Michael Steele becomes first black RNC chairman

Damocles said:
No. I am not.

We need them to also be fiscally conservative and into personal responsibility. Laws against gay marriage shouldn't be the "secret" way to get people to vote for the republican party. The "Contract With America" proved that actual conservative policy can and will garner votes.

We cannot afford another "religious" conservative who is only "conservative" in that manner, but will spend like a drunken democrat on April 15th. My party is hurting right now because "conservatives" created one of the hugest deficits to ever exist all while following somebody who never seemed to act fiscally conservative, and appeared to never have any attempt to do so.
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You're failing to accept reality. The Republican party is hurting because it not only went over the cliff of political extremism but because it proved horrendously inept at governance.
 
blackascoal said:
You can love your country all you want and you can feel all good and squishy about the liberal paternalistic notion that all we need is a role model .. as if Barack Obama is the first one to come along .. as if we don't already have brilliant role models, but neither changes the state of black America one iota.

Role models don't have shit to do with the state of non-white second-class citizenship in America where our children are gunned down by police simply because they are black .. innocent men laying on the ground getting their brains blown out .. a 92 year-old woman having her door kicked in and 3 cops rush in to murder her in cold-blood .. and where our children are targeted for the prison/industrial/slave complex.

Any idea what would have happened if the 92 year old woman sitting alone in her house in a rocking chair being murdered by police if she had been white?

Are you involved in that struggle?

The war on drugs is a war on non-white people .. proven, studied, documented, and factual.

Are you involved in that struggle?

Other than your symbolism, you tell me where the actual state of black America has improved because Obama is the president or Steele leads the RNC .. neither of whom I might add are going to one damn thing about the proven and factuals struggles I mentioned.

We could have a purple president from Mars .. and if he/she/it addressed the injustice of the criminal injustice system, that purple president would do more to positively effect the state of black America than some black-face symbol that won't do shit.

Here's the deal, both Obama and Steele are acts of desperation. Had Obama followed Bill Clinton he would not be president. If took George Bush to make Obama the president .. and in fact, it took George Bush to make Steele the head of the RNC.

I have no problem with you fooling yourself with placebo symbolism, but I beg to differ.
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I don't think that Obama is the first role model for blacks to come along by any means. But I have seen people as successfull as Eugene Robinson of the Washington Post saying that this means something to them. This is not to say that any white liberal would ever think this in an of itself does anything to improve the lives of the black youths facing the societal circumstances which you describe. It is like a white male aquaintance of mine said to me about that idea; that his life had sucked for many reasons and 43 white presidents hadnt' changed that.

I really don't know exactly what it means in the long run, I don't think anyone does yet. But I did see a lot of black kids saying that Obama meant they could be President someday. I suspect it's going to mean something. I suspect that someday, one of those kids is going to do something, become something, and they are going to talk about the day they saw Barack Obama being sworn in. But that's decades off. In the meantime, the other problems you talk about won't be fixed by having a black president, no.

But not all white liberals are the paternalistic types you describe. I never felt that my vote for Obama was a way of feeling good about myself making up for historical wrongs. I don't think that way at all. A lot of people don't.
 
I have to say one more thing on this thread. Both desh and bac are two of my favorite posters so this is not personal.

But the fact is that Desh sees everything Obama does or might do as being above reproach and for the greater good, and bac sees everything he does or might do as either having no effect or as being very harmful. Desh is all about Obama=good, and bac is all about Obama-bad.

This is why the republican posters like cawacko, and the not a republican republican posters like epic and smarter, love bac and hate desh.

But the fact remains that the truth is somewhere in between.
 
Yurt said:
i told you i don't swing for your team.... oh yeah, you nailed me on being a liberal....oooooh

thanks for proving that you lied and too bad you can't be mature enough to apologize for making up meadowmuffins
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Go suck more dicks you stupid faggot. You fool no one. Has Maineman given it up for you yet? Doubtful. It is understandable that you'd be frustrated.
 
Mottleydude said:
You're failing to accept reality. The Republican party is hurting because it not only went over the cliff of political extremism but because it proved horrendously inept at governance.
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Because the focus moved from conservative ideas to nation-building and making sure homosexuals can't get married.

My point was WHY they were ineffective, it assumed that everybody already knew that there were ineffective.
 
Darla said:
I have to say one more thing on this thread. Both desh and bac are two of my favorite posters so this is not personal.

