McCain's Healthcare Tax

Watermark said:
This is Milton Friedman's plan. Milton Friedman theorised that if workers no longer paid insurance and everyone had to shop the market for healtchare a lot more free market intelligence would come into play and the prices of healthcare would drop.
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yeah well we tried part of that with choices and HMO's. didn't work, so we are supposed to try the same thing some more ?
 
LadyT said:
I did.

My taxes will DEFINITELY go up with McCain and will only be affected when I'm making $200k+/yr under Obama.

I think I'm safe for the time being. Obama has very explicit and descriptive tax plans (way more than McCain has provided). I'd suggest you read up on them to get grounded in reality. You WILL pay more under McCain - right off the bat at that.
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I will check them out, I should be more informed. But I leave you with this. Reupping the tax cut for the rich that Bush did from 39% to 36% (same plan as Kerry's BTW) is estimated to yield no more than $40 billion in extra tax revenue. That's it, just $40 billion.

McCain has another plan for healthcare where healthcare providers can compete across state lines, which makes it more free, more choice and will help to make them more competitive with the value they offer.
 
LadyT said:
I did.

My taxes will DEFINITELY go up with McCain and will only be affected when I'm making $200k+/yr under Obama.

I think I'm safe for the time being. Obama has very explicit and descriptive tax plans (way more than McCain has provided). I'd suggest you read up on them to get grounded in reality. You WILL pay more under McCain - right off the bat at that.
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Ironically, it’s the idiots who will vote for McCain who really do deserve his policies.
 
KingCondanomation said:
I will check them out, I should be more informed. But I leave you with this. Reupping the tax cut for the rich that Bush did from 39% to 36% (same plan as Kerry's BTW) is estimated to yield no more than $40 billion in extra tax revenue. That's it, just $40 billion.

McCain has another plan for healthcare where healthcare providers can compete across state lines, which makes it more free, more choice and will help to make them more competitive with the value they offer.
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the only ones that will enjoy this alleged freedom you speak of are insurance companies. Seriously. You're touting the party line just makes you look like an assinine fool. Obama is 100% correct. they will all set up shop in states with lax laws if this happens and believe me, if you think it will some how help your coverage you are delusional.

Dano, I feel like I can't even have an honest discussion with you regarding anything political. You've toted the partyline for the last 5 years I've known you despite their now iconic failures. I mean really you're that concerned about a family making $250k/yr getting marginal tax breaks when you, a father of 10, is making well under that?
 
LadyT said:
the only ones that will enjoy this alleged freedom you speak of are insurance companies. Seriously. You're touting the party line just makes you look like an assinine fool. Obama is 100% correct. they will all set up shop in states with lax laws if this happens and believe me, if you think it will some how help your coverage you are delusional.

Dano, I feel like I can't even have an honest discussion with you regarding anything political. You've toted the partyline for the last 5 years I've known you despite their now iconic failures. I mean really you're that concerned about a family making $250k/yr getting marginal tax breaks when you, a father of 10, is making well under that?
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I haven't toted a party line. I don't like McCain's position on global warming and I despise his being the poster boy for CFR, but increasing competition in any area can only result in better value for money. That's nothing to do with parties but sound economics.
I'll give McCain his props where he has them.

We have seen Obama's promises before with Clinton not promising a tax increase for anyone but the rich and then look what happened, why do you trust them this time around?
 
Chapdog said:
McCain: "So the point is, I want people to have tax cuts. I want every family to have a $5,000 refundable tax credit so they can go out and purchase their own health care. I want to double the dividend from $3,500 to $7,000 for every dependent child in America."

Obama: " Just one last point I want to make, since Senator McCain talked about providing a $5,000 health credit. Now, what he doesn't tell you is that he intends to, for the first time in history, tax health benefits.

So you may end up getting a $5,000 tax credit. Here's the only problem: Your employer now has to pay taxes on the health care that you're getting from your employer. And if you end up losing your health care from your employer, you've got to go out on the open market and try to buy it.

It is not a good deal for the American people. But it's an example of this notion that the market can always solve everything and that the less regulation we have, the better off we're going to be."



Personally i think McCains healthcare plan is as bad as Bush's scam social security privatization.
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We had this discussion once before. This does work. For damn near everyone. The only ones that it may not work for is the ultra wealthy. Go back and look at the statistics from the thread. All you have to do is make it a part of the W2 and you don't see a negative effect on the employees paycheck.
 
Superfreak said:
We had this discussion once before. This does work. For damn near everyone. The only ones that it may not work for is the ultra wealthy. Go back and look at the statistics from the thread. All you have to do is make it a part of the W2 and you don't see a negative effect on the employees paycheck.
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Oh really?

How exactly is my having to pay taxes on at least $7,500 more in income NOT GOING to be seen on my paycheck?
 
