Gun Monkey Follies: arming teachers

[IBDaMann]

There are about 100,000 schools in the USA. If we figure four armed security guards per school

Let's start with just one armed security guard per school, like in my location. Just the conspicuous presence of the [law enforcement] vehicle, prominently displayed at the entrance, is sufficient deterrence for violent crime.

$50k salary, and 50% overhead,

$80k salary and 6% overhead.

it would cost about $30 billion.

$30 billion would be less than rounding error, and a more accurate figure of only $8.5 billion wouldn't even be enough for anyone to notice, yet it would end the mass-shooting problem created by leftists and their defenselessness zones.

But the next question is what do we get for that $30 billion.

If We the People were asked to consider that welfare in the US skyrocketed from $773 billion to $1.1 trillion between 2019 and 2023 (well above the rate of inflation) and were asked if We would be willing to cut $30 billion directly from welfare spending to pay for saving our children, I bet the answer would be a resounding "Yes!"

If We the People were then told "Oooops, my bad, it will only cost $8.5 billion", I bet that We would respond "Why haven't We done so already?"

When the subsequent answer is "We haven't done so already because the DNC has effectively infused disinformation into all discussions that the proposed solution involves requiring teachers to perform the armed security function by toting .44 Magnums and acting like Clint Eastwood" ... then you'll get to answer for that.

We would not get well trained people.

False. We'll get trained professionals who regularly score very well at the range.

In many red areas of America,

Sedona, Arizona is the only red area of America of which I am familiar. Otherwise I don't see any need to subdivide over coloring.

the armed school security guards have criminal records.

Typically, law enforcement don't have criminal records.

We are giving guns and children to people who could not sit in a bar without becoming violent.

Oooooh, the fear and paranoia surrounding the prevention of mass shootings is terrifying.

I'm not panicking. My children attended a school in an area/region in which all the schools have armed security and in which there has never been any sort of threat of violence whatsoever in any of the schools, ... and the parents never feared and panicked and worried to death as you would have them do, but instead remained confident and satisfied that their children would continue receiving an education without any threat of violence.

Kids can be obnoxious, so we are seeing more and more of these security guards turning violent.

That's not what we're seeing.

Who knows some of these criminals with guns might bring a book or two with them also... Why is the alt right worried about the books?

Who's the alt right?

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Are you fucking stupid or what? What the hell does OFF THE CLOCK, PRIVATE TIME ACTIVITIES have to do with the absurd notion of arming teachers in the class room (grade to high school)? Are YOU proposing one or two gun owners that you described who happen to be teachers be allowed to pack in class? Hmm, that doesn't make sense, as an attack can happen ANYWHERE in a building. For your gun monkey fantasy to work, there would have to be a larger portion of the faculty to be armed at all times. That means purchase and training. Who's going to pay for that? Hell, most teachers foot the bill for supplies and such in the classroom as it is!

Think before you type, son. You're an embarrassment.

RB = Really Boorish 60 year old.

Well, to answer your first question, no, I am not stupid or what.
To answer your second question, familiarization and experience with a weapon.
To answer your third question, yes. If properly trained or can prove equivalent.
To answer your fourth question, the teacher pays for it. Carry would be voluntary.
Yep (since you are now rambling), it's possible something could happen elsewhere
in the building. But common sense says that an armed teacher will get to the
disturbance before the police do.

I do think before I type, Einstein. I also think you're incompetent.

1. Then what is it in your mental/emotional make up that prompts you to make the incredibly stupid/illogical statements that you do?

2. BFD! Your personal experience has NOTHING to do with putting a strapped teacher in a classroom. You can be Wild Bill Hickok on the gun range for all I care, but that doesn't automatically translate into you having the temperament/training to deal with an emergency situation in a crowded school/classroom.

3. So in ADDITION to all the other training teachers have to go through, the using their own salaries to buy supplies, some books, etc., they now have to be trained in how to use a gun in an invasion/riot situation. ARE YOU SHITTING ME? Cops take MONTHS (including probation) before being put on the streets and authorized to use a service weapon to interact with the public in various situations. Who is going to pay for your armed teachers training (as well as purchasing a weapon if they don't have one)? Hell, education budgets go through the wringer on both federal and state levels. What's your "solution"?

4. Really? See #3. And WTF is this "voluntary carry" stuff? Are you saying that there will be a rule that the weapon will have to be stored in a safe until needed? Hmm, that's a bit contrary to what you gun monkies have been blathering about for the last few years ... saying that a strapped teacher would have prevented things like Columbine, etc. Get your act together, man!

5. Not "elsewhere" ... ANYWHERE in the building...which means that your strapped hero (or heroine) would have to race through the building's hallways hoping to find the perps and get the drop on them .... assuming there are no kids/other teachers running like hell trying to get out. See, when YOU don't read carefully and try to rewrite what is written, you make a fool out of yourself.

