Military Service

Rune said:
I am not confused in the least.
I agree with the vast majority of your post above.
I virulently disagree with your notion that ANYONE who volunteers to serve their country deserves no thanks. This is where your confusion lies, especially in that you yourself provided their primary reason for joining, lack of choice due to economic privation, caused by the very neo-cons you yourself hold responsible in the first place.

To blame the least of us for the circumstances caused by our overlords is not logical.
Click to expand...
I don't blame anyone for choices made. In fact, I merely asked why we go out of our way to thank kids in the military, solely because they chose that vocation?

Typically, we hear comments like "they protect our freedoms" or, "they defend our right to free speech".

No two statements could be farther from the truth. It could be easily argued that our military policies make us less safe due to our insistence on putting military bases in muslim holy lands.

Whereas I believe we as a society have learned to separate the pawns from the kings, I wonder why we cling to a policy of overcompensation when it comes to today's kids, due to the mistakes made when the Viet era pawns came home.

I view these thanks as a habit, much like many others we have, that's not borne out of actual thought. More like a reflex.


This isn't a statement of deserved, or not deserved. It's a comparison of today's military vs. that of the draft era military.





There isn't anyone on this board who can honestly say his service in the military actually kept us 'safe', or protected our 'rights'.

We fight for a free flow of oil. Nothing more.
 
christiefan915 said:
cheney wasn't with halliburton since 1951. But after he became CEO there was some fishy stuff going on.

From 1995 until 2000, [cheney] served as Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer of Halliburton, a Fortune 500 company. Cheney's record as CEO was subject to some dispute among Wall Street analysts. A 1998 merger between Halliburton and Dresser Industries attracted the criticism of some Dresser executives for Halliburton's lack of accounting transparency.[SUP][59][/SUP] Although Cheney is not named as an individual defendant in the suit, Halliburton shareholders are pursuing a class-action lawsuit alleging that the corporation artificially inflated its stock price during this period. In June of 2011, the United States Supreme Court reversed a lower court ruling and allowed the case to continue be litigated.[SUP][60][/SUP] Cheney was named in a December 2010 corruption complaint filed by the Nigerian government against Halliburton, which the company settled for $250 million.[SUP][61][/SUP]


During Cheney's tenure, Halliburton changed its accounting practices regarding revenue realization of disputed costs on major construction projects.[SUP][62][/SUP] Cheney resigned as CEO of Halliburton on July 25, 2000. As vice president, he argued that this step removed any conflict of interest. Cheney's net worth, estimated to be between $30 million and $100 million, is largely derived from his post at Halliburton, as well as the Cheneys' gross income of nearly $8.82 million.[SUP][63][/SUP][SUP][not in citation given][/SUP]
Click to expand...
Also important in this discussion, is the pet project Cheney pushed when he was in the House.

Privatization of the military.
 
Althea said:
I don't blame anyone for choices made. In fact, I merely asked why we go out of our way to thank kids in the military, solely because they chose that vocation?

Typically, we hear comments like "they protect our freedoms" or, "they defend our right to free speech".

No two statements could be farther from the truth. It could be easily argued that our military policies make us less safe due to our insistence on putting military bases in muslim holy lands.

Whereas I believe we as a society have learned to separate the pawns from the kings, I wonder why we cling to a policy of overcompensation when it comes to today's kids, due to the mistakes made when the Viet era pawns came home.

I view these thanks as a habit, much like many others we have, that's not borne out of actual thought. More like a reflex.


This isn't a statement of deserved, or not deserved. It's a comparison of today's military vs. that of the draft era military.





There isn't anyone on this board who can honestly say his service in the military actually kept us 'safe', or protected our 'rights'.

We fight for a free flow of oil. Nothing more.
Click to expand...

Althea,

There is a reality that is apparent to most every logical American, probably starting at the age of 8 or so.... And that is that there are individuals that have taken an oath and pledged their lives to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States, or the authority that we recognize that provides our "freedoms" and "right to free speech". A piece of paper is not going to fill the void that you need filled if and when your rights are being stripped away at the point of a foreign.. or even a domestic weapon.. someone needs to stand in the gap with a weapon of their own.. This is common sense, and has proven to be true over the entire known history of civilization.

We currently have an all volunteer force.

So these individuals have voluntarily chosen to take an oath and pledge their lives to defend and uphold the recognized "authority" that provides the United States with freedom and right to free speech.

Since it is voluntary, it is a choice. Regardless of the circumstances, a choice is still a choice. Choosing to do this is a sacrifice, its a sacrifice of personal liberties on the low end, it can even ultimately be a sacrifice of life itself on the high end, certainly the risk of sacrifice is dramatically increased over that of most other civilian employment, and definitely so when matched on economic benefits. Such as it is... it is a voluntary "service", in that it is designed to serve your interests as a citizen of the nation.... with the direct and primary purpose of defending and upholding your rights and freedomes. Right now an 18 yr old Private First Class does this for less than $18,000.00 a year in net income.

That service provides pre-emptive capability, defensive capability, and retaliatory capability... all of which must be considered by those who might desire to do harm to the citizens of the United States.