But the fact is that Desh sees everything Obama does or might do as being above reproach and for the greater good, and bac sees everything he does or might do as either having no effect or as being very harmful. Desh is all about Obama=good, and bac is all about Obama-bad.

This is why the republican posters like cawacko, and the not a republican republican posters like epic and smarter, love bac and hate desh.

But the fact remains that the truth is somewhere in between.
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You make a nice attempt at the reading the situation Darla but are very wrong.

What I've said numerous times is that I respect Bac for standing up for his political principle and not just going with the partisan wind. I've also stated numerous times that my views are 180 degrees opposite from his and I think some of his are outright crazy. With his views if he were on here repeatedly praising Obama I would be very scared.

I have no personal problem with Desh. She seems like a very nice and caring person. You described correctly above how she views Obama and the Democratic Party. So it does make it more entertaining/frustrating to talk/debate with someone who has almost a religious like fervor (sp) in their beliefs.
 
cawacko said:
You make a nice attempt at the reading the situation Darla but are very wrong.

What I've said numerous times is that I respect Bac for standing up for his political principle and not just going with the partisan wind. I've also stated numerous times that my views are 180 degrees opposite from his and I think some of his are outright crazy. With his views if he were on here repeatedly praising Obama I would be very scared.

I have no personal problem with Desh. She seems like a very nice and caring person. You described correctly above how she views Obama and the Democratic Party. So it does make it more entertaining/frustrating to talk/debate with someone who has almost a religious like fervor (sp) in their beliefs.
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Excusez-moi, I shouldn't have used the word "hate" in your case. I understand what you are saying, but doubt that everyone shares your view. I think that some on the right do hate desh, to the extent you can hate someone on the internet. Intensely dislike. And you probably have given more thought to bac's actual political positions than some on the right here have.
 
Darla said:
I don't think that Obama is the first role model for blacks to come along by any means. But I have seen people as successfull as Eugene Robinson of the Washington Post saying that this means something to them. This is not to say that any white liberal would ever think this in an of itself does anything to improve the lives of the black youths facing the societal circumstances which you describe. It is like a white male aquaintance of mine said to me about that idea; that his life had sucked for many reasons and 43 white presidents hadnt' changed that.

I really don't know exactly what it means in the long run, I don't think anyone does yet. But I did see a lot of black kids saying that Obama meant they could be President someday. I suspect it's going to mean something. I suspect that someday, one of those kids is going to do something, become something, and they are going to talk about the day they saw Barack Obama being sworn in. But that's decades off. In the meantime, the other problems you talk about won't be fixed by having a black president, no.

But not all white liberals are the paternalistic types you describe. I never felt that my vote for Obama was a way of feeling good about myself making up for historical wrongs. I don't think that way at all. A lot of people don't.
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Oftentimes when I attended antiwar marches and demonstrations during the height of opposition to the Iraq war, I've been asked by several people why there weren't more African-Americans in attendance, especially given we are the most antiwar demographic in America. My response to the questioner was always, you should ask yourself why more white people don't show up in demonstrations against the racial injustice of the criminal injustice system and wholesale murder of innocent black people by the police .. particularly liberals who claim to be concerned about such issues. Why do blacks have to fight these battles alone? The truth of this injustice is indisputable.

Point being, I admit to a degree of frustratiuon listening to people who claim America is so much better because Obama is the president .. while at the same time not involved in and completely ignoring the injustice that continues to devastate black communities and families. As if our reality has no business getting in the way of their illusions about the reality of America.

For many Americans of all races Obama's election as president represents a historic moment and step towards a better direction, and I acknowledge that. However, it's symbolism, and unless Obama moves to address injustice, symbolism is all it is. Frankly, I still believe white John Edwards would have done far more to address injustice, including in the black community, than black Barack Obama.

I don't attack everything that Obama does, but I also don't treat him any differently than if he was white .. except that I don't expect any white president to have a sense of loyalty and consciousness for the generations of black people who shoulders they would be standing on .. which I suspect you would expect of a woman president.

Black kids and adults celebrating Obama and claiming the sky is the limit are expressions of the emotion of the moment .. but beyond the emotion lies the truth that little to nothing has actually changed the state of black America. If you think I give Desh grief about this truth, you should spend some time with me debating black audiences about it.

I agree with you that I painted liberals with too broad a brush, and I didn't mean to disrespect their well-intended perspectives.
 
Darla said:
I have to say one more thing on this thread. Both desh and bac are two of my favorite posters so this is not personal.

