NATO’s Scorched Earth in Ukraine | Consortium News
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anonymoose
Classical Liberal
Yes, Russia is becoming a rump state economically.
Their biggest trading partners besides China were in the EU before the war. And most of that was oil and gas.
All they have is China, Turkey and India to buy their gas - at a discount.
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As I've mentioned before, it was NATO members, particularly the U.S., whose aggression was instrumental in getting Russia to intervene in the Ukraine civil war. The 2 factors was NATO expansion eastward despite U.S. officials' promises of not going on inch east of Germany and the renewed attack on the Donbass Republics just days before Russia finally decided to intervene in the Ukraine civil war. For more information on the second part, I made a thread that references an article from a former Swiss Intelligence Officer who gets into the details:
Former Swiss Intelligence Officer blows the whistle on West's Ukraine War Narrative | justplainpolitics.com
That really depends on how one defines Ukraine, doesn't it? I suspect you define Ukraine as the borders it had back before Euromaidan, when Crimea was still part of it. Crimea never fired on Russia. After Euromaidan, they held a referendum back in 2014 to rejoin Russia, the side voting to rejoin Russia won by a landslide and Russia agreed to let them rejoin and promptly annexed them.
The Donbass regions of Donetsk and Lugansk also held referendums after Euromaidan wherein they voted for more independence from the new anti Russian government in Kyiv. Kyiv responded by conducting a special military operation on them, which turned into an 8 year long civil war. Russia tried to work out some lasting peace agreements via the Minsk and Minsk II accords, but Ukraine and their western Allies just used those to buy more time to build up the Ukrainian army and try to retake the Donbass regions (now calling themselves the Donbass Republics) by force.
Russia certainly didn't fire on the Donbass Republics. In point of fact, the Donbass Republics specifically requested Russian aid when they were being attacked yet again by the Ukrainian military, starting on February 16th. Russian Parliament had already urged Putin to recognize the Donbass Republics the day before, on February 15th, concerned that all those Ukrainian troops amassing on the Donbass Republics' borders weren't there just for show, but Putin initially refused. It was only after around 5 days of heavy bombardment by the Ukrainian military that Putin relented and recognized them on February 21st. Even then, I suspect Putin had been hoping that simply recognizing them as independent Republics might be enough and Ukraine would back off. Ukraine didn't though, just kept on bombarding the Donbass Republics, which finally led to Putin starting his military operation on February 24th.
Yes, but I think it's important to note that a lot of the Ukrainians fighting weren't fighting in the regions they were raised in, but rather in the eastern regions. Until you recognize the fact that there has been a divide between western and eastern Ukraine, I doubt you will ever understand the culpability of western Ukraine and its western allies in fomenting this war between Russia and Ukraine.
As I've noted in the past, I've never been a fan of conscription, so I certainly wasn't a fan of Putin's partial mobilization of Russian males. That being said, Zelensky forbid working age males from leaving Ukraine the day after Russia's military operation started.
And as to untrained, from what I've seen, it's Ukraine that's been doing more of that recently:
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May 25, 2023
Ukraine sent untrained recruits into the battle of Bakhmut to save its professional soldiers for an expected counteroffensive, The Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.
The Journal spoke with men who were part of a small group that was sent into Bakhmut, which became known as the meat grinder, just a few days after being mobilized.
Out of 16 men in the group of draftees, 11 were either killed or captured. The Journal described them as “mostly poor men from villages in the northeastern Kharkiv region, many of them unemployed, doing odd jobs as handymen or shift work at factories in the regional capital.”
Some of the men had military training years or decades ago, but none had combat experience. A few of them threatened to refuse orders when they were told they were being sent to the frontlines on February 21, citing a lack of training, but they ultimately went.
One man, Vladyslav Yudin, told the Journal that he told a sergeant major that he had never fired or even held a gun before. “Bakhmut will teach you,” Yudin was told.
The men participated in brutal house-to-house combat in Bakhmut. Many of them are presumed dead, but their families are still holding out hope that they were captured by the Russians and are still alive.
The men’s accounts match what Ukrainians fighting on the frontlines had been telling the media while the battle was still raging. They told stories of troops being sent in with little support, training, or ammunition.
The Washington Post spoke to a Ukrainian battalion commander in March who said he was being sent fresh recruits who didn’t want to fire their guns because they were afraid of the sound.
**
Source:
Ukraine Sent Poor, Untrained Men Into Bakhmut Meat Grinder to Save Better Forces for Counteroffensive | antiwar.com
I guess you commis think we will forget the Russian army marching to the Ukraine border. We wondered if they were going to start a war. Biden told us all, his info was Putin was going in. Putin sent his army into Ukraine and has been waging war ever since. You crazy commies think Ukraine is like a girl being raped. She asked for it.This is Putin's war . he has actually strengthened NATO. He proved that their prime directive to stand against Russian aggression is as valid today as it ever was.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
yes, you have......it was very stupid for you to have mentioned it.....the only aggression was that of Putin, over and over again.......I am curious......why do you side with Russia against the US?......are you a recent immigrant?.......are you a paid agent for a foreign government?......what's your motive?......
