Gun Monkey Follies: arming teachers

[Phantasmal]

[FONT=&quot]“Based on theory, multivariate models include the presence of an armed guard and control for region, school type (public, nonpublic), and grade level (high school, elementary, other); location (urban, suburban, rural); use of lockdown drills; if the attack was targeted; total number of weapons brought to the scene; number of shooters; and weapon type. Results are presented as incident rate ratios in [/FONT]Table 2[FONT=&quot] and show armed guards were not associated with significant reduction in rates of injuries; in fact, controlling for the aforementioned factors of location and school characteristics, the rate of deaths was 2.83 times greater in schools with an armed guard present (incidence rate ratio, 2.96; 95% CI = 1.43-6.13; [/FONT]P = .003).”

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2776515

 

[TOP]

Reality..
. It's an asset to have resource officers who are armed... That little article from two thousand twenty one doesn't cover ninety seven thousand school statistics...

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

The same people who are terrified of teachers bringing books to school are all for teachers bringing guns to school.

This is a great example of how totally insane the Reichwing has gotten. Well said.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Really? Then why the various book bans (or however you categorize it) going on in red states?

It is not just happening at schools either. Toxic's "solution" to book-banning is to suggest that ppl go to the library. Yet libraries are also under attack. Here in Michigan, the Patmos library was defunded by fascist voters for their refusal to ban certain books related to LGBQT subjects. In Missouri, the library where I took my kids was attacked by homophobic fascists who wanted an employee fired because they wore makeup and nail polish and was allegedly "dressed in drag." Oh, and the LGBTQ books must go, as well.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I was in a Catholic grade school in a NY suburb. During a show & tell, a kid brought his (unloaded) rifle that he used when hunting with dad. I went home and related the days events to my parents. My father, a NYC homicide detective, just shook his head. Years later he said, "could you imagine if I gave you my service revolver for a show & tell"?

He would have lost his job, and you probably would have been expelled.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Again, you dodge the point and much information. As it was stated earlier, teaching today demands more of the teachers than just teaching ... and it can get expensive depending upon the subject and what costs comes out-of-pocket for them.

Stressed out, burned out and dropping out: Why teachers are leaving the classroom

Many teachers are not paid very well. They have to moonlight. They have to have a second or a third job. And now they're asked to buy equipment and resources from their own pocket in order to do that job. That doesn't really incentivize teachers to stay. https://phys.org/news/2022-09-stressed-teachers-classroom.html

My youngest is actually a real teacher, unlike some here who claim the title falsely. She has a masters in special ed and teaches early childhood education for a suburban public school district. It's incredible how much she spends of her own money for classroom supplies, teaching aids, toys, books, art supplies, cleaning products, etc. We help her buy this stuff every summer. She's been teaching for 14 years now, and still barely makes more than a certified nursing assistant up here in this rural area. One of my sons-in-law is a middle school math teacher in rural VT. His wife (my middle daughter) made more as a vet tech than he does as a teacher with a BS in mathematics.

We can do better than this, and we'd better if we want to keep our talented, dedicated educators.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Some people must think there are no teachers who can hunt, recreational shoot, or have guns of their own...

People do not go into teaching to hunt other people. How many people do you know hunt with a handgun, anyways? Or are you suggesting that a teacher who enjoys hunting bring his/her .308 to school every day?

 

[TOP]

Priceless...

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Well, I am a retired teacher and coach...no "various professions"...
I never felt as though I needed to be armed when I was teaching, but I don't have a problem if that's what the system and staff decides...I would never have believed we'd have operational guns in the house, but the world has changed...I don't believe it hurts to be prepared and be able to defend yourself and others...
At home, at school, or just out and about...
If you have any more questions about my career, I'm happy to answer them. Loved teaching...would do it all over again...but I do hope to much needed changes in our schools...it takes a dedicated village though...we need to get those back...

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Talk about disinformation, this post is full of it

Educated people as a rule are more liberal leaning.

Yep. Hence the RWers' hatred of higher education and those who have it or aspire to have it, and their constant b.s. about universities being hotbeds of liberal indoctrination.

 

[TOP]

Let's bet...this much...

I'll cut you in on the winnings, Stone... And a few others around here as well...

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Where? Actually Answer my question...with links please..

Here you go, "teacher." Now pretend you don't see this, and keep twerking after Walt for attention.

Shocking video shows Dolton school security guard dragging student down gymnasium bleachers

 

[TOP]

So no attack... If a security officer tells you to leave the building don't resist...don't argue... Don't spit on him... just leave...

 

[TOP]

Let's bet...

 

[Into the Night]

1. Then what is it in your mental/emotional make up that prompts you to make the incredibly stupid/illogical statements that you do?

You are describing yourself again, Sock.

2. BFD! Your personal experience has NOTHING to do with putting a strapped teacher in a classroom. You can be Wild Bill Hickok on the gun range for all I care, but that doesn't automatically translate into you having the temperament/training to deal with an emergency situation in a crowded school/classroom.

It is unconstitutional to ban or limit any gun, Sock. It is obvious that you would rather have kids murdered by a mass shooter. Gun Free Zones don't work, Sock.

3. So in ADDITION to all the other training teachers have to go through, the using their own salaries to buy supplies, some books, etc., they now have to be trained in how to use a gun in an invasion/riot situation. ARE YOU SHITTING ME? Cops take MONTHS (including probation) before being put on the streets and authorized to use a service weapon to interact with the public in various situations. Who is going to pay for your armed teachers training (as well as purchasing a weapon if they don't have one)? Hell, education budgets go through the wringer on both federal and state levels. What's your "solution"?

