Well I dont' think that Lorax is either of those things, but I do think the media overhyped Obama, and ganged up on Hillary. There was a couple of factors in play here. The ferocious backlash among educated women 40 and over, and the fact that Obama was never as done of a deal as the media made him out to be. I mean, I heard Howard Fineman claim he was a speeding bullet, had taken out Hillary, and Edwards was fumbling around hoping to stay out of his way.
Holy Crap!
- Thread starter Damocles
- Start date
Well I dont' think that Lorax is either of those things, but I do think the media overhyped Obama, and ganged up on Hillary. There was a couple of factors in play here. The ferocious backlash among educated women 40 and over, and the fact that Obama was never as done of a deal as the media made him out to be. I mean, I heard Howard Fineman claim he was a speeding bullet, had taken out Hillary, and Edwards was fumbling around hoping to stay out of his way.
You are acting as if Hillary is not supremely qualified to run this country. In fact, she is the most qualified candidate running on the Democratic side. There is such a thing as motivating your base. Her base is educated women. They got motivated. Period.
They are far from mindless Onceler. They were simply motivated to come out.
I hate to tell you this, but Obama is one of the least qualified candidates running. That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t make a good president, but frankly nobody knows. And he has not performed well in the debates. Both Hillary and Edwards have outperformed him there. He is the best orator, and gives by far the most inspiring speeches. He might even make the best President, but it is in no way mindless to think that Hillary would make a better one.
If white men start beating up Obama, blacks are going to come out in larger numbers. Is that mindless? Or is that, hey, we’ve taken this all of our lives we’re not taking it anymore? There’s nothing mindless about standing up for yourself Onceler.
And as for Russert, he may be "tough" on everybody, but he makes a joke with them all somewhere along the interview, even if it's at the end. He smiles at them. He did not even crack a smile, and unless you watched for it, don't make claims about it, because I saw it. And it showed.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
This statement is correct with the qualifier. However she is woefully lacking compared to all of the viable GOP candidates.
She has my undying support in the primaries.
Republicans never say they’re going to vote for Obama. Read David Brooks and all of the Republican punditry writhing in orgasmic wonder over Obama; none of them ever say they are voting for him, because guess what? They’re not. Neither are any republicans on this or any other message board. But they sure do love him and they are contributing to this overblown fantasy that there is a huge movement behind Obama, that he can’t lose, that he’s a speeding bullet, a train, he’s going to run everybody over in both parties.
And people need to step back, and look beyond that because much of it is bullshit created by white males over 50 trying to feel good about themselves.
Obama can win, but the youth would have to come out in droves. They did not in New Hampshire. Will they in a general? Because I really do believe that the 20 somethings, even on this board you see it, they want an end to racism; they are not racists. They want an end to wars. They’ll vote for him. But they have to get out there. And in the meantime, we need to push aside the hyped up voices of the white male pundit, because he’s not voting for Obama.
I didn't see it, so I will take your word for it. I remember his interview with Bush being a pretty serious affair, but you're right, he sometimes does allow for a moment or 2 that's lighter.
Getting back to 'mindless', I would still apply that to ANY motivation to vote that isn't along the lines of "who will make the best President for America?" When a vote is of the backlash variety, that consideration takes a backseat. It doesn't mean that most of the people who voted Hillary yesterday didn't also think that she might be the best President; it also doesn't mean that she will NOT be the best President. It means they voted on emotion, and that the consideration of "best candidate" was secondary to whatever message they were trying to send.
You don't elect a President to teach America a lesson that they had better not be so mean to a woman candidate. I don't need a lesson on that. I need someone in the oval office who can move a positive agenda forward.
Honestly, I doubt Hillary's ability to do that. Yes, she is more experienced, and has the qualifications, and Obama is green & all that. But she is a divisive figure, and will very likely lose Congress to the GOP in her 1st term. Washington will, once again, be bitterly divided & characterized by partisan posturing & gridlock. Ultimately, her administration will have a difficult time being effective, and for that reason alone, she is not the best candidate for President right now (in my very humble opinion, of course).