But the fact is that Desh sees everything Obama does or might do as being above reproach and for the greater good, and bac sees everything he does or might do as either having no effect or as being very harmful. Desh is all about Obama=good, and bac is all about Obama-bad.

This is why the republican posters like cawacko, and the not a republican republican posters like epic and smarter, love bac and hate desh.

But the fact remains that the truth is somewhere in between.
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Desh is one of my favorite posters as well. We simply disagree on the impact of Obama.

Again, I don't attack everything Obama does, I applaud him when I think warranted, but I will criticize what I don't agree with.

If posters on the right don't see me as the enemy, that's a good thing but it doesn't come because I'm on the right. I simply don't see them as the root of all evil, nor did I see this of George Bush. That's a problem for many of my friends on the left. I'd rather talk about what's wrong with the left than constantly demonize the right. You don't get better or smarter by pointing out all the faults of your opposition, you get better by correcting your own.

Additionally, I really don't care what people think about what I believe. I truly don't. I'm a black socialist who believes 9/11 was our Reischtag Fire and I'm real comfortable defending all of that. Most people are not intellectually honest even with themselves and all manner of conditioning prevents them from clarity. I don't have that problem.
 
blackascoal said:
Oftentimes when I attended antiwar marches and demonstrations during the height of opposition to the Iraq war, I've been asked by several people why there weren't more African-Americans in attendance, especially given we are the most antiwar demographic in America. My response to the questioner was always, you should ask yourself why more white people don't show up in demonstrations against the racial injustice of the criminal injustice system and wholesale murder of innocent black people by the police .. particularly liberals who claim to be concerned about such issues. Why do blacks have to fight these battles alone? The truth of this injustice is indisputable.

Point being, I admit to a degree of frustratiuon listening to people who claim America is so much better because Obama is the president .. while at the same time not involved in and completely ignoring the injustice that continues to devastate black communities and families. As if our reality has no business getting in the way of their illusions about the reality of America.

For many Americans of all races Obama's election as president represents a historic moment and step towards a better direction, and I acknowledge that. However, it's symbolism, and unless Obama moves to address injustice, symbolism is all it is. Frankly, I still believe white John Edwards would have done far more to address injustice, including in the black community, than black Barack Obama.

I don't attack everything that Obama does, but I also don't treat him any differently than if he was white .. except that I don't expect any white president to have a sense of loyalty and consciousness for the generations of black people who shoulders they would be standing on .. which I suspect you would expect of a woman president.

Black kids and adults celebrating Obama and claiming the sky is the limit are expressions of the emotion of the moment .. but beyond the emotion lies the truth that little to nothing has actually changed the state of black America. If you think I give Desh grief about this truth, you should spend some time with me debating black audiences about it.

I agree with you that I painted liberals with too broad a brush, and I didn't mean to disrespect their well-intended perspectives.
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Well I agree with much of what you say here, most importantly, your first paragraph.
 
evince said:
This is a GREAT day for the American people.

Kids will look at these men for the next few years and realize the the two most powerful politicians in the US are black.

This is good for America.
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While I agree with your enthusiasm, I would hardly call the head of the RNC the second most powerful politician in America.
 
Here's something Steele is saying that makes a point that I've been saying ..


Bipatrisanship is Overrated, Says New RNC Chair

"I know we're living in the era of bipartisanship," Steele joked to the House GOP congressmen who gathered this weekend to discuss policy and politics. "I thought it was very important to send a signal, and you sent it loudly, very clearly, that this party, the leadership of this caucus, would stand first and foremost with the American people. You made it very clear that in order to grow through this recession that you not redistribute the wealth of the people of this nation."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/31/bipartisanship-is-overrated-says-new-rnc-chair/

Bullshit "bipartisan kumbaya politics" is something only democrats do, because they don't have the courage to lead.
 
blackascoal said:
Here's something Steele is saying that makes a point that I've been saying ..


Bipatrisanship is Overrated, Says New RNC Chair

"I know we're living in the era of bipartisanship," Steele joked to the House GOP congressmen who gathered this weekend to discuss policy and politics. "I thought it was very important to send a signal, and you sent it loudly, very clearly, that this party, the leadership of this caucus, would stand first and foremost with the American people. You made it very clear that in order to grow through this recession that you not redistribute the wealth of the people of this nation."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/31/bipartisanship-is-overrated-says-new-rnc-chair/

Bullshit "bipartisan kumbaya politics" is something only democrats do, because they don't have the courage to lead.
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I could not agree more.
 
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