Guess who called for the 1 Billion dollar payoff to Georgia .. Biden

Dungheap said:
Do you know how much aid to New Orleans has been appropriated but not spent yet?
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Screw New Orleans...how freekin' stupid do you have to be to live in a place that is below sea level....its a waste of money...
And they HAVE RECEIVED $25,000,000,000 as of now.....and with the next hurricane or the next, it'll be flooded again in the near future:gives:
 
Dungheap said:
Actually, I don't know the total figure. Suffice it to say that it's a whole hell of a lot more than $1 billion. Lack of funds is not the problem with the New Orleans reconstruction efforts.
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That's actually besides the point is that we have infrastructure that needs to be rebuilt, whether it was damage from Katrina, our piss poor roads and bridges, or whether its from a recent hurricane. At any given point, some city in some state in this country could desperately use those funds for rebuilding their infrastructure. What about them?
 
LadyT said:
That's actually besides the point is that we have infrastructure that needs to be rebuilt, whether it was damage from Katrina, our piss poor roads and bridges, or whether its from a recent hurricane. At any given point, some city in some state in this country could desperately use those funds for rebuilding their infrastructure. What about them?
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Fair point.
 
Darla said:
I just want to ask you something that I asked Desh when we were talking about this. And I am in no way naïve to how McCain used this, and personally considering his campaign advisor’s lobbying for Georgia, and both of their personal relationships with the President of Georgia, I by no means discount the possibility that they actually provoked the President of Georgia into this. But, what we saw was an act of aggression on the part of Georgia, countered by a hugely destructive and very deadly (to a bunch of poor peasants from the looks of them) counter-attack, that was extremely Israel-like in its disproportionateness. We on the left are very able to see the wrongness of Israel’s actions, and sometimes, reactions, and those on the right are always claiming “but Palestine through firecracker at a tank” or whatever. I have seen those positions reversed in this situation, to some extent. Do we agree that Russia was out of line in its deadly reaction?
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We are in agreement that Russia was overly brutal in their retaliation .. but should we be paying Georgia for intentionally provoking Russia into this conflict?

The Georgian president killed 3000 innocent civilians AND attacked and killed a small Russian peace-keeping force which had been there for 15 years by agreement.

Why would the Georgian president do that?

Additionally, be careful putting this on Bush and McCain when you have the evidence in front of you that Brezinski may have had a hand in this THEN ask yourself why neither Biden or Obama speak the truth about what happened AND both Biden and Obama are in full agreeance with the actions taken by the Bush Administration AND it was Biden's idea to pay the Georgians one billion dollars for attacking the Russians.
 
blackascoal said:
The billion dollars is for Georgia's decision to attack Russia.

It doesn't matter whose policy it is .. it is not in the interests of the American people.

The US military and government are merely extensions of American business.

Biden also had the bright idea ofd dividing up Iraq into there pieces .. ahh .. make that "business communties."
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Why is it a bad idea to partition Iraq? That was the smartest thing any Democrat or Republican had suggested.
 
Damocles said:
Many in the Sudetenland thought it was "liberation" and "unification", but it didn't change that it was a land grab orchestrated by the German government who interceded to ensure the opposition would refuse any deals made by those working to secure a peace...

Pretending that Russia is somehow magically pristine in this seems to be ignoring the past in an attempt to gain current short-term political gain.

The more I learn about this Georgia thing, the more it appears to be a repeat.
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Never said Russia was "pristine" .. but they were attacked and provoked .. and if you have different information I'd be glad to hear it.

Pretending Georgia is pristine in this IS the point.
 
Iraq is not a real country in any demographic sense. It is a nation-sized container for warring ethnic groups. Partitioning them into three semi-autonomous regions that share the oil revenues is the only logical solution.
 
blackascoal said:
You are totally confused. It was the Georgians who provoked Russia.
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right... thats why all those Russian tanks were on the border... because Russia was concerned that Georgia might provoke them. We'll also ignore that Russia started granting mass citizenship to the population of the GEORGIAN provinces...yeah that is not wasn't meant to be provactive.

Not to mention the continuing tensions between the two regarding the new pipelines for Caspian oil.

You still haven't given me a reason WHY Georgia would start this unprovoked. They knew the Russian tanks and military were sitting right across the border. They knew the best Georgian troops were in Iraq.

Granted they were stupid to get sucked into this, but give me a reason why they would "provoke" Russia.

Also, if you would be so kind ...please provide a link to the number of dead.
 
Darla said:
Come on bac…that’s the same thing people tell us the Iraqi’s want, and welcome. Military occupation means death, and mass rape, it always has, it always will, and people never welcome that. Sorry, I don’t buy Russia as a liberator any more than I bought George Bush and Dick Cheney as one.
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Here's a couple of articles you should read.