Can you say that a fire department has "kept you safe", or "protected your life"? I personally havent ever been in a fire? The fire dept has never come put a fire out for my own property? Ive never been in the situation where a firefighter had to brave the flames to carry me out of the smoke.... But their presence in doing their service does provide protection to me as I know that if a fire was threatening my property i have someone who has dedicated their profession to knowing how to put it out, that they have and maintain equipment that can be utilized in the defense of my house and belongings, and that if my person was in danger they would do what they could in order to prevent me from dying in a fire. Like I said... even an 8 yr old can understand this. The purpose of the fire dept is not to make "profit", they perform duties for a society... or they serve the needs of the society as that society has recognized the need to keep their communities from burning to the ground.

I think any young person that chooses to do the work that is necessary, and chooses to do so for very little compensation, and chooses to do so knowing of the sacrifices that will be made and could be made in the service to others for the primary purpose for which they have been charged and employed, certainly earns something as simple as appreciation and thanks from those that they do this service for. I would argue only a moron would attempt to advocate a position that those kids are being "over-compensated" by simply being thanked.
 
SR_ said:
lol

This is from the "me" section of the website that she has chosen to link too as apart of her "research".

The first line is as follows:
"I’m just some guy from Philadelphia named Paul Lukasiak. I’m not an “expert” on anything, so please don’t describe me as one."
http://www.glcq.com/me.htm

hahaha

Nice work!!:good4u:
Click to expand...

He may not be an expert, but he has done his homework, care to is disprove what he presents!

That's what I thought...
 
Rana said:
He may not be an expert, but he has done his homework, care to is disprove what he presents!

That's what I thought...
Click to expand...

Why would anyone care to disprove anything that is not sourced from a recognized expert when presented as "research" or as "proof" for an argument?

Its not the reflection of the source, its the reflection of the person using the source. lol

Think about it. You chose to present information as a source for your perception and defense of your argument... and your source directly says "I’m just some guy from Philadelphia named Paul Lukasiak. I’m not an “expert” on anything, so please don’t describe me as one."....

Theres no reason to disprove your source, he's being honest about him not being an expert... the larger commentary is about YOU pawning this off as legitimate research and source for an argument.

hahaha... good job!!
 
SR_ said:
Why would anyone care to disprove anything that is not sourced from a recognized expert when presented as "research" or as "proof" for an argument?

Its not the reflection of the source, its the reflection of the person using the source. lol

Think about it. You chose to present information as a source for your perception and defense of your argument... and your source directly says "I’m just some guy from Philadelphia named Paul Lukasiak. I’m not an “expert” on anything, so please don’t describe me as one."....

Theres no reason to disprove your source, he's being honest about him not being an expert... the larger commentary is about YOU pawning this off as legitimate research and source for an argument.

hahaha... good job!!
Click to expand...

Well, quite honestly, I don't know any experts on the AWOL of George W Bush, but if you do, I would love to read them.

Like I said, you can't disprove any of it so you attack the source.

I think the guy did a very thorough job, but I bet you didn't even read the thing.

Just discounted it because the guy isn't an "expert"
 
Althea said:
I don't blame anyone for choices made. In fact, I merely asked why we go out of our way to thank kids in the military, solely because they chose that vocation?

Typically, we hear comments like "they protect our freedoms" or, "they defend our right to free speech".
Click to expand...

Sorry, Althea. I have to disagree again. These kids primarily come from poor environments and are the product of a massive economic collapse a few years ago. Many others joined the military out of patriotism after 9/11. They do "protect our freedoms" in whatever way they can.

You're blaming the kids serving and dying for you for the errors of the commanders and a former president. Don't do that. Thank them.

We've had bases in Turkey, a Muslim country, for decades. A country rich in history and culture and as safe for our children as anywhere today. Bases in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere are temporary and will close upon the end of the hostilities.

SR_ said:
lol

Paul Lukasiak.
Click to expand...

Oh. I thought you meant Paul Lukakis. He was da bomb in the gay clubs back in the 80's. Hot, too!



Boom, boom let's go back to my room!
 
Rana said:
Well, quite honestly, I don't know any experts on the AWOL of George W Bush, but if you do, I would love to read them.

Like I said, you can't disprove any of it so you attack the source.

I think the guy did a very thorough job, but I bet you didn't even read the thing.

Just discounted it because the guy isn't an "expert"
Click to expand...

Rana,

We have recognized methods of academic quality in research and in supplying reliable information for the purpose of learning and making decisions. GREAT MINDS from all across the globe have embraced this type of methodology so that humanity can make progress based upon proven and reliable sources of information. That is the benefit of being educated. That education is based on the understanding that what is being taught and the principles that are associated can be trusted to be valid. People spend their entire careers in the pursuit of this credibility.

This is what offers us with the opportunity to be exposed to new and interesting things.

I can point to several hundred thousand if not millions of articles written by people that say they have been abducted by aliens... but none of the credible, academic experts, media outlets, governmental authorities or anyone else that uses the trusted methods of intellectual human beings will lend that credibility to such "research projects" and therefor the arguments for those advocating alien conspiracies are weak.