6. See #5 and #3

7. Given how I easily deconstructed your blather above, the first 3 words of your last sentence is a dubious statement at best.

RB60 = Really Boorish 60 yr. old.

 

[Walt]

Let's start with just one armed security guard per school, like in my location.

What you are saying is you are starting with less than one. One security guard takes breaks, eats lunch, gets sick, takes a vacation, or whatever... And then you have no security guard.

$80k salary and 6% overhead.

Social Security alone is 6.2%. It differs by state, but the rest of the taxes are going to get you well above 10%. There is no way on earth you can get it down to 6%. Consider yourself lucky if you get it as low as 50%.

yet it would end the mass-shooting problem created by leftists and their defenselessness zones.

Almost all the school shootings have happened in schools with armed security guards, so clearly it has done nothing to end mass shootings.

If We the People were asked to consider that welfare in the US skyrocketed from $773 billion to $1.1 trillion between 2019 and 2023

I am curious to how you came by those numbers. Temporary Assistance for Needy Families(commonly called Welfare) has a total budget of $16.5 billion, about 1% of your claim.

We'll get trained professionals who regularly score very well at the range.

Wow... You clearly have no idea what sort of training a school security guard needs. Your answer is the worst answer I could think of. And it is part of the problem here. We have violent thugs, who have criminal convictions, and no real training, dealing with obnoxious, troubled children, and they think threatening with a gun is the solution. "Stop chewing gum, or I will kill you with this gun."

Typically, law enforcement don't have criminal records.

Real law enforcement costs a lot more money. "Whatever"(your word) are cheaper, but often come with criminal records. As long as the criminal records are not felonies, they can be armed "whatevers" in a school.

 

[Taichiliberal]

What you are saying is you are starting with less than one. One security guard takes breaks, eats lunch, gets sick, takes a vacation, or whatever... And then you have no security guard.



Social Security alone is 6.2%. It differs by state, but the rest of the taxes are going to get you well above 10%. There is no way on earth you can get it down to 6%. Consider yourself lucky if you get it as low as 50%.



Almost all the school shootings have happened in schools with armed security guards, so clearly it has done nothing to end mass shootings.



I am curious to how you came by those numbers. Temporary Assistance for Needy Families(commonly called Welfare) has a total budget of $16.5 billion, about 1% of your claim.



Wow... You clearly have no idea what sort of training a school security guard needs. Your answer is the worst answer I could think of. And it is part of the problem here. We have violent thugs, who have criminal convictions, and no real training, dealing with obnoxious, troubled children, and they think threatening with a gun is the solution. "Stop chewing gum, or I will kill you with this gun."



Real law enforcement costs a lot more money. "Whatever"(your word) are cheaper, but often come with criminal records. As long as the criminal records are not felonies, they can be armed "whatevers" in a school.

Ya got stamina in dealing with the insipidly stubborn gun monkey mentality, kid! Kudos to you for systematically deconstructing the BS.

 

[RB 60]

1. Then what is it in your mental/emotional make up that prompts you to make the incredibly stupid/illogical statements that you do?

2. BFD! Your personal experience has NOTHING to do with putting a strapped teacher in a classroom. You can be Wild Bill Hickok on the gun range for all I care, but that doesn't automatically translate into you having the temperament/training to deal with an emergency situation in a crowded school/classroom.

3. So in ADDITION to all the other training teachers have to go through, the using their own salaries to buy supplies, some books, etc., they now have to be trained in how to use a gun in an invasion/riot situation. ARE YOU SHITTING ME? Cops take MONTHS (including probation) before being put on the streets and authorized to use a service weapon to interact with the public in various situations. Who is going to pay for your armed teachers training (as well as purchasing a weapon if they don't have one)? Hell, education budgets go through the wringer on both federal and state levels. What's your "solution"?

4. Really? See #3. And WTF is this "voluntary carry" stuff? Are you saying that there will be a rule that the weapon will have to be stored in a safe until needed? Hmm, that's a bit contrary to what you gun monkies have been blathering about for the last few years ... saying that a strapped teacher would have prevented things like Columbine, etc. Get your act together, man!

5. Not "elsewhere" ... ANYWHERE in the building...which means that your strapped hero (or heroine) would have to race through the building's hallways hoping to find the perps and get the drop on them .... assuming there are no kids/other teachers running like hell trying to get out. See, when YOU don't read carefully and try to rewrite what is written, you make a fool out of yourself.

6. See #5 and #3

7. Given how I easily deconstructed your blather above, the first 3 words of your last sentence is a dubious statement at best.

RB60 = Really Boorish 60 yr. old.

