Massachusetts in play???

Grind said:
watermark if I punch you in the face and you go on a hunger strike, I'll just laugh even more.
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You won't punch me in the face because I'm never going to meet you.

We punched the Islamic world in the face, they punched back. It just proves how violent people like you are what causes all the pain in the world.
 
For 3000 years, humanity has been conducting an experiment. The theory is "If someone hurts us, we should hurt them back, and then after a while there will be no hurt".

3000 years is long enough for any constantly running experiment to be considered a failure.
 
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Darla said:
Yeah we definitely disagree. There has been some very overt racism, Toby Keith being the latest and most disgusting example. I read a scary story in Newsweek over the weekend, interviewing white southerners, and they are even dumber than I thought. And I thought they were dumb. The racism there, was also overt.

Your theory, I think, is that Obama is losing the left, people like you. He’s not losing that many of them, in my opinion. If that was what was affecting his numbers, they would have dropped the week he voted for the wiretapping legislation. They dropped this week, after he was mercilessly and dishonestly pounded by the right. The negative campaigning is working. Why is it working so fast and so well? Race is a part of it.

I really have to ask, who the hell is McCain attracting bac? And how is he doing it? Come on, you know how horrific he is. He's not attracting anybody, at this point in the game, except the anti-obama vote.
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McCain isn't attracting anybody .. so why is the election so close?

I know for fact the energy has subsided in quite a few circles, including among African-Americans .. which would be fatal for him if it continues .. AND, without the slightest question, African-Americans are not impressed with McCain's attack ads and their support is not eroding because of them.

Obama Losing Support Among Youth, Women, Democrats, African-Americans, and Hispanics
http://denverorbust.wordpress.com/2...americas-hispanics-catholics-and-indepedents/

If this trend continues, there will be a fight at the convention with Hillary ready to step in.

The problem isn't racist white people, the problem is that Obama lacks courage.
 
Socrtease said:
The LEFT is not the whole country. You lefties have become JUST as intractible at the right. You will not compromise, you want wealth punished, you want your country to be pacifist. Are you are completely unwilling to vote for someone that will get you closer to what you want than not? If not then YOU on the left get what you deserve, because since 1980 the United States has shown a willingness to vote a democrat into the Whitehouse a grand total of ONE TIME. Seems that even remotely left leaning candidates can't get elected. But keep tilting at windmills and see where it gets you with President McCain.
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Never slightly intimated "the left was the whole country" .. but if you believe the left can be ignored .. let's see if that works.

Not sure what your criteria for supporting a political candidate is, but I'm quite sure they aren't mine. You impress me as a centrist brother .. in my opinion the most useless political animal ever invented. They stand for nothing, stand on nothing.

No, I don't vote for war or for ANYONE who proposes it .. and that doesn't change for political expediency. Obviously you do.

Pacifists?

You mean like Vietnam or Iraq?

Perhaps you're talking about Afghanistan .. but I defy you to demonstrate how killing people in Afghanistan makes America any safer.

I defy you to demonstrate how terrorism isn't best suited for law enforcement .. so says the Rand Corporation and people who've actually studied what the "war on terror" has produced.

Since you've spoke frankly about your thoughts of the left I'll take this opportunity to tell you how equally disgusted I am by centrists .. who shy away from taking a stand on anything then act as if they were right all along. Centrists didn't take a stand against the war .. the left did .. then centrists like you come along and point fingers at the left and presume themselves to dictate to those who took a stand.

I mean nothing derogatory towards you personally, but I find your comments bizzarre.

The left is to blame for democrats losing elections??? .. that would be stupid.

Democrats lose because they have no courage ..because they are filled with centrists. It is the party of centrists and you don't have to look any further than the mirror my brother to find out why they lose.

I'm not a democrat and I have NO OBLIGATION to do as I'm told by the Democratic Party. If they want my vote, they will earn it .. a concept that strangely seems foreign to you my good brother.
 
Grind said:
nope I'm going to punch you in the face.
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You'll only punch him in the face if you think you can get away with it.

If he looks like a small nation, like Iraq, you might try it, but if he looks like China, he'll own you.

All the cowboys are dead.
 
blackascoal said:
Never slightly intimated "the left was the whole country" .. but if you believe the left can be ignored .. let's see if that works.