Teachers buy their own weapons and ammunition, just all citizens do.

4. Really? See #3. And WTF is this "voluntary carry" stuff?

The proposed law (and existing law in several States). You really should read it.

Are you saying that there will be a rule that the weapon will have to be stored in a safe until needed? Hmm, that's a bit contrary to what you gun monkies have been blathering about for the last few years ... saying that a strapped teacher would have prevented things like Columbine, etc. Get your act together, man!

It probably would've.

5. Not "elsewhere" ... ANYWHERE in the building...which means that your strapped hero (or heroine) would have to race through the building's hallways hoping to find the perps and get the drop on them .... assuming there are no kids/other teachers running like hell trying to get out. See, when YOU don't read carefully and try to rewrite what is written, you make a fool out of yourself.

No need to race anywhere.

6. See #5 and #3

Repetition fallacy (chanting).

7. Given how I easily deconstructed your blather above, the first 3 words of your last sentence is a dubious statement at best.

You have deconstructed nothing. All you've done is chant about your hoplophobia.

 

[Into the Night]

What you are saying is you are starting with less than one. One security guard takes breaks, eats lunch, gets sick, takes a vacation, or whatever... And then you have no security guard.



Social Security alone is 6.2%. It differs by state, but the rest of the taxes are going to get you well above 10%. There is no way on earth you can get it down to 6%. Consider yourself lucky if you get it as low as 50%.



Almost all the school shootings have happened in schools with armed security guards, so clearly it has done nothing to end mass shootings.



I am curious to how you came by those numbers. Temporary Assistance for Needy Families(commonly called Welfare) has a total budget of $16.5 billion, about 1% of your claim.



Wow... You clearly have no idea what sort of training a school security guard needs. Your answer is the worst answer I could think of. And it is part of the problem here. We have violent thugs, who have criminal convictions, and no real training, dealing with obnoxious, troubled children, and they think threatening with a gun is the solution. "Stop chewing gum, or I will kill you with this gun."



Real law enforcement costs a lot more money. "Whatever"(your word) are cheaper, but often come with criminal records. As long as the criminal records are not felonies, they can be armed "whatevers" in a school.

True Scotsman fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Ya got stamina in dealing with the insipidly stubborn gun monkey mentality, kid! Kudos to you for systematically deconstructing the BS.

The BS is YOURS, Sock. You cannot project YOUR problems on anybody else.

 

[Walt]

True Scotsman fallacy.

The employer Social Security tax is 6.2%, so overhead is well above 6% truth.

 

[Into the Night]

You should probably not say "trust me", when you get things blatantly wrong. The employee does pay 6.2%, but so does the employer. Together they pay 12.4%. Individuals will not be paying the employers taxes out of their own salaries, it just is not legal. 6% overhead is just plain impossible.

It is quite practical. Individuals pay ALL of the social security tax, whether the employer withholds it for them or not. See the 2023 tax code. Individuals pay ALL of the income tax too, regardless of whether the employer withholds for them or not.

That makes me question every other issue you say "trust me" on.

No it doesn't. You are just a bulverist.

I have never heard of a school that has never had any sort of violence,

and I do not believe it is possible.
Of course kids are going to shove each other every now and then. I would hope that your armed security guard would not start shooting every time that happened.
So your claim of no violence is nonsense, but maybe there has been no school shootings?
Have there been any tiger attacks? Both are extremely rare, so it would be tough to give credit for the lack of either to armed security guards.[/QUOTE]
Paradox. Irrational. You cannot argue both sides of a paradox, Sock.

Does it work? There have been far, far more incidents of armed security guards attacking students then there were ever incidents of school shootings.

Fiction. Argument from randU fallacy. Making things up won't work, Sock.

Almost all school shootings happen in schools with armed security guards.

Fiction. Argument from randU fallacy. Making things up won't work, Sock.

I am not saying that armed security guards are always a bad idea, but they are not magic. Just having them does not solve all problems as you claim.

Apparently having them is pretty effective.

School shootings almost always happen in right wing areas.

The SDTC is not a 'right wing area'. The SOTCO is not a 'right wing area'. The SOTNY is not a 'right wing area'. The City of Chicago is not a 'right wing area'. Schools themselves are not a 'right wing area'.

Gun Free Zones don't work, Sock.

That is just a fact.

Learn what 'fact' means. Made up shit is not a 'fact', Sock.

You could argue that it is a non causation correlation, but it is a correlation.

It is a direct correlation. Gun Free Zones are an invention of the Democrats. The mind fuck Democrats do to kids through their deviancy teachings and psychoquackery creates mass shooters. DEMOCRATS are the direct cause of mass shooters.

Dealing with the behavior problems of hundreds of children is a cushy gig?

What 'behavior problems of hundreds of children'??

And it works by suspending federal payroll tax laws?

He's not talking about federal payroll tax laws here, Sock. You can't pivot away like that!

 

[Into the Night]

1. No need to look...that would be time you'd never get back...why would I claim another profession? I'm a retired teacher and coach...
2. I'll take a look eventually...I'm sure that is one point of view...
3. I agree...but keep in mind that during the school day, that classroom, those children, and others in the building are your family...
4. I have no problem with universal back ground checks, including gun shows...Let's hope many respect and treat owning or possessing guns better than owning or possessing a car...
Mental illness and illegal gun sales are our biggest problems if we're mentioning military grade guns...and weapons in general, if we're going to be honest...

Universal background checks are unconstitutional, violating the 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments and Article I.
Attempting to ban or limit any gun or any other weapon is unconstitutional, violating the 2nd amendment and Article I.
Background checks ARE conducted before issuing a driver's license as well, and is also unconstitutional.