I personally don't think they are all that scary. Yeah, there are a few people that can get killed by them, but far less than car accidents. Drunk Drivers are far more scary than these people.
Hardline Sunni cleric willing to meet
- Thread starter Sir Evil
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Sir Evil
Megalocon, The Evil Dick
Oh my, now you gave em' a reason to start preaching how neocons are gonna open a new front on drunk drivers worldwide because they are an imminent threat!
maineman
Banned
I don't think that their targets are random. I think they attack in ways designed to influence public opinion so that the public will get the western nation to act in ways that AQ sees as beneficial to their long term plans.
9/11 was designed with two purposes.... 1. to punish us for having troops in Saudi Arabia, for propping up the house of saud, and for propping up Israel.... and 2. to provoke us into retaliating against the arab world by invading, conquering and occupying - hopefully - an oil rich arab country, and in so doing infuriating the arab world, and radicalizing the arab street.
By any measure, 9/11 was a stunning success... and out dimwitted president was played like a fine violin.... and we are poorer, fewere, more despised and less safe because of his blunder. I truly believe that.
9/11 was designed with two purposes.... 1. to punish us for having troops in Saudi Arabia, for propping up the house of saud, and for propping up Israel.... and 2. to provoke us into retaliating against the arab world by invading, conquering and occupying - hopefully - an oil rich arab country, and in so doing infuriating the arab world, and radicalizing the arab street.
By any measure, 9/11 was a stunning success... and out dimwitted president was played like a fine violin.... and we are poorer, fewere, more despised and less safe because of his blunder. I truly believe that.
Sir Evil
Megalocon, The Evil Dick
And by all mean it is your right! However you see it there was going to be some sort of action taken for that day, or is that the wrong thought to begin with?
What should of been the proper course of action?
are you trying to compare the actions in afghanistan with IRAQ?
Sir Evil
Megalocon, The Evil Dick
Arghhhhh, the many twist of a single thread! No, I am not equating the two at all, I simply would of liked to know his answer as to what actions should of been taking after 911 since he thought the administration was playing to the fiddler.
Are you trying to say that it sounds like I am equating the two?
maineman
Banned
Afghanistan was totally proper. I volunteered to go back on active duty to help Bush fight this war...but when he lost OBL at Tora Bora...seemed to lose interest in him altogether and focus on his real target all along - Iraq - he lost me.
I believe we had the good will of the whole world behind us and would have had no problem building coalitions to fight Al Qaeda all over the globe...but it was not just the liberal democrats in America who thought the Iraq idea was counterproductive.... look at the problems Bush had building a real coalition without bribing countries to join....
I believe we had the good will of the whole world behind us and would have had no problem building coalitions to fight Al Qaeda all over the globe...but it was not just the liberal democrats in America who thought the Iraq idea was counterproductive.... look at the problems Bush had building a real coalition without bribing countries to join....
Sir Evil
Megalocon, The Evil Dick
Brilliant sir, you fell right into Care's question that took the discussion of course!
So while we jump over to the wrongs and rights in the world please explain to me how bush lost OBL in Tora Bora? I was totally unaware that the president himself was even over there leading this manhunt! In fact I was always under the impression that he may of had military advisors and such, silly me.
Now, if a guy slaps you in the face later today at the convenience store will you be coming back here to get approval before you whack him one? Why do we need the approval of anyone to take an action we see fit to take? if all these liberal demos saw it as counterproductive why did we go? and who was bribed into going?
maineman
Banned
I understand.... when Harry S. Truman, a good midwestern democrat, had a sign on his desk that said, "The Buck Stops Here" everyone in America understood what that meant. Of COURSE Bush did not PERSONALLY lose Osama in the hills around Tora Bora any more than Harry S. Truman PERSONALLY opened the bomb bay doors of the Enola Gay and dropped the nuke on Hiroshima. Truman, however, never shied away from taking responsibility for it.
In the Bush administration, not only does the guy at the top NEVER take real responsibility for anything that has gone wrong, he doesn't even hold anyone ELSE accountable for the fuck ups. Under George Tenant's watch, our country was attacked by enemies who lived in our midst for months. Robert Mueller's FBI agency personnel were sending urgent emails which were ignored warning of strange arabic men taking flying lessons on commercial airliners but not worrying about learning how to land...NEITHER of those men was fired or punished in any way.
Whether Dubya cares to accept it or not, America knows that the buck stops at his desk and the failures of this administration, from 9/11 to Tora Bora to Abu Ghraib, to Haditha to the civil war raging in Iraq to North Korea's unfettered flexing of military might to Iran's unencumbered expansion of power and influence, sit squarely on his shoulders and on the shoulders of the republicans in congress - and to some extent, the neocon chickenhawk pompom waving supporters that enabled him.
We WILL take the keys away from the republicans.... if not congressionally in '06, then the white house in '08. That party has not shown itself responsible enough to lead. They all need to go sit in the corner and take a long "time out".
In the Bush administration, not only does the guy at the top NEVER take real responsibility for anything that has gone wrong, he doesn't even hold anyone ELSE accountable for the fuck ups. Under George Tenant's watch, our country was attacked by enemies who lived in our midst for months. Robert Mueller's FBI agency personnel were sending urgent emails which were ignored warning of strange arabic men taking flying lessons on commercial airliners but not worrying about learning how to land...NEITHER of those men was fired or punished in any way.