Not sure what your criteria for supporting a political candidate is, but I'm quite sure they aren't mine. You impress me as a centrist brother .. in my opinion the most useless political animal ever invented. They stand for nothing, stand on nothing.

No, I don't vote for war or for ANYONE who proposes it .. and that doesn't change for political expediency. Obviously you do.

Pacifists?

You mean like Vietnam or Iraq?

Perhaps you're talking about Afghanistan .. but I defy you to demonstrate how killing people in Afghanistan makes America any safer.

I defy you to demonstrate how terrorism isn't best suited for law enforcement .. so says the Rand Corporation and people who've actually studied what the "war on terror" has produced.

Since you've spoke frankly about your thoughts of the left I'll take this opportunity to tell you how equally disgusted I am by centrists .. who shy away from taking a stand on anything then act as if they were right all along. Centrists didn't take a stand against the war .. the left did .. then centrists like you come along and point fingers at the left and presume themselves to dictate to those who took a stand.

I mean nothing derogatory towards you personally, but I find your comments bizzarre.

The left is to blame for democrats losing elections??? .. that would be stupid.

Democrats lose because they have no courage ..because they are filled with centrists. It is the party of centrists and you don't have to look any further than the mirror my brother to find out why they lose.

I'm not a democrat and I have NO OBLIGATION to do as I'm told by the Democratic Party. If they want my vote, they will earn it .. a concept that strangely seems foreign to you my good brother.
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If all Liberals would be this clear, I think you'd see the same from the Right. Then the Centrists would have to choose.

I know it won't happen, but it's a dream.
 
blackascoal said:
Never slightly intimated "the left was the whole country" .. but if you believe the left can be ignored .. let's see if that works.

Not sure what your criteria for supporting a political candidate is, but I'm quite sure they aren't mine. You impress me as a centrist brother .. in my opinion the most useless political animal ever invented. They stand for nothing, stand on nothing.

No, I don't vote for war or for ANYONE who proposes it .. and that doesn't change for political expediency. Obviously you do.

Pacifists?

You mean like Vietnam or Iraq?

Perhaps you're talking about Afghanistan .. but I defy you to demonstrate how killing people in Afghanistan makes America any safer.

I defy you to demonstrate how terrorism isn't best suited for law enforcement .. so says the Rand Corporation and people who've actually studied what the "war on terror" has produced.

Since you've spoke frankly about your thoughts of the left I'll take this opportunity to tell you how equally disgusted I am by centrists .. who shy away from taking a stand on anything then act as if they were right all along. Centrists didn't take a stand against the war .. the left did .. then centrists like you come along and point fingers at the left and presume themselves to dictate to those who took a stand.

I mean nothing derogatory towards you personally, but I find your comments bizzarre.

The left is to blame for democrats losing elections??? .. that would be stupid.

Democrats lose because they have no courage ..because they are filled with centrists. It is the party of centrists and you don't have to look any further than the mirror my brother to find out why they lose.

I'm not a democrat and I have NO OBLIGATION to do as I'm told by the Democratic Party. If they want my vote, they will earn it .. a concept that strangely seems foreign to you my good brother.
Click to expand...
THE LEFT votes for Nadar, which is their right. I KNOW that you don't owe ANY one party your vote, but the pretend that your failure to vote for Obama signals ANYTHING other that an "I'm taking my ball and going home" perspective is ignoring what it is you and other leftists are doing. In 1962 the left attempted to redifine itself with the Port Huron Statement and that accomplished ZERO. The left has the unfortunate history of every generation of 2, redefining itself to it's own detriment. The US is NOT leftist in way shape or form of the world. Leftists end up getting left out of the governing process in this country because they lack the foresight of incrementalism. The right in this country has been able to coalesce around a candidate, even if he does not tow their line. This is because the right KNOWS that the Reagans and the Bushes will do ENOUGH to appease them at election time. They may not get a law outlawing abortion in the US, but they will get a Scalia and a Roberts and an Alito on the court that will do the job for them. No nominee to the SCOTUS is a sure thing, but in the case of affirmative action or abortion, it is the closest they will ever get. Don't vote for Obama if you don't want, but then don't cry when the rightwinger that got elected in Obama's stead nomiates "strict constructionists" which is just code for no right to privacy and no encouragement of changes in race relations and gender equality. America as a whole is centrist, and if either party would jetison their fringe, you would discover that. Politics, especially American politics, is SUPPOSED to be about finding a compromise. It is about giving some to get some back. You call me a centrist, I am more of a pragmatist. Pramagtism gets things done. Maybe not the point or income redistribution and pacifism that you want, but it does get things done.
 
blackascoal said:
McCain isn't attracting anybody .. so why is the election so close?

