Jesus and Siddhartha Gautama

Dutch Uncle said:
You dodged my point: People have choices. Inaminate things do not "influence" people. People choose how they wish to act.
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No, I answered your point when I said that philosophies influence people. If a person is taught as a child that blind faith is good, they're going to grow up being susceptible to blind faith. If a person is religious, yes they still make their own decisions, but they're going to be more susceptible to acting in a religious way.
 
StoneByStone said:
No, I answered your point when I said that philosophies influence people. If a person is taught as a child that blind faith is good, they're going to grow up being susceptible to blind faith. If a person is religious, yes they still make their own decisions, but they're going to be more susceptible to acting in a religious way.
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Your opinion of human beings as programmable meat computers is noted. I disagree. Those children grow up to be adults and are responsible for themselves. I was raised in a religious household but was an atheist by age 16. Why did the programming you claim exists fail with me? Why does it often fail with millions of other teenagers who won't do as their parents say?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Your opinion of human beings as programmable meat computers is noted. I disagree. Those children grow up to be adults and are responsible for themselves. I was raised in a religious household but was an atheist by age 16. Why did the programming you claim exists fail with me? Why does it often fail with millions of other teenagers who won't do as their parents say?
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Because there are other things that influence people. Religion isn't the only thing.
The fact that you're actually arguing against the fact that a belief system can influence the way people think and what they do is quite fascinating.
 
StoneByStone said:
Ah yes, because the word "Yahweh" is racist.
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Quote where I said it was. I'll wait.

StoneByStone said:
Because there are other things that influence people. Religion isn't the only thing.
The fact that you're actually arguing against the fact that a belief system can influence the way people think and what they do is quite fascinating.
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The fact you think only religion does so is fascinating. Your dodge about atheism, satanism and socialism was noted.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Quote where I said it was. I'll wait.
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:laugh:

Dude, fuck off. I'm not going to go back reading all of your comments to find where you did this, but we both know you did it multiple times. You're just too much of a pussy to admit it now.

The fact you think only religion does so is fascinating. Your dodge about atheism, satanism and socialism was noted.
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I said all belief systems do. Again, fuck off.
 
StoneByStone said:
Dutch Uncle said:
StoneByStone said:
Ah yes, because the word "Yahweh" is racist.
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Quote where I said it was. I'll wait.
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:laugh:

Dude, fuck off. I'm not going to go back reading all of your comments to find where you did this, but we both know you did it multiple times. You're just too much of a pussy to admit it now.

I said all belief systems do. Again, fuck off.
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LOL. Not a full confession, but proof enough you either lied or are delusional.

The fact remains I never said it was racist. Your anger is a sign of guilt.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
LOL. Not a full confession, but proof enough you either lied or are delusional.

The fact remains I never said it was racist. Your anger is a sign of guilt.
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I'm not angry, I just realize now that there is no point in discussing things with you. You're a liar and a coward.
 
StoneByStone said:
I'm not angry, I just realize now that there is no point in discussing things with you. You're a liar and a coward.
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My posts prove otherwise and your posts prove you are either shit-faced early in the day or extremely upset at being caught in a lie.
 
Meanwhile.......back on topic. Some similarities of both Jesus and Siddhartha.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/hum...w-can-you-explain-uncanny-similarities-008377
Buddhism and Christianity arose independently of each other, separated as they were by almost 3,000 miles and at least 500 years. In terms of religious belief systems they are even farther apart. Many Buddhists, for instance, don't believe in a supreme being. Christianity is based on such a belief. The Buddha was careful to reject any efforts to label him a deity. Christ claimed to be one with God. The Buddha taught his followers to find the Middle Way between poles of opposites such as good and evil. Christ encouraged his disciples to choose the good and reject the evil.

But despite the differences there exists an uncanny similarity in how an underlying mythology shaped the stories of the founders of these two world religions.....

Both Spread Teachings
The Buddha's first order of business was to deliver the famous Deer Park Discourse . Here he put forth the teaching that was to become the bedrock of Buddhism: The Four Noble Truths .

Jesus preached what has come to be known as the Sermon on the Mount , wherein he outlined, in the Beatitudes, a model for Christian life. Both sermons detailed, in systematic fashion, how followers were to live out the precepts of the founders.
 
Cypress said:
The historicity of Jesus is well established, and is supported by multiple independent sources - Christian, Roman, and Jewish - written within a few decades of his execution. That is a renarkable trove of written documentation about someone who was essentially just a peasant by ancient standards.

