Gun Monkey Follies: arming teachers

[Walt]

\Individuals pay ALL of the social security tax, whether the employer withholds it for them or not. See the 2023 tax code.

That is not the way Social Security taxes work. If you are paid $100k in a year, 6.2% comes from your salary(and is withheld by the employer), and 6.2% comes from the employer. So you would be paid $6.2k less than your stated salary, and your employer would have to chip in $6.2k more than your stated salary.

It is becoming painfully clear that none of the alt right posters have ever paid anyone a salary, and have never been interested enough in their own salary to figure out what is going on
Individuals pay ALL of the income tax too, regardless of whether the employer withholds for them or not.

The rest of the post goes downhill from there.

 

[Into the Night]

The employer Social Security tax is 6.2%, so overhead is well above 6% truth.

The individual pays for BOTH halves, Sock. See the 2023 tax code. The employer simply withholds the tax for the individual.

 

[Into the Night]

Armed security guards attacking students?

He's making shit up again, attempting to fear monger and justify his hoplophobia.

 

[Into the Night]

It keeps happening.

Blatant lie.

 

[Into the Night]

Armed security guards do not stop school shooters. The armed guard at Uvalde hid.

There was no armed guard at Uvalde when the shooting began, Phanty.

 

[Into the Night]

Armed resource officers are an asset... And there are Plenty of qualified people to hire... I was always very comfortable and felt protected knowing our resource officers were there... And the kids totally respected them... There are bad examples in every profession...

Phanty is trying to portrait a person that wasn't there. There was no armed guard at Uvalde when the shooting began.

 

[Into the Night]

That is not the way Social Security taxes work.

It certainly is, Sock. See the 2023 tax code.

It is becoming painfully clear that none of the alt right posters have ever paid anyone a salary,

There is no such thing as an 'alt right', Sock. Buzzword fallacy.
I run a successful company manufacturing instrumentation for a variety of industries, Sock. You are simply denying the 2023 tax code.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Again, you dodge the point and much information. As it was stated earlier, teaching today demands more of the teachers than just teaching ... and it can get expensive depending upon the subject and what costs comes out-of-pocket for them.

Stressed out, burned out and dropping out: Why teachers are leaving the classroom

Many teachers are not paid very well. They have to moonlight. They have to have a second or a third job. And now they're asked to buy equipment and resources from their own pocket in order to do that job. That doesn't really incentivize teachers to stay. https://phys.org/news/2022-09-stress...classroom.html

My youngest is actually a real teacher, unlike some here who claim the title falsely. She has a masters in special ed and teaches early childhood education for a suburban public school district. It's incredible how much she spends of her own money for classroom supplies, teaching aids, toys, books, art supplies, cleaning products, etc. We help her buy this stuff every summer. She's been teaching for 14 years now, and still barely makes more than a certified nursing assistant up here in this rural area. One of my sons-in-law is a middle school math teacher in rural VT. His wife (my middle daughter) made more as a vet tech than he does as a teacher with a BS in mathematics.

We can do better than this, and we'd better if we want to keep our talented, dedicated educators.

Tell me about it! My youngest brother (now 58) has been a teacher for years and private tutor. Not only the money, but the time put into prep, meetings with other teachers, PTA, etc.

Tell your kid I thank her for her service!

 

[Matt Dillon]

Here's someone born and bred in the state who is now pointing something incredibly stupid being done by his local government ... but it might as well be every state in the USA. Check it out:

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
1. Hmm, if it was worth it, I would go back a few years on this site regarding all your posts where you claimed a current or past profession. I'm just working off memory, so it's a subjective. I wonder if others who have been here as long as I who have a similar experience/memory? But for the sake of argument, we'll operate on the premise that you're legit here.

2. FYI: Stop Arming Teachers https://www.everytown.org/solutions/arming-teachers/

3. Being armed in your home or CCW is a HELL of a lot different in going into a grade or high school strapped.

4. If we don't have universal background checks (including gun shows) and treat owning a gun like you own a car, we will "get back" nothing. If we don't stop this idiocy of selling military grade weapons to civilians, then we will "get back" nothing.

