Happy MLK, Jr. Weekend!

Dixie said:
Well, I think I've demonstrated that I am not a racist or bigot, particularly on this issue. I am the only one willing to accept the truth, and intellectually honest enough to admit the facts. I'm certainly not racist because I won't allow you to proclaim abolitionists to be devoid of racism, or establish racism as the reason for the Civil War.

I'm also not the one making stereotypical generalizations about black people, like how they don't live in Maine because blacks don't like the cold. I'm surprised you didn't say it was because Maine doesn't have fried chicken and watermelon. And the bit about every black man in Maine being a mayor of somewhere... that was too patronizingly cute!

For me to be such a blowhard gadfly, you certainly spend enough time talking to me and debating with me... must be that "vanilla" lifestyle up there in Maine, just makes life too boring.
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stereotypical generalizations? really? and here I thought that anthropology was one of your many areas of claimed expertise.

And we do have watermelon...AND fried chicken ....my wife's recipe using buttermilk infused with chili sauce is killer..... My point about Mayors Jenkins and Burney was to suggest that a state with a black population as small as Maine's that elects black citizens as mayors of two of its five largest cities is a state that is demonstrably colorblind. My guess is that you have less than 40% of your largest municipalities with black mayors yet the black population of those municipalities is significantly higher than 1%. Am I correct?

Life in Maine IS boring.... not because it is "vanilla", but because it is sparsely populated with a cruel climate and minimal industrial development. But do me a favor and take my word for it, the thought of YOU stinking up this lovely state with your fetid presence is enough to turn my stomach.... and I "debate" you because it is a guilty pleasure..... kinda like I used to feel when I beat up my kid brother... chewing you up on topic after topic....from Vietnam to Iraq all the way to mathematics lets me walk away with a tremendous ego boost. Thanks....you fucking slanderous troll.
 
I've been trying to find a transcript of Tony Brown's Journal, it's really good this month. It is an essay on Martin Luther King, and Brown's evaluation of what King's message was. It was fascinating for me to watch, because it dovetails nicely with the debate we are having here.

Brown contends, that what King was saying, in essence, is that there is no such thing as "race". We are all a part of the human genetic family. That only 6 of 40,000 DNA markers determine skin color, and the only "racial" differences in humans, are the equivalent to a genetic sunburn.

He goes on to address how many people hold onto the notion of race, because it serves them politically or socially to do so. I wish I could have found a transcript, I wanted to post it here, as if I had written it, and see how many of you pinheads called me a racist for it. If you have a chance, watch for it on PBS, it's a very fascinating and enlightening piece.
 
My point about Mayors Jenkins and Burney was to suggest that a state with a black population as small as Maine's that elects black citizens as mayors of two of its five largest cities is a state that is demonstrably colorblind.

Well, I would say, since you noticed and noted their color, you can't very well be "colorblind". Also, the fact that the odds of someone representative of 1% of the population, could win elections, twice, seems to indicate there might be more than sheer luck at play. If they were elected because they are black, how is that any less "racist" than electing people because they are white?
 
Dixie said:
I've been trying to find a transcript of Tony Brown's Journal, it's really good this month. It is an essay on Martin Luther King, and Brown's evaluation of what King's message was. It was fascinating for me to watch, because it dovetails nicely with the debate we are having here.

Brown contends, that what King was saying, in essence, is that there is no such thing as "race". We are all a part of the human genetic family. That only 6 of 40,000 DNA markers determine skin color, and the only "racial" differences in humans, are the equivalent to a genetic sunburn.

He goes on to address how many people hold onto the notion of race, because it serves them politically or socially to do so. I wish I could have found a transcript, I wanted to post it here, as if I had written it, and see how many of you pinheads called me a racist for it. If you have a chance, watch for it on PBS, it's a very fascinating and enlightening piece.
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I don't find that theory racist in the least.... what I find racist is your ridiculous assertion that racism died in America instantaneously with the passage of the civil rights act..... or even with the emancipation proclamation... I would agree that we are all part of one family.... and if only people didn't mistreat and exclude people based solely upon the color of their skin, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
 
Dixie said:
My point about Mayors Jenkins and Burney was to suggest that a state with a black population as small as Maine's that elects black citizens as mayors of two of its five largest cities is a state that is demonstrably colorblind.

Well, I would say, since you noticed and noted their color, you can't very well be "colorblind". Also, the fact that the odds of someone representative of 1% of the population, could win elections, twice, seems to indicate there might be more than sheer luck at play. If they were elected because they are black, how is that any less "racist" than electing people because they are white?
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I realize this concept is probably foreign to you given the politicians you have dealt with...but Jenkins and Burney were elected because they were GOOD and SMART and CHARISMATIC and PROVEN LEADERS.... and nobody gave a shit that they were black...they voted for them because they wanted to put the best guy in charge of running their city... are you suggesting that Alabama does not have any good, smart, charismatic black politicians?

