Islam is the Religion of Pinheads!

Dixie: "Well... allow me to make it perfectly clear... Abortion is the malicious killing of innocent human life in ALL cases. Just like shooting someone in the head is killing someone, in ALL cases."


Your getting yourself all twisted up, with contradictions.

You call it murder of innocent life, "just like shooting someone in the head", but your carving out exceptions to make murder acceptable, like abortion in the case of rape.

And every year, thousands of unused embryos from fertility clinics are burned in incinerators, yet I've not heard one peep from you about how fertility clinic workers are committing mass murder.

LOL
 
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Cypress said:
Dixie: "Well... allow me to make it perfectly clear... Abortion is the malicious killing of innocent human life in ALL cases. Just like shooting someone in the head is killing someone, in ALL cases."


Your getting yourself all twisted up, with contradictions.

You call it murder of innocent life, "just like shooting someone in the head", but your carving out exceptions to make murder acceptable, like abortion in the case of rape.

And every year, thousands of unused embryos from fertility clinics are burned in incinerators, yet I've not heard one peep from you about how fertility clinic workers are committing mass murder.

LOL
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If you really think abortion or the incineration of unused embryos is murder "just like shooting someone in the head", what should the criminal penalty be for women who get abortions, and fertility clinic workers who burn up embryos that "have a soul and are a human life" in incinerators be?

First degree murder, 25 years to life?
Manslaugher, 6 to 12 years?

Please elaborate on the criminal penalty for those who commit murder, "just like" shooting someone in the head.


thanks
 
Dixie said:
no.... let's NOT stick to science and scriptures.

Yes, let's do! Because I refuse to continue entertaining your profoundly ignorant and stupid analogy, which has no basis in science, fact, or scripture.
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are you suggesting that embryos are not frozen and warehoused at fertility clinics? Are you suggesting that that assertion of mine has no basis in science? what are you saying it has no basis in science? of course it does. embryos are frozen all the time.... and stored for couples who are trying to conceive. If living human beings happen at the instant of conception, the frozen embryos being held for you and your wife would be your children waiting to be born with all the rights privileges and status of any other of God's children, in your eyes. Would you or would you not try to save them? This question is neither ignorant nor stupid...it is simply difficult for you to answer.
 
You may in fact get your soul while in the womb, but that is not synonymous with getting it at conception.

I challenge you to show me where you get your soul at any other point in time, because according to James, if you are alive, you have a soul, and it remains with you until you die. According to Genesis, God gave you a soul as soon as he breathed life into you. According to Psalms, your frame was "known by God" while you were still a secret to your own mother. According to St. Paul, you were known to God in the womb as well. How can a spiritual entity "know" someone with no soul? I think that to be, quite impossible, even for God. There are many other references which indicate God may know of your soul, even BEFORE you are conceived.

Now, unless you have some scripture to support the silly and illogical notion that your soul is acquired at some other arbitrary time, this debate is settled.
 
MM: "If living human beings happen at the instant of conception, the frozen embryos being held for your and your wife would be your children waiting to be born with all the rights privileges and status of any other of God's children, in your eyes. Would you or would you not try to save them? This question is neither ignorant nor stupid...it is simply difficult for you to answer."


He can't answer it.

Because he knows he wouldn't run through flame and fire, to save HIS embryo in a petri dish. In spite of his solemn statements that life begins at the MOMENT of conception, and a human life and a soul is created.
 
Jarod said:
Einstein, why should the fact that the woman was raped make it legal? What about that fact should make "killing" a "child" legal?
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Well Ofty Goofty, the same way 'justifiable homicide' is legal. Because there is a tenable justification for the action. I am not saying this makes it "okay" or "acceptable in the eyes of God", just that there is a reasonable justification for it, in a free society. If there is no justification for killing someone, it is murder. Abortion is premeditated murder.
 
Dixie said:
You may in fact get your soul while in the womb, but that is not synonymous with getting it at conception.

I challenge you to show me where you get your soul at any other point in time, because according to James, if you are alive, you have a soul, and it remains with you until you die. According to Genesis, God gave you a soul as soon as he breathed life into you. According to Psalms, your frame was "known by God" while you were still a secret to your own mother. According to St. Paul, you were known to God in the womb as well. How can a spiritual entity "know" someone with no soul? I think that to be, quite impossible, even for God. There are many other references which indicate God may know of your soul, even BEFORE you are conceived.

Now, unless you have some scripture to support the silly and illogical notion that your soul is acquired at some other arbitrary time, this debate is settled.
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I see womb, not conception.... got anything more on point?

And of course God may know of your soul before you are conceived...he's got it waiting up there with him to impart into the fetus at some point in time prior to birth... at some point in time in the womb.... not necessarily at the moment the sperm bumps into the ovum. If your frozen embryos are children - YOUR children - then you would, no doubt, do anything to save them, eh?
 
Dixie said:
Well Ofty Goofty, the same way 'justifiable homicide' is legal. Because there is a tenable justification for the action. I am not saying this makes it "okay" or "acceptable in the eyes of God", just that there is a reasonable justification for it, in a free society. If there is no justification for killing someone, it is murder. Abortion is premeditated murder.
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Ill ask again, just because you say there is reasonable justification does not answer the question...

What about the fact that the child's father is a rapist is justification for killing that child?


Einstein, I am going to keep asking... Do you not have an answer??? I did not think so... Quick see if you can come up with something, fast.
 
