Is There Any Federal Department/Agency that you trust in US government?

[Epicurus]

The main theme of political commentary in this decade is polarization. Since the battles over the impeachment of President Clinton and the Florida vote in 2000, pundits have been telling us that we're a country split down the middle, red vs. blue, liberal vs. conservative. Political analysts talk about base motivation and the shrinking of the swing vote. But the evidence says they are wrong.

Not all Americans can be classified as liberal or conservative. In particular, polls find that some 10 to 20 percent of voting-age Americans are libertarian, tending to agree with conservatives on economic issues and with liberals on personal freedom. The Gallup Governance Survey consistently finds about 20 percent of respondents giving libertarian answers to a two-question screen.

Our own data analysis is stricter. We find 9 to 13 percent libertarians in the Gallup surveys, 14 percent in the Pew Research Center Typology Survey, and 13 percent in the American National Election Studies, generally regarded as the best source of public opinion data.

In our study, "The Libertarian Vote," we analyzed 16 years of polling data and found that libertarians constituted 13 percent of the electorate in 2004. Because libertarians are better educated and more likely to vote, they were 15 percent of actual voters.

Libertarians are broadly defined as people who favor less government in both economic and social issues.

 

[uscitizen]

10-20% of voters are Libertarian ? Why did RP only get 3% or somesuch ?

 

[evince]

It is not simplistic to take control of your own life. It is far more simplistic to demand from the replacement crutch "miracles" in the form of "help".

You apply the crutch where there is no cripple. We cripple ourselves with dependence on that we perceive to be "greater".

No one here on the left sees the government as anything but a tool that I know of.

You see this is the basic differance between us.

You guys see the tool box as a danger of smashing your own finger.

We see the toolbox as a way of building a country that is able to stay abreast of our problems and ficxing them.

You want to reject any new tools as dangerous. We want to examine the new tools and access their ability to help us. We want real discussions of what tools and how to use them to meet a common end and a protection of the constitution. You see all new tools as scary.

 

[Epicurus]

No response, Darla?

 

[LadyT]

No response, Darla?

jeez. get off her nutz and relax.

 

[evince]

The main theme of political commentary in this decade is polarization. Since the battles over the impeachment of President Clinton and the Florida vote in 2000, pundits have been telling us that we're a country split down the middle, red vs. blue, liberal vs. conservative. Political analysts talk about base motivation and the shrinking of the swing vote. But the evidence says they are wrong.

Not all Americans can be classified as liberal or conservative. In particular, polls find that some 10 to 20 percent of voting-age Americans are libertarian, tending to agree with conservatives on economic issues and with liberals on personal freedom. The Gallup Governance Survey consistently finds about 20 percent of respondents giving libertarian answers to a two-question screen.

Our own data analysis is stricter. We find 9 to 13 percent libertarians in the Gallup surveys, 14 percent in the Pew Research Center Typology Survey, and 13 percent in the American National Election Studies, generally regarded as the best source of public opinion data.

In our study, "The Libertarian Vote," we analyzed 16 years of polling data and found that libertarians constituted 13 percent of the electorate in 2004. Because libertarians are better educated and more likely to vote, they were 15 percent of actual voters.

Libertarians are broadly defined as people who favor less government in both economic and social issues.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/p...statescanadara/85.php?nid=&id=&pnt=85&lb=btot

Please read this study if you wish to understand what the American people really want.

 

[Damocles]

No one here on the left sees the government as anything but a tool that I know of.

You see this is the basic differance between us.

You guys see the tool box as a danger of smashing your own finger.

We see the toolbox as a way of building a country that is able to stay abreast of our problems and ficxing them.

You want to reject any new tools as dangerous. We want to examine the new tools and access their ability to help us. We want real discussions of what tools and how to use them to meet a common end and a protection of the constitution. You see all new tools as scary.

Rubbish. You see it as the master of all life. The means by which you can make me wear a helmet to protect my powerful mind, the means by which your prayers can provide "healing". It isn't a tool any more than God is a tool to the Christian Scientists.

Pretending that you do not grant this new crutch this power is just blinders. Both sides do it, they are two sides of the same coin.

 

[evince]

Rubbish. You see it as the master of all life. The means by which you can make me wear a helmet to protect my powerful mind, the means by which your prayers can provide "healing". It isn't a tool any more than God is a tool to the Christian Scientists.

Damo you dont see through my eyes I do.

I can tell you what I believe more accurately than your misconceptions about me can.


Will you listen or will you stick to what makes you feel safe in your beliefs?

 

[Damocles]

Damo you dont see through my eyes I do.

I can tell you what I believe more accurately than your misconceptions about me can.


Will you listen or will you stick to what makes you feel safe in your beliefs?

And you don't see through my eyes. The utter reliance that people hold for this power that is over them. It seeps in and takes from you, whether you want to believe it is so. There is nothing that I saw that created dependence like accepting the "help" of this new crutch. It is just a new church, with different priests.