Do we or should we disprove their articles? No...

Should we take serious anyone who sources or quotes such articles as "proof" of anything? Of course not...

Come on.. you know this to be true. If someone who disagreed with you posted an article like this who's author comes out and directly says "I’m just some guy from Philadelphia named Paul Lukasiak. I’m not an “expert” on anything, so please don’t describe me as one."... what would you say?

Come on.. lol
 
"Well, quite honestly, I don't know any experts on the AWOL of George W Bush, but if you do, I would love to read them."


maybe... just maybe... with the existence of qualified journalist and experts that IF you cant honestly find anything credible... that is possible... that its not a credible point of view.

Just saying... I know theres a lot of very smart qualified researchers and experts in these fields that exist in our society that could and would lend their credibility and careers to truthful and credible stories... and it might be the case that if you cant find any willing to do that, then maybe your point of view actually ISNT credible or valid?

Just throwing that out there for thought.
 
SR_ said:
"Well, quite honestly, I don't know any experts on the AWOL of George W Bush, but if you do, I would love to read them."


maybe... just maybe... with the existence of qualified journalist and experts that IF you cant honestly find anything credible... that is possible... that its not a credible point of view.

Just saying... I know theres a lot of very smart qualified researchers and experts in these fields that exist in our society that could and would lend their credibility and careers to truthful and credible stories... and it might be the case that if you cant find any willing to do that, then maybe your point of view actually ISNT credible or valid?

Just throwing that out there for thought.
Click to expand...

Can you disprove any of his information?

Yeah, that's what I thought.
 
SR_ said:
Rana,

We have recognized methods of academic quality in research and in supplying reliable information for the purpose of learning and making decisions. GREAT MINDS from all across the globe have embraced this type of methodology so that humanity can make progress based upon proven and reliable sources of information. That is the benefit of being educated. That education is based on the understanding that what is being taught and the principles that are associated can be trusted to be valid. People spend their entire careers in the pursuit of this credibility.

This is what offers us with the opportunity to be exposed to new and interesting things.

I can point to several hundred thousand if not millions of articles written by people that say they have been abducted by aliens... but none of the credible, academic experts, media outlets, governmental authorities or anyone else that uses the trusted methods of intellectual human beings will lend that credibility to such "research projects" and therefor the arguments for those advocating alien conspiracies are weak.

Do we or should we disprove their articles? No...

Should we take serious anyone who sources or quotes such articles as "proof" of anything? Of course not...

Come on.. you know this to be true. If someone who disagreed with you posted an article like this who's author comes out and directly says "I’m just some guy from Philadelphia named Paul Lukasiak. I’m not an “expert” on anything, so please don’t describe me as one."... what would you say?

Come on.. lol
Click to expand...

Can you find any errors? Can you disprove his information?

Yeh, that's what I thought.
 
Rana said:
Can you disprove any of his information?

Yeah, that's what I thought.
Click to expand...
He provided fake info, it is unsupported by evidence.
Consider it disproved.

Oh HONORABLE DISCHARGE!
They don't give them to deserters!
 
SR_ said:
. I would argue only a moron would attempt to advocate a position that those kids are being "over-compensated" by simply being thanked.
Click to expand...
Well then, moron, as soon as you find someone who takes that position, you be sure to engage them.

I know quite a few kids who serve right now. They ALL recognize that Iraq was a bullshit waste of time. They ALL think that the time they served there was nothing but one clusterfuck mission after another. And they all say that those they served with are just doing their time, and waiting to go home. Save for the morons who just like to blow shit up.





Would you give thanks to those who make 100 times what our military kids make, by working for Halliburtion et al?
 
007 said:
Nice to see your deliberate and dishonest misinterpretation of my posts.
Click to expand...

You said you think he lied for personal gain and he's therefore a turncoat. Were you in his fleet? Do you know he lied? No.

So until you can prove beyond a doubt that Secretary of State John Kerry lied about his accusations, you have no basis for your criticisms. Mr. Kerry broke no laws.
 
SR_ said:
"Well, quite honestly, I don't know any experts on the AWOL of George W Bush, but if you do, I would love to read them."


maybe... just maybe... with the existence of qualified journalist and experts that IF you cant honestly find anything credible... that is possible... that its not a credible point of view.

Just saying... I know theres a lot of very smart qualified researchers and experts in these fields that exist in our society that could and would lend their credibility and careers to truthful and credible stories... and it might be the case that if you cant find any willing to do that, then maybe your point of view actually ISNT credible or valid?

Just throwing that out there for thought.
Click to expand...
Bush wasn't AWOL. He was granted special privileges that others don't get, to help with a variety of political campaigns several times during the course of his vacation in the TANG
 
007 said:
He provided fake info, it is unsupported by evidence.
Consider it disproved.

Oh HONORABLE DISCHARGE!
They don't give them to deserters!
Click to expand...

They do when your father is the future directer of the CIA and President of the US, not a meat popsicle like you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top