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Dixie said:
Well Ofty Goofty, the same way 'justifiable homicide' is legal. Because there is a tenable justification for the action. I am not saying this makes it "okay" or "acceptable in the eyes of God", just that there is a reasonable justification for it, in a free society. If there is no justification for killing someone, it is murder. Abortion is premeditated murder.
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That embryo that resulted from a rape, is an "innocent human life", with a "soul".

You've really twisted yourself up in a contradiction, because there is no justifiable reason to abort a "human" child who was concieved by rape through no fault of its own.
 
uscitizen said:
Scientific facts now Dix, not religion, or is your tune changing again ?
What happened to the DNA, heart beating, etc ?
Haas science even proven we have a soul ? if not this is based purely on religious beliefs, which you are fully entitled to, just don't leglislate them on others who might not believe as you do.
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See US, the thing is, I am arguing with two different philosophies here, and I have presented you with evidence from science as well as scripture. I am sorry you perceive this as inconsistency, it is certainly not.

As for legislating my personal religious beliefs, I was very clear about that as well. I don't think a free society should have to subscribe to my personal religious beliefs, which is why I can accept the argument for abortion in the case of rape or incest. I don't agree with that argument, nevertheless, it has validity and I can accept it as law, and part of a free society. Murdering innocent human life without justification, is not acceptable, and there is no valid justification for it, and this has little to do with religion.
 
Murdering innocent human life without justification, is not acceptable, and there is no valid justification for it, and this has little to do with religion.
//
Tell that to the poor people in Iraq.....
 
I see womb, not conception.... got anything more on point?

James (2:26) For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

You simply can't be a living human and not have a spirit or soul.

Now, it seems to me, I have relentlessly presented evidence to back my argument and viewpoint, and you have yet to give us a single bit of evidence, from scripture or science, to support what you continue to insist is so. I would appreciate it if you would so kindly do so, and stop beating around the bush. If you have some scripture to contradict my point, or if you can show me where God instills a soul at any other time than when life begins, please present it, or stop insisting it isn't so.
 
uscitizen said:
Murdering innocent human life without justification, is not acceptable, and there is no valid justification for it, and this has little to do with religion.
//
Tell that to the poor people in Iraq.....
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You mean the ones being killed by radical Islamofascists in the name of Allah, which we are diligently trying to prevent from happening?
 
James (2:26) For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

So if you have faith but do not help in the church you are dead ?
Dixie I believe this speaks of dead to God spiritually speaking not physically speaking.
 
Jarod said:
Ill ask again, just because you say there is reasonable justification does not answer the question...

What about the fact that the child's father is a rapist is justification for killing that child?


Einstein, I am going to keep asking... Do you not have an answer??? I did not think so... Quick see if you can come up with something, fast.
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.
 
uscitizen said:
James (2:26) For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

So if you have faith but do not help in the church you are dead ?
Dixie I believe this speaks of dead to God spiritually speaking not physically speaking.
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That is not what it means at all. If you profess to be a Christian, and yet, you support a woman having the ability to murder innocent human life, that is "faith without works", and you are as "dead" spiritually, as you would be if your body had no life.
 
What about the fact that the child's father is a rapist is justification for killing that child?

I didn't say this was the justification, nor did I say that I agreed with the justification, just that it could be made. If the woman, who has to bear the burden of carrying the child, did not make the decision to have sex and become pregnant, she has reasonable justification for ending the life of the unborn human fetus inside of her. I don't agree that she should do this, or that this is the right thing to do, or that God will forgive her for it, or that it's acceptable in the eyes of God, only that she has some justification for it. Abortions performed for the sake of convenience, following the willful act of engaging in sex, which is understood and known to cause pregnancy, is nothing more than premeditated murder without any justification whatsoever. In a civilized society, this should be considered wrong, whether you are religious or not.
 
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
I believe this speaks of dead to God spiritually speaking not physically speaking.

The verse is a comparison, the last part does indeed deal with your spiritual relationship with God, and it compares it directly with the physical aspect of a body with no soul (i.e; spirit). 'Just as a body with no spirit is dead', means what it literally says, that if you are without a soul, you are dead, in other words, you can't be alive and not have a soul, any more than you can claim you are a Christian and not uphold the standards of Christianity spiritually.
 
Dixie said:
I see womb, not conception.... got anything more on point?

James (2:26) For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

You simply can't be a living human and not have a spirit or soul.

Now, it seems to me, I have relentlessly presented evidence to back my argument and viewpoint, and you have yet to give us a single bit of evidence, from scripture or science, to support what you continue to insist is so. I would appreciate it if you would so kindly do so, and stop beating around the bush. If you have some scripture to contradict my point, or if you can show me where God instills a soul at any other time than when life begins, please present it, or stop insisting it isn't so.
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The quote from James flat out does NOT state that a fetus has a soul from conception. And the faith without works argument has absolutely nothing to do with conception...but is an argument against the faith by grace alone arguments of Paul.

And science? you have something scientific about souls? I pointed out the scientific fact that embryos are created and frozen in fertility clinics every day.... and I asked you flat out, if embryos are, in fact, human beings with souls and you had five or six of your inseminated embryos - five or six of your CHILDREN - going up in smoke in a fertility clinic, would you risk your life to save them? Would you risk you life to save your daughter from a fire? Now I realize that the coward in you might very well answer "fuck no" to both of those questions, but if that is not the case, and if the answers are different for the two types of your "children", I asked you to explain that variance. Quit tap dancing
 
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