And to suggest that having visual acuity such that one can ascertain the color of someone's skin is synonymous with racism is ridiculous. I note skin color in passing - much as I note the type of car someone drives or the color of their hair or eyes or what sort of winter coat they are wearing. If I were indeed a racist, I would treat those citizens of color differently and with less respect than I treat those whose skin color matches mine...and I don't do that.
 
I don't find that theory racist in the least.... what I find racist is your ridiculous assertion that racism died in America instantaneously with the passage of the civil rights act..... or even with the emancipation proclamation... I would agree that we are all part of one family.... and if only people didn't mistreat and exclude people based solely upon the color of their skin, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

No, people like you, who continue to egg on a political agenda by using and exploiting racial issues, is what has kept "racism" alive and well in America. I've never claimed that racism died with the passage of Civil Rights, I did argue that CRA legislation, made racial discrimination a federal crime, and countless people have been convicted under the law, of the very types of discrimination you claim are still rampant, despite the laws on the books.
 
maineman said:
I realize this concept is probably foreign to you given the politicians you have dealt with...but Jenkins and Burney were elected because they were GOOD and SMART and CHARISMATIC and PROVEN LEADERS.... and nobody gave a shit that they were black...they voted for them because they wanted to put the best guy in charge of running their city... are you suggesting that Alabama does not have any good, smart, charismatic black politicians?

And to suggest that having visual acuity such that one can ascertain the color of someone's skin is synonymous with racism is ridiculous. I note skin color in passing - much as I note the type of car someone drives or the color of their hair or eyes or what sort of winter coat they are wearing. If I were indeed a racist, I would treat those citizens of color differently and with less respect than I treat those whose skin color matches mine...and I don't do that.
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Hmmm... I wonder, if we went by simply who voted for black mayors whether the South or the North would have a higher percentage...

My guess is, that because the largest population of those of african descent in this nation are in the South that there are more from there. Congressmen/women, etc.

Just saying, "Hey we voted for somebody of color" doesn't mean that racism has disappeared even there. That's much like the "One of my best friends...." line and is tactical and not factual.
 
Dixie said:
I don't find that theory racist in the least.... what I find racist is your ridiculous assertion that racism died in America instantaneously with the passage of the civil rights act..... or even with the emancipation proclamation... I would agree that we are all part of one family.... and if only people didn't mistreat and exclude people based solely upon the color of their skin, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

No, people like you, who continue to egg on a political agenda by using and exploiting racial issues, is what has kept "racism" alive and well in America. I've never claimed that racism died with the passage of Civil Rights, I did argue that CRA legislation, made racial discrimination a federal crime, and countless people have been convicted under the law, of the very types of discrimination you claim are still rampant, despite the laws on the books.
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you have argued that the CRA made affirmative action instantaneously moot and unnecessary. I beg to differ. The mere fact that AA has changed the way many businesses who take federal tax dollars look at race when hiring is proof that the CRA alone would not have brought about that change
 
And to suggest that having visual acuity such that one can ascertain the color of someone's skin is synonymous with racism is ridiculous.

I didn't suggest that, I suggested it is not "colorblind" if you are using your visual acuity to determine the color of someones skin. The mere fact that you realize these men are black and not white, is proof and testament to your lack of "colorblindness".

If I were indeed a racist, I would treat those citizens of color differently and with less respect than I treat those whose skin color matches mine...and I don't do that.

We simply don't know how you would treat those people, if they made up 15-20% of your population, and you were around them daily. It's not the environment you live in, so we can't determine how you would react. We know, when there is as few as 1% blacks in your state, you take note of the ones who have won political office, you do recognize their color. You will also exploit them to make your points, so you aren't colorblind and you exploit people based on race, even when there are only 1% blacks in your state.
 
Damocles said:
Hmmm... I wonder, if we went by simply who voted for black mayors whether the South or the North would have a higher percentage...

My guess is, that because the largest population of those of african descent in this nation are in the South that there are more from there. Congressmen/women, etc.

Just saying, "Hey we voted for somebody of color" doesn't mean that racism has disappeared even there. That's much like the "One of my best friends...." line and is tactical and not factual.
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I have never said that Maine was devoid of racism...never.... just that large portions of our population are demonstably color blind.
 
Dixie said:
And to suggest that having visual acuity such that one can ascertain the color of someone's skin is synonymous with racism is ridiculous.

