Is It Time To Take Up Arms?

iolo said:
Whose $&@$ are you pretending is an icecream, child? That's the chap! Jesus, you weirdoes really are vomit!
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Wow, thanks. I've never been called vomit before. This is a first. But I am still not sure who you would be referring to as my "masters." I have a boss at work. He has a boss and that guy answers to a board, who answers to the government of the state of Oklahoma. I'm sure most people's job follows a similar hierarchy. I know of very few self made, I'm my own boss type of people. If you think I worship those who are rich or high up government figures you are mistaken.

[I include this next paragraph only because I think I recall that you believe in socialism. If I'm mistaken let me apologize in advance]

I do know a lot of folks who are dependent on people like me who get up and go to work every day. I do not begrudge those who need any government assistance and would argue that they deserve it. You know, those who are elderly or disabled in body or mind, unemployed fir a period of time, etc. But I loathe those who are able bodied and lazy. Those who think they shouldn't have to work at all but should receive the fruits of other's labor. And yes, they are here...and everywhere social programs are. I must say that I applaud inwardly when these are exposed and they have to go to work. And this is where socialism always leads, IMO. What do you do when all want to be the parasite instead of the host?
 
leaningright said:
<snip>

I do know a lot of folks who are dependent on people like me who get up and go to work every day. I do not begrudge those who need any government assistance and would argue that they deserve it. You know, those who are elderly or disabled in body or mind, unemployed fir a period of time, etc. But I loathe those who are able bodied and lazy. Those who think they shouldn't have to work at all but should receive the fruits of other's labor. And yes, they are here...and everywhere social programs are. I must say that I applaud inwardly when these are exposed and they have to go to work. And this is where socialism always leads, IMO. What do you do when all want to be the parasite instead of the host?
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^ I'm not too sure about this. Here are (according to one source) the top ten most socialist countries and with the exception of China, the rest seem to be doing pretty well under the system.

Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today:


  • China
  • Denmark
  • Finland
  • Netherlands
  • Canada
  • Sweden
  • Norway
  • Ireland
  • New Zealand
  • Belgium
 
christiefan915 said:
^ I'm not too sure about this. Here are (according to one source) the top ten most socialist countries and with the exception of China, the rest seem to be doing pretty well under the system.

Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today:


  • China
  • Denmark
  • Finland
  • Netherlands
  • Canada
  • Sweden
  • Norway
  • Ireland
  • New Zealand
  • Belgium
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Ahhhhh, but are the subjects really free in those countries. I really don't think so. And to the original point, free loaders, the only one I have first hand info on is the Netherlands and they indeed do have their fair share and there is quite a bit of resentment building among the working class.

Most know that I'm not for unfettered, untaxed capitalism. But I just can't get my head around full blown socialism. In my mind it just won't work for long.
 
christiefan915 said:
^ I'm not too sure about this. Here are (according to one source) the top ten most socialist countries and with the exception of China, the rest seem to be doing pretty well under the system.

Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today:


  • China
  • Denmark
  • Finland
  • Netherlands
  • Canada
  • Sweden
  • Norway
  • Ireland
  • New Zealand
  • Belgium
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Ahhhh the good ole Scandinavian socialist model argument. I think that it would be better to say that they do well despite socialism, not because of it. High taxes and an extensive welfare state don't exactly make them socialist. The Scandinavian countries have just as much, if not more market freedom than we do in the United States with very similar government spending with regards to the GDP.

When you look at their average gross and net incomes they all fall short of the US as well. And since there is a big difference in the population of the United States and these nations it would do better to compare individual states with these countries, and the Scandinavian countries would rank among the poorest States if they were a part of the United States when looking at per capita GDP.

Another factor that comes into play is the demographics of the countries. The Scandinavian nations have a highly homogenous population compared to the United States and there have been plenty of studies supporting the fact that high immigration rates have an effect on poverty rates.

And it will be interesting to see how these countries fare when the declining working population finally hits bottom because Denmark is already facing issues with that as well as some of those other countries you listed.

And if welfare produced prosperity then we should have no issues with poverty at all considering the trillions of dollars spent since the war on poverty started but the fact is that poverty has remained relatively flat while welfare spending has risen. The answer is to stimulate economic growth with a truly free market rather than let the government have its hand in everything and tax us to death.
 
There is no revolution brewing.

This is the sick fantasy of a few disaffected dead-ender's who want to blame someone or something other than themselves for the sad state of there current lives.

We were much closer to a peaceful revolution against the Conservatives in the 1960' than we are now. (If they had not been stymied by the affects of drugs, who knows what they would have accomplished.)

Dream on you pitiful people who wish to blame others for you woes. No revolution is in the making.

Some ranchers out West are demanding welfare and that the government grant them entitlement to free grazing rights don't have a moral leg to stand on.
 
Don't Mess With Texas

Obviously the above poster is not up to speed concerning this controversy and I do not have the time to go back and post all the things he has missed.

I will just say this...this controversy is about much more than just Cliven Bundy...it is about an abusive BLM, it is about an authortarian Federal Government, it is about an encroaching power hungry Federal Government that wants to control every aspect of your lives, and of course ultimately it is about the erosion of your liberties.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/22/republicans-warn-blm-eyeing-land-grab-along-texas-oklahoma-border/
 
SmilinJack said:
Obviously the above poster is not up to speed concerning this controversy and I do not have the time to go back and post all the things he has missed.