I know Obama will make mistakes, but I really see him as the best possibility, if there even is one, of getting us away from that, which to me, is a vital 1st step if we're ever going to have a decent government again.
That’s fine Onceler, and I didn’t think you did. But isn’t it obvious to you that for instance, Chapdog does hate her?
Who was on television this past week claiming that men didn’t vote for Hillary because her voice reminds them of their wives’ voices? Men like you, or men like Chapdog? Well, it was men like him and there are plenty of them out there. Now, how do you think women like being told that hearing a voice which reminds them of their wife’s voice, is a traumatic, almost hateful, experience for their husbands?
Don’t’ try and pretend that sexism did not rear its head and roar this week. It’s pretending that which is making it hard for you to understand that women roared back.
"Don’t’ try and pretend that sexism did not rear its head and roar this week. It’s pretending that which is making it hard for you to understand that women roared back"
I wouldn't pretend that, because it DOES exist, in a huge way. And people definitely hate her.
I was just saying that I don't.
I wouldn't pretend that, because it DOES exist, in a huge way. And people definitely hate her.
I was just saying that I don't.
DigitalDave
Sexy Beast!
What the hell makes a potential president 'qualified'?
I dont know about HATE.. thats pretty strong word but i very much dislike her. I think shes a phony.. an investment cheat.. a war hawk.. status quo - I dont like her lack of details in regards to what she will do with SSI.. or her plan for Healthcare.. she lies and changes her personality faster then some people change there clothing. I can go on.
I need the next 8 years to be good for this country.
Duh. Of course they aren't. Nor are all those people on the left who were all on about Huckabee and how he was pretty much inevitable.
Look Onceler, all I can tell you is that it has long been a wonder to many of us (in fact I remember that Michael Moore wrote some very funny stuff about this in one of his books), that women make up a majority of the voters, but keep electing men. Do men keep electing women? Come on.
And the first women President of the United States, is change, by very definition.
Um yeah right, that happened. Yeah, it's just like that.
Yeah, it pretty much is. I didn't hear orgasms from the right.
Seriously. People predict one thing or another and they are mostly wrong because no matter how many people make a living taking money to predict the future, nobody can do it.
I know that you don’t, just like I know that SF isn’t not voting for Obama because he’s a racist. But, there are plenty of white males who won’t vote for Obama because they’re racists, and there are plenty of them who won’t vote for Hillary because they’re sexists. And electing a black President confronts and maybe even defeats racism…so does electing a woman president do that for sexism.
I don’t blame women who decide that their fight is against sexism, anymore than I blame or judge black women who decide, no, they’re going to make their stand against racism this time around.
Because I think they all might very well believe that both Hillary and Obama would be good Presidents. So, all other things being equal…
"isn't not" Whew... I almost read that the wrong way.
Just to inform you. I am also not voting for Barack.
Fair enough. I can agree with you on the "all other things being equal" argument, if that's truly the case (and it probably is with most). But Hillary is change ONLY in the fact that she will be the 1st woman President. No small thing, but she is as representative of Democratic Party establishment as anyone who the Democrats could nominate right now.
Also, the most heartening thing to me about Edwards & Obama is their willingness to openly criticize the influence of lobbyists in Washington. Does anyone remember the speech Hillary gave a couple of years back where she said lobbyists were unfairly attacked, and talked about all of the good things they accomplish?
Nothing will really change with her. We may get out of Iraq (and I'm still not convined of that), and maybe we'll get some action on healthcare if people are willing to compromise, but nothing will really change.
Also, the most heartening thing to me about Edwards & Obama is their willingness to openly criticize the influence of lobbyists in Washington. Does anyone remember the speech Hillary gave a couple of years back where she said lobbyists were unfairly attacked, and talked about all of the good things they accomplish?
Nothing will really change with her. We may get out of Iraq (and I'm still not convined of that), and maybe we'll get some action on healthcare if people are willing to compromise, but nothing will really change.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Many women hate her because she's such a fake. Then she cried and they found out she was just like them. When reality sets in and they realize that she's still a fake they'll want to change their vote.
Damn must be confusing to be a woman.