Agreed. There are some here who don't seem to be catching on to this reality though.
Agreed.
Pretty sad that the only U.S. officials who are willing to seriously talk to Russia on a possible exit strategy to this war are in the former category -.-
Nukes. The U.S. was just as leery about having nukes from Russia in Cuba, but people seem to forget about that.
We can both agree that it's good that his extreme warmongering is no longer part of the equation. That being said, while there may be no one who's quite so foolhardy as to -advocate- for a war with Russia, what the U.S. is doing now in Ukraine is still pretty foolhardy and might still lead to a nuclear exchange if not armaggedon.
Agreed, Putin amoung them. Putin could have gone to war in the Ukraine a -long- time ago. Nowadays, he's saying that it might well have been better, back when the Ukrainian military wasn't so built up. I suspect he did the right thing by trying to negotiate a lasting peace for 8 years. It speaks to his credentials as someone who wanted to resolve this conflict without going to war for a very long time.
Following your analogy, perhaps the 2 parties could explain why they are seeing different animals. Perhaps that's what you're trying to do below...
I don't live in Ukraine or Russia. I think it's up to them to decide what's acceptable. From what I've read, it appears that Russia might settle for getting to keep the land it's acquired and some peace treaty with what remains of Ukraine. I honestly think it'd be in the best interests of Ukrainians to accept such a deal if it comes up. I believe not doing so will just lead to more deaths with the end result still being the same. Only the more time goes by, the more I think that Russia may take even more Ukrainian territories.
QP!
Verified User
Many younger people are not aware of how dire things were in the Cold War, for the USSR, which was far bigger and stronger than Russia is now, with far more countries and resources to draw upon.
Shelves bare. Things like automobiles generations behind. Lots of poverty and despair.
Many older Russians do recall.
The younger are about to find out, as Putin's actions greatly diminish the EU need for Russian resources, and makes them dependant on CHina and India who will milk them for all the discount prices they can get.
This war of aggression by Putin has been an abject failure and he owns it. All of it.
He has expanded NATO beyond what anyone in NATO would have imagined. He has put NATo up against Russia's borders in ways that dwarf what it was prior. He has made Russia much poorer and killed off many of their sons? Why? For his personal ego, and because Ukraines growing success, once they kicked Putin and his Oligarchs out was shining the brightest spotlight on how it was Putin and his Oligarchs that were the problem. Something Russian citizens would not be able to not see, as their cousins in Ukraine got more and more wealthy and optimistic while Russia remained stagnated and under performing under Putin.
They were acting as agents of the Regime.... what is really sad is that after the Regime was blown off by the Russians they leak it all to Regime Media, highlighting their suckage.
The waking up to reality will be brutal for America after so many years of living in delusions and fantasy, after so many years of refusing to learn.
But stupid should hurt, and BIG PAIN is the teacher of last resort.
I decided the subject of America's decline/collapse merited a thread of its own, so I made one and responded to your comment there:
Chris Hedges: The Unraveling of the American Empire | justplainpolitics.com
I follow about 20 Twitters closely for new ideas and to get links to things they have published....Chris Hedges is one of them.
Edit...I just counted ...it is now 26....the list has been growing.
anonymoose
Classical Liberal
Halfheartedly on Putin’s part.
Zelenskyy gave a real effort:
in October 2019 Zelensky announced that he had struck a preliminary deal with the separatists, under which the Ukrainian government would respect elections held in Donbas.
Zelensky had been elected to bring peace. But there were armed elements on both sides who were not ready to make the compromises necessary … they preferred to fight than give one centimetre.’
Zelensky and Putin’s meeting ( Paris on 9 December 2019) made no political progress–nor could it, as Zelensky had already made significant concessions in October .
Putin’s hectoring style did not help. ‘Putin knew how to give orders, but he didn’t know how to negotiate,’ recalled Mendel. ‘For more than two decades, no one had contradicted him, nor had anyone been willing to bring him bad news. This made Putin a weak negotiator. Instead, he used only blackmail and various instruments of war to negotiate.’ 59
Excerpt from page 150, Overreach:
https://www.amazon.com/Overreach-In...?dplnkId=dc8c1a9b-cd33-4388-81b4-9cb3bcab9425
LIAR, he campaigned on peace but within months of the election went the other way as if that was the plan all along.
anonymoose
Classical Liberal
I would say America's cities are unrecognizable from just 3-4 years ago. A result of not only democrat policies but the people that actually choose to vote in those policies.
Dims have always been the party that was soft on crime, now they basically condone it.
The rest of America outside decaying cities is doing just fine.
anonymoose
Classical Liberal
Read the book.
Until then fasten your seatbelt - tighter and tighter.
Or since things will be getting as bad as you say, just go ahead and eat a bullet if you're not going to obey the Han and Russians.