Guess who called for the 1 Billion dollar payoff to Georgia .. Biden
- Thread starter blackascoal
- Start date
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Once again you run away.
Let me make this real simple for you.
TELL ME WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD SAAKASHVILLI ATTACK THE RUSSIANS WITHOUT PROVOCATION?
That seems real difficult for you.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
You're missing the point.
Iraq was never ours to divide .. any break the Kurds make from their own country must be decided by Iraqis, not Americans.
Where in the heavens of imperialism does that come from?
Epicurus
Reasonable
Iraq IS an artificial creation of British Imperialism.
Imperialism created it bac, against the will of many who lived there.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Imperialism created America, created Israel .. against the will of the people who lived there.
Iraq IS a nation unto itself today, just as is America and Israel.
What other countries do you believe we have a right to divide up as oil corporations see fit?
Afghanistan?
Iran?
Africa?
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
What you ignore is the bad "judgement" of Obama and Biden in this. What is the difference from what the republicans did with Bush?
Please demonstrate where Obama and McCain differ on Georgia?
Kamala Trump
Verified User
That can of worms is open already though. I hate to say things like that because "that's how they rationalize everything", but it was imperialism in the first place that slapped those people into the same arbitrarily created governmetn.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
How many times have we been down this road before?
Once that money reaches Georgia we have no clue how it's going to be used .. and we don't really care.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
I shall try to make this really friggin simple for you BAC, since you continue to miss the point.....
I cannot think of ONE SINGLE REASON that he would attack Russia without provocation. For the record.... I am the one that said Russia provoked Georgia. YOU are the one that has stated Georgia attacked without provocation.
Which is WHY I asked you to give one reason WHY Georgia would do that when Georgia KNEW that their best troops were in Iraq and Georgia KNEW that Russia had built up a force and was sitting just across the border.
Once again, I'm all for dropping in tents, medical supplies, food and first aid kits. Beyond that, lets keep it moving folks.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Also BAC... since you deliberately ignored that link....
Events prior to August 2008 are described in Georgian–Ossetian conflict.
August 1 - Two roadside bombs hit a Georgian police vehicle on a detour road connecting Georgian-populated villages near the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali. The six occupants (five according to the Russian and OSCE observers[53]) were wounded.[54][55] Late in the evening, intense fighting began between Georgian troops and the forces of South Ossetia. Georgia claimed that South Ossetian separatists[56] had shelled Georgian villages in violation of a ceasefire. South Ossetia denied provoking the conflict. The regional command reported that a militiaman was killed by hostile (Georgian) sniper fire at 6:17pm and that at least 3 civilians were executed[57] around 9pm.[58]
August 2 - The Russian military exercise Caucasus Frontier 2008 ends after roughly one month of operations.[59]
August 5 - Russian ambassador-at-large Yuri Popov warned that Russia would intervene in the event of military conflict.[60][61] Dmitry Medoyev declared from Moscow that volunteers were already arriving, primarily "from North Ossetia", in the Republic of South Ossetia.[62][63]
August 6 - According to the eyewitness evidence of Nezavisimaya gazeta correspondent, August 6, Russia troops and amoured vehicles were already en route towards Tskhinvali, moving along the road between the town of Alagir and the border post of Nizhny Zaramag.[64]
August 7 - President Mikheil Saakashvili ordered Georgian troops to cease fire.[65][66]
According to Georgian military, despite the declared ceasefire, fighting intensified.[67][68] Hours after the declaration of the ceasefire, in a televised address, Mikheil Saakashvili vowed to restore Tbilisi's control by force over what he called the "criminal regime" in South Ossetia and Abkhazia and reinforce order.[68] According to multiple reports in the Russian media[29][30] the units of Russia's 58th Army were ordered to move into South Ossetia through the Roki tunnel on September 7th.
August 8 - Early in the morning, Georgia launched a military offensive to surround and capture Tskhinvali,[72] breaking the terms of the 1992 ceasefire and crossing into the security zone established therein.[73] According to a Russian military official, over ten Russian peacekeepers were killed during the attack.[74] The heavy shelling, which included Georgian rockets being fired into South Ossetia[75] left parts of the capital city in ruins, which Russian government sources claimed amounted to genocide. The news of the shelling was extensively covered by Russian media prior to the military reaction that followed, as Russia claimed to have responded in defense of South Ossetians against what they called "a genocide by Georgian forces."[76] Russia claimed up to 2,000 dead in Tskhinvali following the shelling.[77] The extent of civilian casualties was later disputed in a number of sources.[78] President Saakashvili countered with allegations that the Russians had deployed tanks into the disputed region before he gave the order for Georgian forces to attack,[79] but this was refuted by OSCE.[80] At Russia’s request, the United Nations Security Council held consultations on 7 August at 11pm (US EST time), followed by an open meeting at 1.15am (US EST time) on 8 August, with Georgia attending. During consultations, Council members discussed a press statement that called for an end to hostilities. They were unable, however, to come to a consensus.[81] In the morning, Georgia announced that it had surrounded the city and captured eight South Ossetian villages.[82] An independent Georgian television station announced that Georgian military took control of the city.[83]
Russia sent troops across the Georgian border, into South Ossetia. "
Just so you know what you were missing, by choosing to ignore the link....