Siddhartha Gautama is less well established historically since sources which discuss him were not written until several centuries after his presumed death. However, I believe the consensus opinion among religious scholars is that there is a kernel of historicity about the stories of Siddhartha Gautama
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the Suttas tell of Buddas teaching, and his life is well documented.
Plus he claimed no divinity, or power. He struggle to enlightenment thru many different paths (teachers/attempts)
and was moved to become a holy man spreading his insights on the dukka we live in, and how to transcend it
 
StoneByStone said:
I really don't get this whole "I'm not Christian but I respect Christianity" thing. All religion is stupid, but religions like Christianity and Islam preach that if you don't worship a god that is literally a mass murderer, then you get punished for eternity. These are not religions that produce a healthy mindset.
I don't know if Jesus ever really existed, but if he did, he wasn't a great teacher or spiritual leader. He was probably mentally ill and preached tyranny.
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special kind of arrogance and stupidity wrapped into one mind
 
StoneByStone said:
By "the old laws," Jesus was referring to the religious teachings of Judaism, not the actual laws of the state. Remember, at the time the Jews were living under the Roman Empire, but Jesus regularly taught things that went against the laws and norms of the Empire, even if he didn't advocate deliberate breaking of these laws.
Now Jewish laws didn't enforce slavery, there were Jews who simply chose not to own a slave, but the laws did say what you could and couldn't do with slaves. This means that Jesus believed in laws regarding what you can do with a slave instead of just saying fuck all these laws, slavery is wrong. There were also different laws depending on the race of the slaves, as Jews were able to treat slaves that weren't Jewish a lot worse. So, racism too.
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As one still living under the remains of imperialism I am unlikely to have forgotten that, I do assure you - I meant laws relevant to Jews, not imposed on them. Laws are the rules set up by whatever gang of thieves is currently in power. ''Religious' laws are fossil bits of previous social orders. I think Jesus was ready to be crucified only over really important stuff.
 
dukkha said:
the Suttas tell of Buddas teaching, and his life is well documented.
Plus he claimed no divinity, or power. He struggle to enlightenment thru many different paths (teachers/attempts)
and was moved to become a holy man spreading his insights on the dukka we live in, and how to transcend it
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All the stories about Siddhartha Gautama were written centuries after he purportedly lived. By the standards of historical scholarship that is very weak evidence of his existence.

However, the richness of the oral tradition that was undoubtedly passed down about him leads me to think the stories about Siddhartha Gautama are based on very solid kernels of truths.

The Gospels and the Pauline epistles were written within 20 to 50 years of Jesus' death when there were still people alive who knew of him. And the fact that Jewish and Roman sources independently attest to him, collectively provided a robust body of evidence for the historicity of Jesus
 
Penderyn said:
As one still living under the remains of imperialism I am unlikely to have forgotten that, I do assure you - I meant laws relevant to Jews, not imposed on them. Laws are the rules set up by whatever gang of thieves is currently in power. ''Religious' laws are fossil bits of previous social orders. I think Jesus was ready to be crucified only over really important stuff.
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And Jesus was talking about laws that the Jews believed were relevant to them because they came from their god. He said that, despite the new laws he was establishing, the old Jewish laws still stand. Jesus was supposedly the messiah promised in Judaism. He was there to add to Judaism, not take away from it. And yes, their are contradictions in the Bible, but that's another issue.
So with all that being said, Jesus did reinforce things like slavery and homophobia, because he said that those rules still stand.
 
What we have to remember about the actual words spoken by people who mattered to others is that when people didn't spend much time reading and writing they tended to have much better memories. However Homer was put together, people remembered the long books for centuries, as they did early British/Cymraeg/'Welsh' poems like the Gododdin. Just because we tend to have lost the knack doesn't mean they couldn't do it, and I'm sure those who heard Gautama Buddha or Jesus speak remembered and passed it on correctly, because they found it immensely important. The stories are another matter.
 
StoneByStone said:
And Jesus was talking about laws that the Jews believed were relevant to them because they came from their god. He said that, despite the new laws he was establishing, the old Jewish laws still stand. Jesus was supposedly the messiah promised in Judaism. He was there to add to Judaism, not take away from it. And yes, their are contradictions in the Bible, but that's another issue.
So with all that being said, Jesus did reinforce things like slavery and homophobia, because he said that those rules still stand.
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But as with the law about the Sabbath, he interpreted it sensibly and with caring taken for granted: the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Where, please, did Jesus say anything about slavery or homosexuality?
 
Penderyn said:
But as with the law about the Sabbath, he interpreted it sensibly and with caring taken for granted: the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Where, please, did Jesus say anything about slavery or homosexuality?
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Like I said, he didn't address those things specifically. But he did say that the old Jewish laws, which allowed slavery and didn't allow homosexuality, still stand in the eyes of Yahweh.

Imagine if someone said "I agree with all of the American laws" but didn't specifically mention alcohol being legal. You'd still know this person favored alcohol legality, because alcohol is legal in America.
 
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