Guess who called for the 1 Billion dollar payoff to Georgia .. Biden

blackascoal said:
Losing patience, US demands Russia quit Georgia

WASHINGTON (AP) — An irritated Bush administration accused Russia on Wednesday of trying to find excuses to keep thousands of troops in Georgia in violation of a cease-fire Russia signed with the former Soviet republic last month.

Using unusually blunt language, the State Department said it was well past time for Russia to withdraw most of its soldiers from Georgia's separatist areas of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. A spokesman demanded that Russia do so now.

"These guys are at every turn trying to wiggle out of a commitment they made and that their president put his name to," spokesman Sean McCormack said. "We've seen it since August and it continues. They need to get out of Georgia and they to stop finding excuses (not) to do that."

He said statements from Russian officials that Moscow intends to keep 3,800 troops in Abkhazia and 3,800 in South Ossetia were "quite concerning."

"That, of course, would be a violation of the cease-fire that they signed in August," McCormack said. "Russia and their government and troops need to abide by their commitments, bottom line." He said the presence of Russian troops in such numbers would also violate previous agreements that allowed Russia a maximum of only 1,500 peacekeepers in each region.

Russian forces continue to occupy its neighbor's territory weeks after last month's five-day war despite the French-brokered cease-fire signed by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili. Since then Russia has recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent nations over international condemnation.

Under a deal reached by French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Monday, Russia pledged to withdraw its forces from those zones within a month, after unarmed European Union observers are deployed. But Russia said it would maintain 7,600 troops in South Ossetia and Abkhazia for the future.

Russia has made its withdrawal pledges contingent on guarantees that Georgia will not use force to try to regain control of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gQYe039zkquHxitiI6u4M_TRr_BAD933UUB80

Obama and Biden speak with the exact same tongue as George Bush, McCain, and Dick Cheney.

Where's the fucking "change?"
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So do you feel that Russia should continue its occupation?
 
Darla said:
No, I meant that others can't conflate the two, not you. That, in other words, New Orleans doesn't belong in this discussion at all.
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American infrastructure does indeed belong in thsi discussion when we're giving away billions of taxpayer money to pay of aggrssion that could lead to war.
 
blackascoal said:
You're hiding behind semantics .. "isolationist"

Why did the Georgia president START the conflict with Russia and attack and kill peacekeepers who have been there for 15 years under agreement?
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Why did Russia have all those tanks on the border?

Why did Russia provoke the Georgians (who stupidly complied)?

Why did Russia issue passports en masse to citizens of Georgia?
 
Superfreak said:
I agree, it SHOULD have been done by now. But it isn't. NO could not have been done by now. There was too much damage. There was not enough manpower, materials and equipment to rebuild that entire city within three years. Again, like NYC, they could have certainly done better than they did. But no way in hell was it all going to be done.
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You know, I should know more about where NO is at, and why they are there, and I have I think two books at home about this, but I have not gotten to them yet, and that’s my fault, because it’s very important. So I can’t speak to that, and my comment was meant completely about NYC.
 
Darla said:
So do you feel that Russia should continue its occupation?
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The citizens of the affected areas call it liberation, not occupation, and want to be free of Georgian rule.

I think it is a conflict we cannot win and should not get involved in without the UN going first.
 
Why did Russia issue passports en masse to citizens of Georgia?
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got me . So they could go shopping at Russian Malls ? Darn Capitalists.
 
Darla said:
So do you feel that Russia should continue its occupation?
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I'll be brutally honest:

As long as they aren't committing genocide, our politicians should not involve us. There shouldn't be any harsh language, there shouldn't be any threats, and certainly not military aid.

Where was our gov't when Georgia attacked?
 
blackascoal said:
The citizens of the affected areas call it liberation, not occupation, and want to be free of Georgian rule.

I think it is a conflict we cannot win and should not get involved in without the UN going first.
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^^QFT^^

what he said.
 