What is stupid and illogical (other than the fact you cannot discern simple comprehension)?
Bottom line. An armed/trained teacher could be there BEFORE the police arrive to defuse a situation.
You "deconstructed" nothing, other than adding a lot of babbling bullshit. You are a stupid illogical fool.

 

[Into the Night]

A 50% overhead above salary would be pretty standard.

Nowhere near it.

It might be higher, and could be lower, but you cannot go wrong estimating 50%. So if you pay someone $50k, you are going to be spending about $75k.

You are making shit up again.

What is it? Well obviously 6.2% for the employers portion of the Social Security. There are a couple of other taxes, including unemployment. There are various benefits, like health insurance. There is insurance against liabilities. There is uniforms, guns, training, etc. There are expenses in finding people to hire, and expenses in administering and paying those people.

Contriving costs is making shit up.

I could go on and on. End of the day, you consider yourself lucky if you only have a 50% overhead.

Nowhere near it, Sybil. You are hallucinating again.

 

[Into the Night]

1. Hmm, if it was worth it, I would go back a few years on this site regarding all your posts where you claimed a current or past profession. I'm just working off memory, so it's a subjective. I wonder if others who have been here as long as I who have a similar experience/memory? But for the sake of argument, we'll operate on the premise that you're legit here.

2. FYI: Stop Arming Teachers https://www.everytown.org/solutions/arming-teachers/

3. Being armed in your home or CCW is a HELL of a lot different in going into a grade or high school strapped.

4. If we don't have universal background checks (including gun shows) and treat owning a gun like you own a car, we will "get back" nothing. If we don't stop this idiocy of selling military grade weapons to civilians, then we will "get back" nothing.

Unconstitutional.
Civilians can own any weapon. Neither YOU nor anybody else gets to choose the weapon someone else may own (legally, anyway).

 

[Into the Night]

What you are saying is you are starting with less than one. One security guard takes breaks, eats lunch, gets sick, takes a vacation, or whatever... And then you have no security guard.



Social Security alone is 6.2%. It differs by state, but the rest of the taxes are going to get you well above 10%. There is no way on earth you can get it down to 6%. Consider yourself lucky if you get it as low as 50%.



Almost all the school shootings have happened in schools with armed security guards, so clearly it has done nothing to end mass shootings.



I am curious to how you came by those numbers. Temporary Assistance for Needy Families(commonly called Welfare) has a total budget of $16.5 billion, about 1% of your claim.



Wow... You clearly have no idea what sort of training a school security guard needs. Your answer is the worst answer I could think of. And it is part of the problem here. We have violent thugs, who have criminal convictions, and no real training, dealing with obnoxious, troubled children, and they think threatening with a gun is the solution. "Stop chewing gum, or I will kill you with this gun."



Real law enforcement costs a lot more money. "Whatever"(your word) are cheaper, but often come with criminal records. As long as the criminal records are not felonies, they can be armed "whatevers" in a school.

Argument from randU fallacies. Prosecutor's fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Ya got stamina in dealing with the insipidly stubborn gun monkey mentality, kid! Kudos to you for systematically deconstructing the BS.

You can't desconstruct BS by using BS, Sock.
It is unconstitutional to ban or limit any gun or accessory to any gun.

 

[IBDaMann]

What you are saying is you are starting with less than one. One security guard takes breaks, eats lunch, gets sick, takes a vacation, or whatever... And then you have no security guard.

Perhaps you are simply in denial. I already explained to you that all the schools in my area/region have one [law enforcement] assigned, and there hasn't ever been any sort of violence. This solution works. Let's go with this.

Social Security alone is 6.2%.

The individual pays that out of his salary. We can stick with the 80K salary and 6% overhead. Trust me.

Almost all the school shootings have happened in schools with armed security guards,

All but one happened in schools that were leftist-mandated defenselessness zones. The one that had an armed security guy had a screwed-up situation. Obviously they didn't include much deterrence in their program, and I don't know what their qualification criteria was.

I am curious to how you came by those numbers.

I'd say the same of yours, but I already know that you pulled them out of your hindquarters. You haven't written anything that is on the level.

The figures I cited were the combined State and local spending on public assistance.

Wow... You clearly have no idea what sort of training a school security guard needs.

Wow! You've never had any clue about anything you've ever posted!

We can do this all day.

Real law enforcement costs a lot more money.

Nope. 80K is higher end for those who are assigned this kind of detail. It's a very cush gig for them as well.

So, rather than pretend to tell me how the solution in my area/region works, I will tell you how it works, and the results are outstanding. If you weren't an obedient leftist, you'd be rushing to get youz summa dis.

 

[Walt]

The individual pays that out of his salary. We can stick with the 80K salary and 6% overhead. Trust me.

You should probably not say "trust me", when you get things blatantly wrong. The employee does pay 6.2%, but so does the employer. Together they pay 12.4%. Individuals will not be paying the employers taxes out of their own salaries, it just is not legal. 6% overhead is just plain impossible.