LadyT said:
I figured. It's a huge increase in taxes for middle America. If you're marginal tax rate is 25%, and you have a some what decent plan which will at least cost you around $10k, you're going to be paying more than a grand more in federal taxes alone, right off the bat.

And that's for everyone. Whether you make $40k/yr or $150k/yr. Its still substantial in each instance.

I was glad to see Obama harp on this last night but I don't think the message is out there. McCain seems to think that a $10k plan is "designer" and suped up. Well fvck him. We can't all pay the $20/yr he pays for full comprehensive coverage.

I can't believe any fiscal conservative would rationalize voting for him. It boggles my mind.

A friend of a friend who I know makes well under 100k was saying you have to watch out for Obama's tax plan. Its like WTF?
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say the plan is $10k per year for an individual. They get taxed on the employers contribution. Which for arguments sake lets say is 50%. They get taxed on the $5k at 25%.... taxes equal $1250... the credit is $2500... so how do they lose???

Say the employer is really really nice and pays 100%... on 10k taxes would be $2500... credit $2500... break even.... again not a loss.
 
LadyT said:
Oh really?

How exactly is my having to pay taxes on at least $7,500 more in income NOT GOING to be seen on my paycheck?
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When you fill out your W2, you list the number of exemptions you will be taking. That is factored in to the taxes that are withdrawn from your paycheck. If you treat the healthcare credit in the same fashion, you will not see a reduction in your paycheck because it will already be factored in that you are receiving the credit.

Assume you are taxed on $7500.... at 25%... your additional taxes are what?

answer... $1875.... and your credit is what....

answer $2500

Your net GAIN would be what???

you guessed it... $625
 
LadyT said:
seriously.

I just had to move on. Like beating a dead horse.
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I have criticized McCain over CFR, global warming, opposition to ANWR drilling, opposition to tax cuts.
What have you or any of the other lefties on here criticized about Obama?

Like WTF, sometimes it seems that if I don't agree with 100% of the lefties agenda and praise even one thing about the right then you get a label of a hack. It's all or nothing.

I certainly argue that the Dems are worse on spending and will be worse, so what? It's the truth, that's coming from their voting records. You want to call me a party hack over that?

You know I came back here and try to be more civil, more reasonable but I just don't see the point.
 
LadyT said:
LOL touchez.

The fvckhead apparently until last night didn't realize that $2k would not be enough to sufficiently insure someone.
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obviously a female fvckhead doesn't realize the credit is not intended to replace the entire cost of healthcare, but rather is designed to offset the increase in taxes. The plan is also designed to increase competition among health providers. But I guess a certain female fvckhead is too stubborn to actually READ the fvcking plan.
 
Superfreak said:
obviously a female fvckhead doesn't realize the credit is not intended to replace the entire cost of healthcare, but rather is designed to offset the increase in taxes. The plan is also designed to increase competition among health providers. But I guess a certain female fvckhead is too stubborn to actually READ the fvcking plan.
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Ah I thought so, I couldn't believe McCain would do that, paying less in taxes is the one thing Repubs still have going for them in an election.
 
KingCondanomation said:
I have criticized McCain over CFR, global warming, opposition to ANWR drilling, opposition to tax cuts.
What have you or any of the other lefties on here criticized about Obama?

Like WTF, sometimes it seems that if I don't agree with 100% of the lefties agenda and praise even one thing about the right then you get a label of a hack. It's all or nothing.

I certainly argue that the Dems are worse on spending and will be worse, so what? It's the truth, that's coming from their voting records. You want to call me a party hack over that?

You know I came back here and try to be more civil, more reasonable but I just don't see the point.
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Yeah true bushites were never too hot on McCain.
 
Superfreak said:
obviously a female fvckhead doesn't realize the credit is not intended to replace the entire cost of healthcare, but rather is designed to offset the increase in taxes. The plan is also designed to increase competition among health providers. But I guess a certain female fvckhead is too stubborn to actually READ the fvcking plan.
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That's just not true. The plan is designed to have employers stop providing their employees health insurance. That's the purpose of the plan. To kick people off of employer sponsored group insurance and to have people obtain insurance through the individual market. The means to implement that policy goal is to disincentivize employer sponsored heath insurance by making it expensive for employers through taxation.

The purpose of the tax credit is to make the transition from primarily employer sponsored insurance to individual markets more palatable to the public. It is by no means designed to offset the increases in taxes since the purpose the plan is to eliminate employer provided insurance. In short, if the plan were 100% effective there would be no tax increases to offset at all.

Basically, this is increasing the bribe from a tax-exempt health savings accounts that the public balked on when Bush proposed it a few years ago to a full on tax credit. Both policies are designed to get individuals in individual markets. The only difference is the bribe.
 
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