georgia's separatist areas of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. A spokesman demanded that Russia do so now.
"These guys are at every turn trying to wiggle out of a commitment they made and that their president put his name to," spokesman Sean McCormack said. "We've seen it since August and it continues. They need to get out of Georgia and they to stop finding excuses (not) to do that."
He said statements from Russian officials that Moscow intends to keep 3,800 troops in Abkhazia and 3,800 in South Ossetia were "quite concerning."
"That, of course, would be a violation of the cease-fire that they signed in August," McCormack said. "Russia and their government and troops need to abide by their commitments, bottom line." He said the presence of Russian troops in such numbers would also violate previous agreements that allowed Russia a maximum of only 1,500 peacekeepers in each region.
Russian forces continue to occupy its neighbor's territory weeks after last month's five-day war despite the French-brokered cease-fire signed by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili. Since then Russia has recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent nations over international condemnation.
Under a deal reached by French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Monday, Russia pledged to withdraw its forces from those zones within a month, after unarmed European Union observers are deployed. But Russia said it would maintain 7,600 troops in South Ossetia and Abkhazia for the future.
Russia has made its withdrawal pledges contingent on guarantees that Georgia will not use force to try to regain control of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gQYe039zkquHxitiI6u4M_TRr_BAD933UUB80
Obama and Biden speak with the exact same tongue as George Bush, McCain, and Dick Cheney.
Where's the fucking "change?"
WASHINGTON (AP) — An irritated Bush administration accused Russia on Wednesday of trying to find excuses to keep thousands of troops in Georgia in violation of a cease-fire Russia signed with the former Soviet republic last month.
Using unusually blunt language, the State Department said it was well past time for Russia to withdraw most of its soldiers from Georgia's separatist areas of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. A spokesman demanded that Russia do so now.
"These guys are at every turn trying to wiggle out of a commitment they made and that their president put his name to," spokesman Sean McCormack said. "We've seen it since August and it continues. They need to get out of Georgia and they to stop finding excuses (not) to do that."
He said statements from Russian officials that Moscow intends to keep 3,800 troops in Abkhazia and 3,800 in South Ossetia were "quite concerning."
"That, of course, would be a violation of the cease-fire that they signed in August," McCormack said. "Russia and their government and troops need to abide by their commitments, bottom line." He said the presence of Russian troops in such numbers would also violate previous agreements that allowed Russia a maximum of only 1,500 peacekeepers in each region.
Russian forces continue to occupy its neighbor's territory weeks after last month's five-day war despite the French-brokered cease-fire signed by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili. Since then Russia has recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent nations over international condemnation.
Under a deal reached by French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Monday, Russia pledged to withdraw its forces from those zones within a month, after unarmed European Union observers are deployed. But Russia said it would maintain 7,600 troops in South Ossetia and Abkhazia for the future.
Russia has made its withdrawal pledges contingent on guarantees that Georgia will not use force to try to regain control of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gQYe039zkquHxitiI6u4M_TRr_BAD933UUB80
Obama and Biden speak with the exact same tongue as George Bush, McCain, and Dick Cheney.
Where's the fucking "change?"
after how many years of prodding and begging?
I can't think of any conflicts in a country in africa where congress members from both sides of the aisle were ready to send off $1billion and calling on the US to step in right away.
You're an isolationist. I get it. We don't see eye to eye on this one. I'm content to leave it at that.
And Georgia isn't necessarily a "developed country."
Good point.
Perhaps if LA didn't have its National Guard hauled off to iraq, a lot more could have been done. We can blame that one on Bush.
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The Almighty
I agree, it SHOULD have been done by now. But it isn't. NO could not have been done by now. There was too much damage. There was not enough manpower, materials and equipment to rebuild that entire city within three years. Again, like NYC, they could have certainly done better than they did. But no way in hell was it all going to be done.
cawacko
Well-known member
SF, we are involved in funding the WTC site with Larry Silverstein. I can tell you it is a beauracratic mess that is holding up reconstruction.
Post-conflict or during?
On country that immediately comes to mind is Egypt after its war with Israel.
uscitizen
Villified User
Our govt finally figured out Africa has oil.
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The Almighty
Damn... you changed it before I could make fun of you....
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
AND, I still ask the same question ..
Forgetting New Orleans
"My mom is a hard-core Barack Obama supporter who wants to hear him say at Denver's Invesco Field "We're going to rebuild New Orleans, at whatever cost, whatever it takes."
Yet in recent months Obama has been publicly silent about one of the gravest tragedies in American history. Perhaps that silence can be attributed to concern about being associated with a catastrophe that was cast in racially polarizing terms. But his silence is a missed opportunity. There is no better platform than New Orleans to execute many of the social-mobility policies Obama has vigorously promoted in other places like rural Pennsylvania, Iowa and Montana. Simply expressing sentiment over New Orleans isn't enough. We have had enough of platitudes. Any Obama statement must reflect a plan for resurrecting New Orleans."
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1837105,00.html
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The Almighty
Yes, I know. My point was that it wasn't done almost seven years later. Yes, it is because of the bureaucratic mess. THAT is the problem you face when you get politicians mucking around in things.
I just want to ask you something that I asked Desh when we were talking about this. And I am in no way naïve to how McCain used this, and personally considering his campaign advisor’s lobbying for Georgia, and both of their personal relationships with the President of Georgia, I by no means discount the possibility that they actually provoked the President of Georgia into this. But, what we saw was an act of aggression on the part of Georgia, countered by a hugely destructive and very deadly (to a bunch of poor peasants from the looks of them) counter-attack, that was extremely Israel-like in its disproportionateness. We on the left are very able to see the wrongness of Israel’s actions, and sometimes, reactions, and those on the right are always claiming “but Palestine through firecracker at a tank” or whatever. I have seen those positions reversed in this situation, to some extent. Do we agree that Russia was out of line in its deadly reaction?
I'm actually not isolationist. When there's a clear case of genocide of any peoples, I think we have a moral obligation to step in. I have a problem with our uneven distribution of aid throughout the world. Humanitarian aid in emergencies is fine, stepping in politically and taking sides on an issue that both parties share blame is another.
its a lose lose lose situation for us. We gain an enemy, our infrastructure remains $hitty, and we lose more money.
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The Almighty
Yes, the national guard could have been called in greater force had they been there for some of the clean up efforts. But they are not construction workers. They also do not have the materials or equipment that is needed.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
You're hiding behind semantics .. "isolationist"
Why did the Georgia president START the conflict with Russia and attack and kill peacekeepers who have been there for 15 years under agreement?
lol
No, I meant that others can't conflate the two, not you. That, in other words, New Orleans doesn't belong in this discussion at all.