South Ossetia is Liberated
http://neilclark66.blogspot.com/2008/08/south-ossetia-is-liberated-and-georgia.html

U.S. Attacks Russia Through Client State Georgia
http://www.prisonplanet.com/us-attacks-russia-through-client-state-georgia.html

Iraq and South Ossetia are vastly different situations.

If you cannot answer the question of why Saakashvilli, who was put in power by the CIA, attacked the Russians .. then shouldn't you be asking the same questions I am?

Shouldn't you be wondering why Obama and Biden are following the Bush doctrine to the letter .. in fact, in some cases leading the ignorance?

If it is "judgement" why you support Obama .. shouldn't you be concerned?
 
Superfreak said:
right... thats why all those Russian tanks were on the border... because Russia was concerned that Georgia might provoke them. We'll also ignore that Russia started granting mass citizenship to the population of the GEORGIAN provinces...yeah that is not wasn't meant to be provactive.

Not to mention the continuing tensions between the two regarding the new pipelines for Caspian oil.

You still haven't given me a reason WHY Georgia would start this unprovoked. They knew the Russian tanks and military were sitting right across the border. They knew the best Georgian troops were in Iraq.

Granted they were stupid to get sucked into this, but give me a reason why they would "provoke" Russia.

Also, if you would be so kind ...please provide a link to the number of dead.
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Why are you asking me why the Georgians would provoke and attack the Russians .. shouldn't you be the one who knows the answer in your defense of Georgia?

You are obviously unaware of this history ..

South Ossetia eventually became the first region, ahead of Abkhazia (that is of course also getting ready), where the conflict erupted a few hours ago.

The region won the independence from Georgia after the 1991-1992 War for Independence. In 2006, the de facto independent republic of South Ossetia held a referendum about the independence. 99 percent of the votes were in favor of the independence from Georgia.

Now, the Georgian government launched attacks against South Ossetia. A few hours later, Georgia announced full military mobilization and declared a 3-hour ultimatum in which the civilians are demanded to leave their capital city.
http://motls.blogspot.com/2008/08/georgia-attacks-south-ossetia.html
 
Epicurus said:
Iraq is not a real country in any demographic sense. It is a nation-sized container for warring ethnic groups. Partitioning them into three semi-autonomous regions that share the oil revenues is the only logical solution.
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That was a ridiculous "solution" .. starting first with the TRUTH that Iraq is not ours to divide.
 
blackascoal said:
That was a ridiculous "solution" .. starting first with the TRUTH that Iraq is not ours to divide.
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Well it wasn't the place of the British to divide it either, but they did.

Why should we or Iraq have to accept their arbitrary division instead of making our own?
 
blackascoal said:
Partionioning would only suit the interests of the oil barons .. the Iraqis would have none of that idiocy.
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You speak of "Iraqis" as if people there actually think like that. They already think in a partitioned sectarian mindset. Even if they have any loyalty to Iraq as a nation, which is doubtful, their first loyalty is always to their religious and tribal groups.
 
Damocles said:
Please. He has stated about a zillion times how it is all Georgia's fault and that it must be us that asked for them to do it with nary a mouse fart in the direction of spreading some of that "blame" towards Russia. It's all the US and Georgia working in some random scheme to lose land to Russia.
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Yet I haven't read a single word from you on why georgia STARTED this conflict and attacked withour provocation.

Please feel free to elaborate.
 
blackascoal said:
"Why are you asking me why the Georgians would provoke and attack the Russians .. shouldn't you be the one who knows the answer in your defense of Georgia?"

Translation: "No, I cannot think of one reason why they would do so... unless of course they were provoked"

"You are obviously unaware of this history .."

You play this same silly game everytime.... pretending that I don't know the history. All the while you proceed to ignore that they are NOT recognized as independent countries and also pretend that Russias military buildup on the Georgian border was anything other than provokative.

Now, the Georgian government launched attacks against South Ossetia. A few hours later, Georgia announced full military mobilization and declared a 3-hour ultimatum in which the civilians are demanded to leave their capital city.
http://motls.blogspot.com/2008/08/georgia-attacks-south-ossetia.html
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[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war[/ame]

Now look at that timeline of events...
 
Epicurus said:
You speak of "Iraqis" as if people there actually think like that. They already think in a partitioned sectarian mindset. Even if they have any loyalty to Iraq as a nation, which is doubtful, their first loyalty is always to their religious and tribal groups.
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Yes, I speak of Iraqis as if they are a people with brains who does not need US corporations to run their country for them.

You are obviously unaware of Iraqi nationalism.

They only ones who believe they exist seperately are the Kurds.

There is a reason why partitioning was quickly dismissed.
 
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