1. No need to look...that would be time you'd never get back...why would I claim another profession? I'm a retired teacher and coach...
2. I'll take a look eventually...I'm sure that is one point of view...
3. I agree...but keep in mind that during the school day, that classroom, those children, and others in the building are your family...
4. I have no problem with universal back ground checks, including gun shows...Let's hope many respect and treat owning or possessing guns better than owning or possessing a car...
Mental illness and illegal gun sales are our biggest problems if we're mentioning military grade guns...and weapons in general, if we're going to be honest...

1. Why? Because like many others here over the years, you think it enhances/validates/supports your personal supposition and conjecture on any topic. Problem with that is that when given critical analysis, your "professional experience" doesn't cut the mustard logically, much less rationally.

2. So you haven't looked at the material presented, but you already have a preconceived notion of it.

3. NO, you can't agree then turn around and essentially state the same premise. Your school "family" is radically different from your real, home family. For starters, you don't have 100% say in those kids lives as you do with your own. Also, you sure as hell are not having sex or fathering kids with any of your fellow female teachers (unless you're in the unique and rare situation of teaching where your spouse does also).

4. Again, if you have no problem with what I put forth initially, then you shouldn't try to split hairs. To clarify, I'm talking about registering guns like you do cars, which includes registering sales. And no, mental illness and illegal gun sales are NOT the biggest problem.....the easiness of buying guns in some states by folk with a mental history is the problem. The lax gun laws in some states make it easy for "iron pipelines" to states with more stringent laws. The purchaser buying multiple weapons over a period of time may not have a criminal record...but their associates may have. This has been proven. AND if you remove military grade weapons like the AR-15 style, you pare down the ability of nut jobs and anarchist to do that much more damage. Matters of fact, matters of history.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
1. Then what is it in your mental/emotional make up that prompts you to make the incredibly stupid/illogical statements that you do?

2. BFD! Your personal experience has NOTHING to do with putting a strapped teacher in a classroom. You can be Wild Bill Hickok on the gun range for all I care, but that doesn't automatically translate into you having the temperament/training to deal with an emergency situation in a crowded school/classroom.

3. So in ADDITION to all the other training teachers have to go through, the using their own salaries to buy supplies, some books, etc., they now have to be trained in how to use a gun in an invasion/riot situation. ARE YOU SHITTING ME? Cops take MONTHS (including probation) before being put on the streets and authorized to use a service weapon to interact with the public in various situations. Who is going to pay for your armed teachers training (as well as purchasing a weapon if they don't have one)? Hell, education budgets go through the wringer on both federal and state levels. What's your "solution"?

4. Really? See #3. And WTF is this "voluntary carry" stuff? Are you saying that there will be a rule that the weapon will have to be stored in a safe until needed? Hmm, that's a bit contrary to what you gun monkies have been blathering about for the last few years ... saying that a strapped teacher would have prevented things like Columbine, etc. Get your act together, man!

5. Not "elsewhere" ... ANYWHERE in the building...which means that your strapped hero (or heroine) would have to race through the building's hallways hoping to find the perps and get the drop on them .... assuming there are no kids/other teachers running like hell trying to get out. See, when YOU don't read carefully and try to rewrite what is written, you make a fool out of yourself.

6. See #5 and #3

7. Given how I easily deconstructed your blather above, the first 3 words of your last sentence is a dubious statement at best.

RB60 = Really Boorish 60 yr. old.

What is stupid and illogical (other than the fact you cannot discern simple comprehension)?
Bottom line. An armed/trained teacher could be there BEFORE the police arrive to defuse a situation.
You "deconstructed" nothing, other than adding a lot of babbling bullshit. You are a stupid illogical fool.

And as usual, when taken to task point for point on his statements and assertions, Arby is proven wrong logically, factually and rationally.

But in typical gun monkey fashion, he just ignores all else and parrots his original drivel as if that's proof he is correct.



Once again, I've reduced Arby to a sputtering 12 year old stamping his widdle feet in frustration. Now he'll seek solace with the other gun monkies while getting nods from the man in the mirror.


RB60 = Really Boorish 60 year old.

 

[Matt Dillon]

And as usual, when taken to task point for point on his statements and assertions, Arby is proven wrong logically, factually and rationally.

But in typical gun monkey fashion, he just ignores all else and parrots his original drivel as if that's proof he is correct.