That makes me question every other issue you say "trust me" on.

I already explained to you that all the schools in my area/region have one [law enforcement] assigned, and there hasn't ever been any sort of violence. This solution works. Let's go with this.

I have never heard of a school that has never had any sort of violence, and I do not believe it is possible. Of course kids are going to shove each other every now and then. I would hope that your armed security guard would not start shooting every time that happened.

So your claim of no violence is nonsense, but maybe there has been no school shootings? Have there been any tiger attacks? Both are extremely rare, so it would be tough to give credit for the lack of either to armed security guards.

Does it work? There have been far, far more incidents of armed security guards attacking students then there were ever incidents of school shootings. Almost all school shootings happen in schools with armed security guards. I am not saying that armed security guards are always a bad idea, but they are not magic. Just having them does not solve all problems as you claim.

All but one happened in schools that were leftist-mandated defenselessness zones.

School shootings almost always happen in right wing areas. That is just a fact. You could argue that it is a non causation correlation, but it is a correlation.

It's a very cush gig for them as well.

Dealing with the behavior problems of hundreds of children is a cushy gig?

I will tell you how it works, and the results are outstanding.

And it works by suspending federal payroll tax laws?

 

[TOP]

1. Hmm, if it was worth it, I would go back a few years on this site regarding all your posts where you claimed a current or past profession. I'm just working off memory, so it's a subjective. I wonder if others who have been here as long as I who have a similar experience/memory? But for the sake of argument, we'll operate on the premise that you're legit here.

2. FYI: Stop Arming Teachers https://www.everytown.org/solutions/arming-teachers/

3. Being armed in your home or CCW is a HELL of a lot different in going into a grade or high school strapped.

4. If we don't have universal background checks (including gun shows) and treat owning a gun like you own a car, we will "get back" nothing. If we don't stop this idiocy of selling military grade weapons to civilians, then we will "get back" nothing.

1. No need to look...that would be time you'd never get back...why would I claim another profession? I'm a retired teacher and coach...
2. I'll take a look eventually...I'm sure that is one point of view...
3. I agree...but keep in mind that during the school day, that classroom, those children, and others in the building are your family...
4. I have no problem with universal back ground checks, including gun shows...Let's hope many respect and treat owning or possessing guns better than owning or possessing a car...
Mental illness and illegal gun sales are our biggest problems if we're mentioning military grade guns...and weapons in general, if we're going to be honest...

 

[TOP]

You should probably not say "trust me", when you get things blatantly wrong. The employee does pay 6.2%, but so does the employer. Together they pay 12.4%. Individuals will not be paying the employers taxes out of their own salaries, it just is not legal. 6% overhead is just plain impossible.

That makes me question every other issue you say "trust me" on.



I have never heard of a school that has never had any sort of violence, and I do not believe it is possible. Of course kids are going to shove each other every now and then. I would hope that your armed security guard would not start shooting every time that happened.

So your claim of no violence is nonsense, but maybe there has been no school shootings? Have there been any tiger attacks? Both are extremely rare, so it would be tough to give credit for the lack of either to armed security guards.

Does it work? There have been far, far more incidents of armed security guards attacking students then there were ever incidents of school shootings. Almost all school shootings happen in schools with armed security guards. I am not saying that armed security guards are always a bad idea, but they are not magic. Just having them does not solve all problems as you claim.



School shootings almost always happen in right wing areas. That is just a fact. You could argue that it is a non causation correlation, but it is a correlation.



Dealing with the behavior problems of hundreds of children is a cushy gig?



And it works by suspending federal payroll tax laws?

Armed security guards attacking students?

 

[Walt]

Armed security guards attacking students?

It keeps happening.

 

[TOP]

It keeps happening.

Where? Actually Answer my question...with links please..

 

[TOP]

What is stupid and illogical (other than the fact you cannot discern simple comprehension)?
Bottom line. An armed/trained teacher could be there BEFORE the police arrive to defuse a situation.
You "deconstructed" nothing, other than adding a lot of babbling bullshit. You are a stupid illogical fool.

Exactly...

 

[Phantasmal]

Armed security guards do not stop school shooters. The armed guard at Uvalde hid.

 

[TOP]

Armed resource officers are an asset... And there are Plenty of qualified people to hire... I was always very comfortable and felt protected knowing our resource officers were there... And the kids totally respected them... There are bad examples in every profession...

 

[Walt]

Where? Actually Answer my question...with links please..

https://www.google.com/search?sca_e...kEHRv3BwwQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=1662&bih=904&dpr=2

 

[TOP]

https://www.google.com/search?sca_e...kEHRv3BwwQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=1662&bih=904&dpr=2

So your statement was not accurate....Thank you...