 

[evince]

Oh I know you believe that Damo.

I dont pretend you believe other than you do at least.

 

[Damocles]

Oh I know you believe that Damo.

I dont pretend you believe other than you do at least.

I haven't said that you believe differently. I just gave a view from a different precipice. What I see, why I believe as I do. Knowing that the dependence on government is no different than the dependence on an unseen "God".

 

[Cancel7]

I agree about radical leftism but not about Obama.

But that is not my point. My point is not a partisan one it is a genuine question.

Followers of libertarianism are almost always college educated.

Self identified libertarians are more likely to have a doctoral degree than self-identified liberals, conservatives, or populists. This is just a fact.

I'm curious how you explain that to yourself. Maybe you don't have any better reason than the mindless one liners you and USC posted, but I usually have more respect for you so I would hope you have an actual reason.

Thoughts?

Note to usc: This is not for you. I already know that you are a redneck with little formal education in political theory. You better believe that when I'm buying a tractor, you'll be the first call I make.

I think that all extreme ideologies attract the highly educated, even Marxism, for the simple reason that poor people rarely have the time to sit around reading that much. And most frankly, are too busy working to get wrapped up beyond “democrat or republican?”.

But about Obama, he is getting the highly educated in the primary.

 

[evince]

You see it as the master of all life.


I see it as a servant to me and my fellow Americans.

When we stop treating it as a servant and allowing it to master us then we have our selves to blame.


Its time to wrest it from the hands of the wealthy the world round and make it work for the people. Turning it into a hammer will only help those people take control of us because our tool box is too empty.

 

[Damocles]

I think that all extreme ideologies attract the highly educated, even Marxism, for the simple reason that poor people rarely have the time to sit around reading that much. And most frankly, are too busy working to get wrapped up beyond “democrat or republican?”.

But about Obama, he is getting the highly educated in the primary.

And in those tests he scored nearest to the libertarians after Ron Paul. I can see this.

 

[Damocles]

You see it as the master of all life.


I see it as a servant to me and my fellow Americans.

When we stop treating it as a servant and allowing it to master us then we have our selves to blame.


Its time to wrest it from the hands of the wealthy the world round and make it work for the people. Turning it into a hammer will only help those people take control of us because our tool box is too empty.

No, I see it as a virus that infects others who promote it as a tool but use it as the master of all life, to take from others the power to choose such things as whom they "marry" or whether they wear a helmet when riding a bicycle or motorcycle. They pretend it is benevolent and protective of their life while it seeps in and takes from others.

I do not see government as other than what it is, a necessary evil, but an evil nonetheless. It should be maintained at the lowest level possible, not granted decisions of minutia.

 

[Cancel7]

I think its more of an obscurity issue. Their 'leaders' are all small time and haven't had the power or been under the microscope as much as the two major party candidates and elected officials. Therefore, they have an inflated sense of righteousness that they like to rub in everyone's face.

Boy did I love watching them crawl from under the collective rock from wence they came when Ron "Grand Dragon" Paul was scrutinized.

Coincidentally, if he had said what hillary said about hard working white folk, he would have been crucified.

I seriously think Hillary was trying to say, poor whites, ie; physical laborers who are white, are supporting her. She is absolutely attempting to convince the Super delegates that Obama can’t win the white vote…but, I really don’t think she was trying to imply that only white people are hard-workers. I mean, that would be fucking political suicide, even for a Republican. I don’t think she was saying that. What she’s done is bad enough, ie; trying to sway the nomination by framing Obama as the black candidate.

 

[evince]

Its just so silly of her to go there.

She has destroyed herself politically. Maybe she will pull a liberman now.

 

[Cancel7]

And in those tests he scored nearest to the libertarians after Ron Paul. I can see this.

But how can this be when he is the “most liberal Senator, even more liberal than socialist Bernie Sanders?

 

[Damocles]

But how can this be when he is the “most liberal Senator, even more liberal than socialist Bernie Sanders?

It depends on what "liberal" means. You quote Rs who believe his vote to allow gays to marry is "liberal" while libertarians don't care and agree.

You do not see a difference between two different groups of people because you want to see two sides, them and us...

 

[Epicurus]

I think that all extreme ideologies attract the highly educated, even Marxism, for the simple reason that poor people rarely have the time to sit around reading that much. And most frankly, are too busy working to get wrapped up beyond “democrat or republican?”.

But about Obama, he is getting the highly educated in the primary.

He is getting more of the educated vote than Hillary is, I don't dispute that.

But the point I made was that Obama does not attract EXLUSIVELY or even close to exclusively educated voters in the way that groups like the LP and the CPUSA do.

While I don't think it should happen, I really think our nation would benefit in the long run if we limited voting to the smartest 5%.