I will just say this...this controversy is about much more than just Cliven Bundy...it is about an abusive BLM, it is about an authortarian Federal Government, it is about an encroaching power hungry Federal Government that wants to control every aspect of your lives, and of course ultimately it is about the erosion of your liberties.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...eyeing-land-grab-along-texas-oklahoma-border/
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29% polled believe armed rebellion is necessary, that's about the same number of people who support the Te Party.

Do you think that the full 29% would take up arms against the government and their fellow citizens?

I don't. I think a lot of those people are talk and no walk.
 
Jarod said:
There is no revolution brewing.

This is the sick fantasy of a few disaffected dead-ender's who want to blame someone or something other than themselves for the sad state of there current lives.

We were much closer to a peaceful revolution against the Conservatives in the 1960' than we are now. (If they had not been stymied by the affects of drugs, who knows what they would have accomplished.)

Dream on you pitiful people who wish to blame others for you woes. No revolution is in the making.

Some ranchers out West are demanding welfare and that the government grant them entitlement to free grazing rights don't have a moral leg to stand on.
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and here we have the machinations of the statist mindset. the belief that the people LOVE the government, or at least tolerate tyranny.
 
Sardonic said:
29% polled believe armed rebellion is necessary, that's about the same number of people who support the Te Party.

Do you think that the full 29% would take up arms against the government and their fellow citizens?

I don't. I think a lot of those people are talk and no walk.
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The Doctrine of the Three Percent.
The Three Percent are the folks the Founders counted on to save the Republic when everyone else abandoned it.

And we will.

There will be no more free Wacos and no more free Katrinas.

For we are the Three Percent.

We will not disarm.

You cannot convince us.

You cannot intimidate us.

You can try to kill us, if you think you can.

But remember, we’ll shoot back .

We are not going away.

We are not backing up another inch.

And there are THREE MILLION OF US.

Your move, Mr. Wannabe Tyrant.

Your move.
What is a "Three Percenter"?
During the American Revolution, the active forces in the field against the King's tyranny never amounted to more than 3% of the colonists. They were in turn actively supported by perhaps 10% of the population. In addition to these revolutionaries were perhaps another 20% who favored their cause but did little or nothing to support it. Another one-third of the population sided with the King (by the end of the war there were actually more Americans fighting FOR the King than there were in the field against him) and the final third took no side, blew with the wind and took what came.

Three Percenters today do not claim that we represent 3% of the American people, although we might. That theory has not yet been tested. We DO claim that we represent at least 3% of American gun owners, which is still a healthy number somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 million people. History, for good or ill, is made by determined minorities. We are one such minority. So too are the current enemies of the Founders' Republic. What remains, then, is the test of will and skill to determine who shall shape the future of our nation.

The Three Percent today are gun owners who will not disarm, will not compromise and will no longer back up at the passage of the next gun control act. Three Percenters say quite explicitly that we will not obey any futher circumscription of our traditional liberties and will defend ourselves if attacked. We intend to maintain our God-given natural rights to liberty and property, and that means most especially the right to keep and bear arms. Thus, we are committed to the restoration of the Founders' Republic, and are willing to fight, die and, if forced by any would-be oppressor, to kill in the defense of ourselves and the Constitution that we all took an oath to uphold against enemies foreign and domestic.

We are the people that the collectivists who now control the government should leave alone if they wish to continue unfettered oxygen consumption. We are the Three Percent. Attempt to further oppress us at your peril. To put it bluntly, leave us the hell alone. Or, if you feel froggy, go ahead AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
and here we have the machinations of the statist mindset. the belief that the people LOVE the government, or at least tolerate tyranny.
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Historically left wingers crave a all powerful central government....that is the only hope they have in being able to force everyone to abide by their agenda.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
and here we have the machinations of the statist mindset. the belief that the people LOVE the government, or at least tolerate tyranny.
Click to expand...

I do not believe the people love government.

I do not believe most people feel the current government is tyrannical.

I do believe most people will tolerate tyranny as long as they are comfortable, as sad a statement at that is.
 
Waaaa, the government wont give me subsidies for my cattle business.

They are tyrants.

Im gunna take up arms against them unless they give me my subsidies.
 
What it comes down in a sense is whether or not federal control is better than local control.

To simplify...say you own some land a thousand miles from Washington who had you rather manage it ...some bureaucrat in Washington or a local government with people knowledgable in regards to that particular piece of ground.
 
"To this I am opposed; because, when all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the centre of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another, and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated. It will be as in Europe, where every man must be either pike or gudgeon, hammer or anvil."

Who said dat?
 
SmilinJack said:
Eric Holder reportedly wants to send a task force to Nevada.....that is if congress doesn't toss him out of office first. What a moron.

http://guerillamedianetwork.com/domestic-enemy-harry-reid-declares-families-supporting-cliven-bundy-domestic-terrorists/
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Inane...

He owes money, this isn't something that can't be dealt with simply with a LIEN on his property. This sending agents to steal at gunpoint is absolutely not the way to deal with somebody who owes money. We don't have debtors prison.
 
Damocles said:
Inane...

He owes money, this isn't something that can't be dealt with simply with a LIEN on his property. This sending agents to steal at gunpoint is absolutely not the way to deal with somebody who owes money. We don't have debtors prison.
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If you take property from people who owe it to you, that's stealing?
 
The Federal Bureaucracy

Leftwingers never learn....and they have short term memories. The disaster of a all powerful centralized government has been seen as in Socialistic Russia...remember all their 5 yr. plans, remember how they could not even feed their people despite an abundance of natural resources.

I am not going to take the time to list all the failures of socialism in Russia and other places where it has been attempted. We need look no further actually than obamacare.

http://www.freedomworks.org/content/obamacare-miracle-media-learns-bureaucracy-inefficient
 
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