Events prior to August 2008 are described in Georgian–Ossetian conflict.
August 1 - Two roadside bombs hit a Georgian police vehicle on a detour road connecting Georgian-populated villages near the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali. The six occupants (five according to the Russian and OSCE observers[53]) were wounded.[54][55] Late in the evening, intense fighting began between Georgian troops and the forces of South Ossetia. Georgia claimed that South Ossetian separatists[56] had shelled Georgian villages in violation of a ceasefire. South Ossetia denied provoking the conflict. The regional command reported that a militiaman was killed by hostile (Georgian) sniper fire at 6:17pm and that at least 3 civilians were executed[57] around 9pm.[58]
August 2 - The Russian military exercise Caucasus Frontier 2008 ends after roughly one month of operations.[59]
August 5 - Russian ambassador-at-large Yuri Popov warned that Russia would intervene in the event of military conflict.[60][61] Dmitry Medoyev declared from Moscow that volunteers were already arriving, primarily "from North Ossetia", in the Republic of South Ossetia.[62][63]
August 6 - According to the eyewitness evidence of Nezavisimaya gazeta correspondent, August 6, Russia troops and amoured vehicles were already en route towards Tskhinvali, moving along the road between the town of Alagir and the border post of Nizhny Zaramag.[64]
August 7 - President Mikheil Saakashvili ordered Georgian troops to cease fire.[65][66]
According to Georgian military, despite the declared ceasefire, fighting intensified.[67][68] Hours after the declaration of the ceasefire, in a televised address, Mikheil Saakashvili vowed to restore Tbilisi's control by force over what he called the "criminal regime" in South Ossetia and Abkhazia and reinforce order.[68] According to multiple reports in the Russian media[29][30] the units of Russia's 58th Army were ordered to move into South Ossetia through the Roki tunnel on September 7th.
August 8 - Early in the morning, Georgia launched a military offensive to surround and capture Tskhinvali,[72] breaking the terms of the 1992 ceasefire and crossing into the security zone established therein.[73] According to a Russian military official, over ten Russian peacekeepers were killed during the attack.[74] The heavy shelling, which included Georgian rockets being fired into South Ossetia[75] left parts of the capital city in ruins, which Russian government sources claimed amounted to genocide. The news of the shelling was extensively covered by Russian media prior to the military reaction that followed, as Russia claimed to have responded in defense of South Ossetians against what they called "a genocide by Georgian forces."[76] Russia claimed up to 2,000 dead in Tskhinvali following the shelling.[77] The extent of civilian casualties was later disputed in a number of sources.[78] President Saakashvili countered with allegations that the Russians had deployed tanks into the disputed region before he gave the order for Georgian forces to attack,[79] but this was refuted by OSCE.[80] At Russia’s request, the United Nations Security Council held consultations on 7 August at 11pm (US EST time), followed by an open meeting at 1.15am (US EST time) on 8 August, with Georgia attending. During consultations, Council members discussed a press statement that called for an end to hostilities. They were unable, however, to come to a consensus.[81] In the morning, Georgia announced that it had surrounded the city and captured eight South Ossetian villages.[82] An independent Georgian television station announced that Georgian military took control of the city.[83]
Russia sent troops across the Georgian border, into South Ossetia. "
Just so you know what you were missing, by choosing to ignore the link....
Dungheap did demonstrate where, and very well.
Kamala Trump
Verified User
It's occupied by a foreign power, held together by bullets, you douche.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I didn't ignore your link .. just took it for what it was .. Wikipedia .. I don't use Wiki for information .. BUT since you do, reconcile this from your own source ..
