Iran Snubs Obama: What now?

charver said:
While it is true that Obama's overtures to Iran have been viewed with some scepticism or outright hostility within some elements of the Iranian government there have also been signs of encouragement towards such an approach.

Anyone following the machinations of Iranian politics should be aware that even Machiavelli would be struggle to work out in which direction it was going. Iranian hard-liners, used to a belligerent American attitude, may very well see Obama as merely a softer voice preaching the same message. Reformers see a chance to rebuild relationships and solve regional problems while Iranian pragmatists and opportunists see a chance to use American détente to boost the tanking Iranian economy. Is it any wonder America is receiving mixed messages?

Did America really expect the Iranians to drop to their knees and weep tears of joy because Obama said he'd, maybe, like to come round for a chat, if he's not too busy?

From an Iranian point of view America overthrew their government and installed an autocratic dictatorship, which they then supported for nearly 30 years. Then America gave lots of money and chemicals to Mr Saddam Hussein, who used to live next door, you know? This caused a little local difficulty during the 1980s, when Mr Hussein decided to extend his garden into Tehran. More recently America dubbed Iran part of the "axis of evil", rebuffed all attempted Iranian overtures and consistently refused to rule out the possibility of a sudden military assault. A nice new President isn't going to assuage Iranian scepticism overnight.

Most Americans seem to have a different perception of themselves and the role of their country in Iranian history, mainly beginning with the hostage crisis of '79. Obama's speech made reference to American willingness to extend the hand of friendship if only others would "unclench their fist". Many Iranians would vehemently argue that the reverse was true, hence Ahmedinejad's speech calling for an American apology for it's "anti-Iranian" actions (plus a little grandstanding for domestic consumption, focussing on June's Iranian Presidential elections, of course). Both sides want to be portrayed as victims of the other's aggression, neither want to make concessions.

Until both sides can get over the disputes of the past the problems of the present will drag on interminably but following a course of possibility is much more likely to lead to something concrete, in the longer term, rather than continuing the previous petty policy of foot-stamping, pouting and name-calling.
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What the hell is the above about? No one line smart ass comment? An actual response? An intelligent one at that? I am so disappointed. Totally looking for some humor and bam... got reason instead.
 
Darla said:
Yes, many Americans really do expect this, and almost all of us have this self-pitying idea that with all the "good" we do in the world and all of the money we give to those foreigners (Americans have no concept of how little we actually do give especially in comparison to some other nations, taking into account gdp) why are they always hating on us? Does no good American deed to unpunished?

And of course we carry the mantel of American-exceptionlism within us, because we all bought that and have even internalized it, beliving ourselves to not only be morally superior and more godly than others as a nation, but also as individuals.

And of course, the above article came from the right wing idiots over at newsbusters, so it would have zero nuance to it.
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On a per capita basis, who gives more than we do? When you look at all of the private money coupled with government spending, I find it hard to believe there are many (if any) that give more.
 
Whether Iranians like living under theocratic rule isn't the point, that'sentirely up to them, and in fact, didn't have shit to do with why we helped to overthrow the elected government. We did it for profit, pure and simple and we didn't give a damn about what they like.
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You are absolutely right, why should we care if they discriminate against women, condemn homosexuals, or kill people who believe in something other than radical Islam? As long as it ain't happening here, what do we really care? We Americans are only interested in money, and we don't really care if other people brutally oppress their people. The fact that other pinheads around the world are dealing with Iran, should be enough to convince us to do the same, and just forget about these silly notions of actual freedom for those people, they obviously don't deserve freedom!
 
Dixie said:
You are absolutely right, why should we care if they discriminate against women, condemn homosexuals, or kill people who believe in something other than radical Islam? As long as it ain't happening here, what do we really care? We Americans are only interested in money, and we don't really care if other people brutally oppress their people. The fact that other pinheads around the world are dealing with Iran, should be enough to convince us to do the same, and just forget about these silly notions of actual freedom for those people, they obviously don't deserve freedom!
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What's your suggestion?

Details required.
 
Damocles said:
He has a very nice family, whom he is proud of like any other father, and with good reason. Let's just not take it into territory that any father would be unhappy discussing.

(I would like to thank his elder daughter again for her service to the nation in the armed forces, we all know that portion of the social contract is difficult, especially in times of contested 'wars'.)

He's bragging about her intelligence, let's leave it there. Please.

I've seen where this can go with another poster, and it is NOT pretty. (I'm not saying you are bad for joking a bit, I'm saying that jokes like this one are often taken more seriously than we want it to get, and it escalates into unfathomable nastiness.)
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Well when someone mentions his 17 year old daughter doing something to my ass, the conversation is bound to get even lower.
 
Southern Man said:
Well when someone mentions his 17 year old daughter doing something to my ass, the conversation is bound to get even lower.
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Look SM, if you cannot differentiate between someone talking about spanking your ass in a debate and talking about someone's 17 year old daughter caressing your ass, you are indeed a sick puppy.
 
Southern Man said:
I dunno, maybe we can see some nice pictures. :cof1:
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Nah, we saw all the pics of you doing stuff to your son, and that was enough.

And your indignation was wildly overblown, considering where you have taken this topic.

But please tell us how your comments about BAC's daughter fits in with your notorious "family honor"?
 
Superfreak said:
On a per capita basis, who gives more than we do? When you look at all of the private money coupled with government spending, I find it hard to believe there are many (if any) that give more.
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I don't know, I've read that other countries do give higher percentages of their GDP than we do in foreign aid, and why are you bringing private money into this? That has nothing to do with my point, which is that Americans often resent what they believe to be a large amount of TAX dollars going to foreign aid.
 
Southern Man said:
Prove it.
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Prove it? No, you can't get free copies like that. You will have to buy them videos just like everyone else.



SM, after all the fuss you made about MM's comments, do you actually think your remarks about BAC's daughter are appropriate?
 
Darla said:
I don't know, I've read that other countries do give higher percentages of their GDP than we do in foreign aid, and why are you bringing private money into this? That has nothing to do with my point, which is that Americans often resent what they believe to be a large amount of TAX dollars going to foreign aid.
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You are correct in that other countries governments give more as a percentage of GDP. The reason I bring in the private funding is because you suggested that Americans don't do as much. That argument is either incorrect or needed to be clarified (if you meant simply in terms of tax dollars)

I am sure many are unhappy with how their tax dollars are distributed in terms of foreign aid. How much is going to Israel? vs. the rest of the world? Why does the US government need to be involved as much as it is when we do such a good job with private donations?
 
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