I know for fact the energy has subsided in quite a few circles, including among African-Americans .. which would be fatal for him if it continues .. AND, without the slightest question, African-Americans are not impressed with McCain's attack ads and their support is not eroding because of them.

Obama Losing Support Among Youth, Women, Democrats, African-Americans, and Hispanics
http://denverorbust.wordpress.com/2...americas-hispanics-catholics-and-indepedents/

If this trend continues, there will be a fight at the convention with Hillary ready to step in.

The problem isn't racist white people, the problem is that Obama lacks courage.
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You know what? Things rarely have one explanation and usually involve a confluence of events.

I guess I am just shocked because I never thought that Obama was what you thought he was, so to me, what is the big surprise? You accused Hillary supporters like Care of whining and taking their ball and going home. I don't know where you ever got the idea that Obama could run on a campaign of withdrawing from the war against terror. I think you are too rigid.
 
Socrtease said:
THE LEFT votes for Nadar, which is their right. I KNOW that you don't owe ANY one party your vote, but the pretend that your failure to vote for Obama signals ANYTHING other that an "I'm taking my ball and going home" perspective is ignoring what it is you and other leftists are doing. In 1962 the left attempted to redifine itself with the Port Huron Statement and that accomplished ZERO. The left has the unfortunate history of every generation of 2, redefining itself to it's own detriment. The US is NOT leftist in way shape or form of the world. Leftists end up getting left out of the governing process in this country because they lack the foresight of incrementalism. The right in this country has been able to coalesce around a candidate, even if he does not tow their line. This is because the right KNOWS that the Reagans and the Bushes will do ENOUGH to appease them at election time. They may not get a law outlawing abortion in the US, but they will get a Scalia and a Roberts and an Alito on the court that will do the job for them. No nominee to the SCOTUS is a sure thing, but in the case of affirmative action or abortion, it is the closest they will ever get. Don't vote for Obama if you don't want, but then don't cry when the rightwinger that got elected in Obama's stead nomiates "strict constructionists" which is just code for no right to privacy and no encouragement of changes in race relations and gender equality. America as a whole is centrist, and if either party would jetison their fringe, you would discover that. Politics, especially American politics, is SUPPOSED to be about finding a compromise. It is about giving some to get some back. You call me a centrist, I am more of a pragmatist. Pramagtism gets things done. Maybe not the point or income redistribution and pacifism that you want, but it does get things done.
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I think that you need to stop conflating pacifism with the belief that occupying afghanistan is accomplishing jack shit.

I disagree that America as a whole is centrist. What's funny is, on a whole, they seem to be what you despise the most, according to polling over the years. Left, and I mean LEFT, of any elected Dem, on economic policy, and slightly right of center on social policy. though, on gays they have moved center, recently.

You are also completely disregarding the fact that the extreme right moved this government hard right by refusing to compromise, by calling political compromise "date rape". You don't get anywhere by allowing the extreme right reign for years, and then going centrist in response, until they take over again, even further right. That has been the pattern, and look where it got us?

Personally, I think that both Obama and FDR had it right. Stop whining. You want him to do something? Make him do it. That means, political activism and building loud grass roots movements.
 
Oh, and worst of all, on foreign policy, or so-called "national security" the American people are extreme right. That's why dems have such problems getting elected President. And it's been that way since Vietnam. That's why the idea that Obama can run on "I'm withdrawing from the War On Terror" is ludicrous.

But, unless he convinces me he would attack Iran (which I don't believe), or unless the current loon does attack Iran, and Obama backs it, I'm going to vote for him. and continue pressuring him from the bottom up. Also, many "progressive' (I prefer liberal) organizations are now very well funded. Kos and moveon are going to be funding left of center democrats in primaries going forward. That's how you change things! That's how the right changed things! But, you need a dem in the white house to take advantage of that change. There is real hope, and we do have the internet to thank for that.

So let's all hear it for Al Gore! ;) Ah, I am a little stir crazy. Up early to do my bike ride and run, but it's pouring out. :(
 
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