Once again, I've reduced Arby to a sputtering 12 year old stamping his widdle feet in frustration. Now he'll seek solace with the other gun monkies while getting nods from the man in the mirror.


RB60 = Really Boorish 60 year old.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Umm, Matty? That only works on grade school/high school kids. It adds/contributes nothing to the conversation. Grow up.

 

[Matt Dillon]

Umm, Matty? That only works on grade school/high school kids. It adds/contributes nothing to the conversation. Grow up.

 

[Walt]

There was no armed guard at Uvalde when the shooting began, Phanty.

Uvalde school system had a police force made up of armed security that while having no formal training are legally police officers. There were also a dozen actual police officers on the site at the time. Robb was one of the best armed schools in America. The problem, none of the armed people were willing to die to save Hispanic kids.

 

[IBDaMann]

You should probably not say "trust me", when you get things blatantly wrong.

I make sure to never get anything wrong. Trust me.

The employee does pay 6.2%, but so does the employer.

Nope.

Governmental units, such as states and their political subdivisions, are not generally subject to federal income tax. Political subdivisions of a state are entities with one or more of the sovereign powers of the state such as the power to tax. Typically they include counties or municipalities and their agencies or departments. Charitable contributions to governmental units are tax-deductible under section 170(c)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code if made for a public purpose.

An entity that is not a political subdivision but that performs an essential government function may not be subject to federal income tax, pursuant to Code section 115(1). The income of such entities is excluded from the definition of gross income as long as the income (1) is derived from a public utility or the exercise of an essential government function, and (2) accrues to a State, a political subdivision of a state, or the District of Columbia. Contributions made to entities whose income is excluded income under section 115 may be tax deductible to contributors.

80K and 6% is what I'm going with; it's more realistic and your fabricated numbers are probably better suited for planets in other quadrants.

I have never heard of a school that has never had any sort of violence, and I do not believe it is possible. Of course kids are going to shove each other every now and then.

You simply won't be honest. We're discussing violence coming in from outside, not internal tyrannical overlordship.

Does it work? There have been far, far more incidents of armed security guards attacking students

There have been no incidents of Sheriff's deputies attacking any students.

Almost all school shootings happen in schools with armed security guards.

You are not discussing in good faith. You are pretending as though we haven't already covered this. All but one have occurred in leftist-mandated defenselessness zones.

I am not saying that armed security guards are always a bad idea, but they are not magic.

Have you pushed this hard to have police eliminated from your city? Your claim is that what we're seeing is a lot of cops getting violent and shooting citizens? Your claim is that having a police department isn't always a bad idea?

School shootings almost always happen in right wing areas.

You're dishonestly pretending that we haven't already debunked your disinformation. School shootings always, except for one time, happen in leftist-controlled areas where schools are mandated to be defenselessness zones. Leftists cause mass shootings and cause the deaths of our children.

Dealing with the behavior problems of hundreds of children is a cushy gig?

The armed security don't deal with the problems of any children; they protect the students and the faculty.

I knew you had no idea what was involved in armed security.

 

[Walt]

Nope.

Governmental units, such as states and their political subdivisions, are not generally subject to federal income tax.

We are talking about payroll tax. Employees and employers are subject to Social Security taxes if they employ people.

 

[Into the Night]

Uvalde school system had a police force made up of armed security that while having no formal training are legally police officers. There were also a dozen actual police officers on the site at the time. Robb was one of the best armed schools in America. The problem, none of the armed people were willing to die to save Hispanic kids.

There was no armed guard at Uvalde when the shooting began, Sybil.

 

[Into the Night]

We are talking about payroll tax. Employees and employers are subject to Social Security taxes if they employ people.

Just the employee. The employer just withholds 6%. The employee pays the other 6% with each paycheck.
See the 2023 tax code.

Income taxes ARE payroll taxes, Sybil.

 

[Walt]

There was no armed guard at Uvalde when the shooting began, Sybil.

There were a dozen police that followed Ramos into the building. There was supposed to be an armed guard in the building. He was being paid to be there, but may not have been there. Uvalde's police, and guards have a lot of answer for. They terrorized that school with constant gun drills, and then when they actually had to do something, they chickened out.