Whether Dubya cares to accept it or not, America knows that the buck stops at his desk and the failures of this administration, from 9/11 to Tora Bora to Abu Ghraib, to Haditha to the civil war raging in Iraq to North Korea's unfettered flexing of military might to Iran's unencumbered expansion of power and influence, sit squarely on his shoulders and on the shoulders of the republicans in congress - and to some extent, the neocon chickenhawk pompom waving supporters that enabled him.
We WILL take the keys away from the republicans.... if not congressionally in '06, then the white house in '08. That party has not shown itself responsible enough to lead. They all need to go sit in the corner and take a long "time out".
maineman
Banned
and please don't forget... the vote to authorize force in Iraq was voted FOR by an overwhelming majority of Republicans. In fact, only a handful voted against it. THE MAJORITY OF CONGRESSIONAL DEMOCRATS VOTED AGAINST THE USE OF FORCE. Deal with it. This is YOUR party's war... and the blood of all those dead GI's is caked on YOUR party's grubby little fingers.
when Harry S. Truman, a good midwestern democrat, had a sign on his desk that said, "The Buck Stops Here" everyone in America understood what that meant. Of COURSE Bush did not PERSONALLY lose Osama in the hills around Tora Bora any more than Harry S. Truman PERSONALLY opened the bomb bay doors of the Enola Gay and dropped the nuke on Hiroshima. Truman, however, never shied away from taking responsibility for it.
In the Bush administration, not only does the guy at the top NEVER take real responsibility for anything that has gone wrong, he doesn't even hold anyone ELSE accountable for the fuck ups.
I recall on May 1, 2003 when Bush landed on that carrier, festooned in an Navy costume, repubs were only too happy to give Bush virtually all the credit for iraq.
Odd, that they are now trying to divert attention from bush, regarding iraq and tora bora.
Truman was a stand up guy who took responsiblity.
Jimmy Carter also never tried to blame anyone else for the iranian hostage situation. Or the failed rescue mission.
In the Bush administration, not only does the guy at the top NEVER take real responsibility for anything that has gone wrong, he doesn't even hold anyone ELSE accountable for the fuck ups.
I recall on May 1, 2003 when Bush landed on that carrier, festooned in an Navy costume, repubs were only too happy to give Bush virtually all the credit for iraq.
Odd, that they are now trying to divert attention from bush, regarding iraq and tora bora.
Truman was a stand up guy who took responsiblity.
Jimmy Carter also never tried to blame anyone else for the iranian hostage situation. Or the failed rescue mission.
Sir Evil
Megalocon, The Evil Dick
Ya know maine, I must wonder if you have a split personality disorder! It strted decently exchanging thoughts bout these here faction, and what dangers are posed by them, and then all of a sudden you are back to you typically far leftist self again. What is it, when a fellow lib changes the thread to something it was'nt it's you que take a change in direction? must be another damn conspiracy!
Yeah, I'll deal with allright, I'll go ahead and take responsibilty for it all seeing that is how you equate an opposing view to bush right away.
maineman
Banned
and JFK bore the responsibility for the Bay of Pigs, even though it was planned on Ike's watch.
I can remember back on politics.com when WRL proclaimed that Bush had "landed a fighter jet on the deck of a carrier in a war zone" to give that "mission accomplished" speech..... his mindless peanut gallery will buy just about anything.
I can remember back on politics.com when WRL proclaimed that Bush had "landed a fighter jet on the deck of a carrier in a war zone" to give that "mission accomplished" speech..... his mindless peanut gallery will buy just about anything.
Sir Evil
Megalocon, The Evil Dick
Shut up shitbrick! you can't speak up for stand up guys so long as you are hiding behind your playdoh shield!
I divert no attention away from nothing, I still believe the iraq invasion was the right thing to do. I don't give a flying hoot who it was that authorized it.
maineman
Banned
Ya know maine, I must wonder if you have a split personality disorder! It strted decently exchanging thoughts bout these here faction, and what dangers are posed by them, and then all of a sudden you are back to you typically far leftist self again. What is it, when a fellow lib changes the thread to something it was'nt it's you que take a change in direction? must be another damn conspiracy!
Yeah, I'll deal with allright, I'll go ahead and take responsibilty for it all seeing that is how you equate an opposing view to bush right away.
I was overzealous. The blood is on Bush's hands - not yours. I have no idea what level of support you gave or continue to give. You are a reasonable guy and I do not want to give you the impression that I feel differently.
I remember the "mission accomplished" speech saying that we had "a long way to go" and that it would "take a long time" and that "we weren't leaving until the job was done"...
Nowadays it seems like so many forget those portions of the speech for the bumpersticker somebody chose to put on that idiotic banner.
I'm never for undeclared war, so don't get me wrong.
Nowadays it seems like so many forget those portions of the speech for the bumpersticker somebody chose to put on that idiotic banner.
I'm never for undeclared war, so don't get me wrong.
From elected repubs? I don't remember many. However it is not a crime to predict the future incorrectly. It is a crime to ignore the constitution and vote for or against going to war without a declaration... The only right move would be to sue the SCOTUS for a hearing, not vote. Voting no was participation as much as voting yes in an end-run on the Constitution.
Either Declare War or don't, the Constitution didn't give you all this end-run power that allows all the fricking waffling.
Either Declare War or don't, the Constitution didn't give you all this end-run power that allows all the fricking waffling.