I didn't suggest that, I suggested it is not "colorblind" if you are using your visual acuity to determine the color of someones skin. The mere fact that you realize these men are black and not white, is proof and testament to your lack of "colorblindness".

If I were indeed a racist, I would treat those citizens of color differently and with less respect than I treat those whose skin color matches mine...and I don't do that.

We simply don't know how you would treat those people, if they made up 15-20% of your population, and you were around them daily. It's not the environment you live in, so we can't determine how you would react. We know, when there is as few as 1% blacks in your state, you take note of the ones who have won political office, you do recognize their color. You will also exploit them to make your points, so you aren't colorblind and you exploit people based on race, even when there are only 1% blacks in your state.
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the term "colorblind" is used as in "showing or characterized by freedom from racial bias." I am colorblind in that sense of the word.

And need I remind you that I lived for nearly 25 years in a society where blacks made up much more than 15% of the population. I exploited no one while in the Navy and I exploit no one now.
 
you have argued that the CRA made affirmative action instantaneously moot and unnecessary.

No, I'm sorry, again you are wrong. I never claimed any such thing. In fact, I am on record as stating, Affirmative Action was probably not a bad idea at the time it was implemented, even though it relies on the same type of racial discrimination it was designed to overcome. I gave AA it's due, for helping to transition America into a new age, and tear down the institutionalized racism in the workplace.

I am opposed to AA now, because I don't feel it is needed, and it relies on racial discrimination, which I am vehemently opposed to in all cases.
 
I have never said that Maine was devoid of racism...never....

My point about Mayors Jenkins and Burney was to suggest that a state with a black population as small as Maine's that elects black citizens as mayors of two of its five largest cities is a state that is demonstrably colorblind.

Oh yeah? Never said that, huh?

Yes, Maine, you've said it six ways from Sunday, Maine is devoid of racism! There isn't an inkling of racism in the entire state! You've gone on and on about your black mayors, to prove this very point. Now, you are claiming that isn't what you said?
 
maineman said:
I have never said that Maine was devoid of racism...never.... just that large portions of our population are demonstably color blind.
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So, then Louisiana is colorblind? Mississippi? They have had Mayors who were black. They are therefore "demonstrably" colorblind?

What constitutes demonstrable colorblindness? The appointment of people of race to high office? Ohio must be demostrably colorblind because they voted a black republican to high office in their state....

There would be few states indeed that you could find no people of color had held office.
 
the term "colorblind" is used as in "showing or characterized by freedom from racial bias." I am colorblind in that sense of the word.

No, you are certainly showing racial bias here, you did recognize the two black mayors in Maine were black. You've also explained why not many blacks live in Maine, and it was based on racial bias as well.... black people hate the cold. You are not colorblind, it appears you are very attuned to what color people are, and make specific references to their race, when making your points.
 
I think almost all black mayors in the south, are elected in cities and towns that have majority black populations.

The real test, is whether a black politician can win with a huge white vote backing him.

I'm looking forward to the day that a Black Governor or Senator is elected in the south.
 
Cypress said:
I think almost all black mayors in the south, are elected in cities and towns that have majority black populations.

The real test, is whether a black politician can win with a huge white vote backing him.

I'm looking forward to the day that a Black Governor or Senator is elected in the south.
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So, because Colorado has a very small population of africans and voted for Wellington Webb the state is therefore "demonstrably colorblind"? Previous to Webb it was Frederico Pena...

I mean, I'd love to take pride in the colorblindness of Colorado, but I am trying to ascertain exactly what makes the election of such elected officials into a demonstration of colorblindness?
 
Damocles said:
So, because Colorado has a very small population of africans and voted for Wellington Webb the state is therefore "demonstrably colorblind"? Previous to Webb it was Frederico Pena...

I mean, I'd love to take pride in the colorblindness of Colorado, but I am trying to ascertain exactly what makes the election of such elected officials into a demonstration of colorblindness?
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I am trying to ascertain exactly what makes the election of such elected officials into a demonstration of colorblindness?

Peer-reviewed academic statistical studies find that, in the south, one of the biggest predictors of how somebody votes is skin-color. Much more so than other regions of the country:


"General Social Survey and National Election Studies data from the 1970s to the present indicate that whites residing in the old Confederacy continue to display more racial antagonism and ideological conservatism than non-Southern whites....This stronger association between racial antagonism and partisanship in the South compared to other regions cannot be explained by regional differences in nonracial ideology or nonracial policy preferences, or by the effects of those variables on partisanship."


http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bpl/ajps/2005/00000049/00000003/art00015
 
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