The 2008 South Ossetia War was a land, air and sea war fought between Georgia, on one side, and the separatist regions, South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and the Russian Federation, on the other. Ongoing skirmishes escalated into war early in the morning[26] of 8 August 2008, when Georgia launched an artillery barrage of Tskhinvali followed by an incursion of Georgian armoured troops into Georgia's break-away region of South Ossetia.[27][28] The units of Russia's 58th Army had already been ordered to move into South Ossetia through the Roki tunnel on September 7th.[29][30]
Within five days of fighting, Georgian forces were routed and Russia troops entered Georgia proper.[31] A preliminary ceasefire was signed on 14 August - 16 August 2008. Following the conflict, Russia withdrew most of its forces, but thousands of Russian troops remain on Georgian soil in what Russia claims to be a peacekeeping role.[32]
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war[/ame]
While you're at it .. reconcile this ..
Lavrov: US says Georgia told not to attack
WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Russia's foreign minister says the United States has assured Moscow that Washington will scrap Georgia's NATO aspirations if Tbilisi attacks South Ossetia.
Sergey Lavrov told reporters in Warsaw on Thursday that «high level» U.S. officials have said if Tbilisi undertakes «an armed action against Ossetia, then it will scrap their plans for NATO membership.
He gave no further details. There was no immediate U.S. comment.
War broke out after Georgian forces launched an offensive Aug. 7 to retake breakaway South Ossetia. Russian forces then routed Georgia's military and drove deep into Georgia.
http://www.pr-inside.com/lavrov-us-says-georgia-told-not-r800538.htm
Your claim that the Russians attacked Georgia first is ridiculous.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I'll be honest .. it is indeed sad to recognize that democrats are no more concerned about the horrors war than are republicans.
As long as it "your guy" proposing it .. no problem, any justification will do.
If someone mentions "draft" and "national security" in the same sentence, Obama will be for it.
Yep, that's me. unconcerned with the horrors of war as long as a democrat is doing it.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
1) I never claimed Russia attacked Georgia first. I stated quite clearly what occured. So quit trying to spin it. I stated that Russia provoked the issue. which they did.
2) There is NOTHING to reconcile. As I stated, Georgia was in the wrong in getting sucked into this by Russia. They should not have used the force that they did in response to the car bomb.
3) the following that you posted.....
"WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Russia's foreign minister says the United States has assured Moscow that Washington will scrap Georgia's NATO aspirations if Tbilisi attacks South Ossetia.
Sergey Lavrov told reporters in Warsaw on Thursday that «high level» U.S. officials have said if Tbilisi undertakes «an armed action against Ossetia, then it will scrap their plans for NATO membership.
He gave no further details. There was no immediate U.S. comment."
....Gives you a very valid reason for Russia to provoke Georgia into this fight.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Just for giggles .. on the money for Katrina rebuilding ..
AP NewsBreak: Auditors say FEMA wasted tens of millions of dollars on no-bid Katrina contracts
WASHINGTON (AP) _ The government wasted millions of dollars on four no-bid contracts it handed out for Hurricane Katrina work, including paying $20 million for a camp for evacuees that was never inspected and proved to be unusable, investigators say.
A report by the Homeland Security Department's office of inspector general, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, is the latest to detail mismanagement in the multibillion-dollar Katrina hurricane recovery effort, which investigators have said wasted at least $1 billion.
The review examined temporary housing contracts awarded without competition to Shaw Group Inc., Bechtel Group Inc., CH2M Hill Companies Ltd. and Fluor Corp. in the days immediately before and after the August 2005storm that smashed into the U.S. Gulf Coast.
It found that FEMA wasted at least $45.9 million on the four contracts that together were initially worth $400 million. FEMA subsequently raised the total amounts for the four contracts twice, both times without competition, to $2 billion and then $3 billion.
more at link --
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-ap-katrina-contracts,0,4516723.story
AP NewsBreak: Auditors say FEMA wasted tens of millions of dollars on no-bid Katrina contracts
WASHINGTON (AP) _ The government wasted millions of dollars on four no-bid contracts it handed out for Hurricane Katrina work, including paying $20 million for a camp for evacuees that was never inspected and proved to be unusable, investigators say.
A report by the Homeland Security Department's office of inspector general, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, is the latest to detail mismanagement in the multibillion-dollar Katrina hurricane recovery effort, which investigators have said wasted at least $1 billion.
The review examined temporary housing contracts awarded without competition to Shaw Group Inc., Bechtel Group Inc., CH2M Hill Companies Ltd. and Fluor Corp. in the days immediately before and after the August 2005storm that smashed into the U.S. Gulf Coast.
It found that FEMA wasted at least $45.9 million on the four contracts that together were initially worth $400 million. FEMA subsequently raised the total amounts for the four contracts twice, both times without competition, to $2 billion and then $3 billion.
more at link --
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-ap-katrina-contracts,0,4516723.story
Kamala Trump
Verified User
Darla, why are you such a brainless partisan hack? There is no controlling what that money is spent for. Explain how there is, if you believe otherwise.