After invading a sovern nation based on lies and staying there for years we tell Russia to get out of Georgia ? Now that is Gall to the point of absurdity.
 
blackascoal said:
American infrastructure does indeed belong in thsi discussion when we're giving away billions of taxpayer money to pay of aggrssion that could lead to war.
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Well, it's one billion, and I am wondering if the main problem in NO is lack of funds, or, the insertion of right wing ideology into the rebuilding, and lack thereof.
 
Darla said:
You know, I should know more about where NO is at, and why they are there, and I have I think two books at home about this, but I have not gotten to them yet, and that’s my fault, because it’s very important. So I can’t speak to that, and my comment was meant completely about NYC.
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I understand and I definitely agree their was a LOT of bullshit that went on in NYC. The bureaucratic mess in NO is not that bad (from what I have read) but it is also not good.

Consider the construction material, manpower, equipment needed to rebuild ONE home, then multiply it by tens of thousands.
 
blackascoal said:
The citizens of the affected areas call it liberation, not occupation, and want to be free of Georgian rule.

I think it is a conflict we cannot win and should not get involved in without the UN going first.
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Many in the Sudetenland thought it was "liberation" and "unification", but it didn't change that it was a land grab orchestrated by the German government who interceded to ensure the opposition would refuse any deals made by those working to secure a peace...

Pretending that Russia is somehow magically pristine in this seems to be ignoring the past in an attempt to gain current short-term political gain.

The more I learn about this Georgia thing, the more it appears to be a repeat.
 
Darla said:
Well, it's one billion, and I am wondering if the main problem in NO is lack of funds, or, the insertion of right wing ideology into the rebuilding, and lack thereof.
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They had money enough to do far more than they have in NO.

Not sure what you mean by the insertion of rightwing ideology... could you elaborate???
 
blackascoal said:
The citizens of the affected areas call it liberation, not occupation, and want to be free of Georgian rule.

I think it is a conflict we cannot win and should not get involved in without the UN going first.
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Come on bac…that’s the same thing people tell us the Iraqi’s want, and welcome. Military occupation means death, and mass rape, it always has, it always will, and people never welcome that. Sorry, I don’t buy Russia as a liberator any more than I bought George Bush and Dick Cheney as one.
 
Ugh. I'm quitting discussion politics for a while. I can't deal with it anymore. I'm not sure which is worse, talking about lipstick on a pig or people piling on the candidate whose policy is most like one they can agree with.

On Georgia, we have two tickets with two policies.

One thinks the Georgian people should get humanitarian aid.

The other thinks the Georigan government should get humanitarian and military aid, including anti-aircraft weaponry and anti-armor equipment to help Georgia stand up to Russia all while "re-invigorating NATO as a military alliance, not just a political alliance."

The former is the one being criticized for "paying off aggression that could lead to war."

Ugh. The mind reels.
 
Darla said:
Well, it's one billion, and I am wondering if the main problem in NO is lack of funds, or, the insertion of right wing ideology into the rebuilding, and lack thereof.
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There are billions that have been allocated yet have not yet reached the locals. It's kind of a mess and not a lack of funds issue. It's a lack of funds making it through to the ground.
 
Damocles said:
Many in the Sudetenland thought it was "liberation" and "unification", but it didn't change that it was a land grab orchestrated by the German government who interceded to ensure the opposition would refuse any deals made by those working to secure a peace...

Pretending that Russia is somehow magically pristine in this seems to be ignoring the past in an attempt to gain current short-term political gain.

The more I learn about this Georgia thing, the more it appears to be a repeat.
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No one is pretending Russia is pristine.
 
LadyT said:
I'll be brutally honest:

As long as they aren't committing genocide, our politicians should not involve us. There shouldn't be any harsh language, there shouldn't be any threats, and certainly not military aid.

Where was our gov't when Georgia attacked?
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I am in no way advocating the US becoming involved in any way militarily, I am just wondering why we would want to paint the occupying power as somehow morally in the right? I do not believe that.
 
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