New photos show ‘haphazard manner’ in which Trump allegedly stored classified documents: prosecutors

Truth Detector said:
So, you're okay with a double standard judicial system? Where one gets prosecuted, and the rest are left alone? That's moronic.
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No, but this isn't a case where the situations are the same. Maybe the situations with Pence and Biden are the same - both VP's, both had classified docs, both disclosed that fact to the FBI and immediately returned them. Those two should both be charged and penalized equally.

Trump's situation is different. He didn't disclose that he had them. The NARA knew that he had them. He didn't immediately return them. He eventually returned some of them and then had his lawyer lie. He should also be charged and penalized more severely than Pence or Biden.
 
ZenMode said:
Again, ALL documents, except for his truly personal documents, are required to be turned over to the NARA before he left office. The NARA gave him plenty of time to do the right thing. He chose not to, so the Federal Government went and got them.
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He did, and NARA delivered the documents to Mar-a-Lago, as required by law.
 
Truth Detector said:
Where does it say, "before he leaves office"?

The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. ß2201-2209, governs the official records of Presidents and Vice Presidents that were created or received after January 20, 1981 (i.e., beginning with the Reagan Administration). The PRA changed the legal ownership of the official records of the President from private to public, and established a new statutory structure under which Presidents, and subsequently NARA, must manage the records of their Administrations. The PRA was amended in 2014, which established several new provisions.

Specifically, the PRA:

  • Establishes public ownership of all Presidential records and defines the term Presidential records.
  • Requires that Vice-Presidential records be treated in the same way as Presidential records.
  • Places the responsibility for the custody and management of incumbent Presidential records with the President.
  • Requires that the President and his staff take all practical steps to file personal records separately from Presidential records.
  • Allows the incumbent President to dispose of records that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value, once the views of the Archivist of the United States on the proposed disposal have been obtained in writing.
  • Establishes in law that any incumbent Presidential records (whether textual or electronic) held on courtesy storage by the Archivist remain in the exclusive legal custody of the President and that any request or order for access to such records must be made to the President, not NARA.
  • Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office.
  • Establishes a process by which the President may restrict and the public may obtain access to these records after the President leaves office; specifically, the PRA allows for public access to Presidential records through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) beginning five years after the end of the Administration, but allows the President to invoke as many as six specific restrictions to public access for up to twelve years.
  • Codifies the process by which former and incumbent Presidents conduct reviews for executive privilege prior to public release of records by NARA (which had formerly been governed by Executive order 13489).
  • Establishes procedures for Congress, courts, and subsequent Administrations to obtain “special access” to records from NARA that remain closed to the public, following a privilege review period by the former and incumbent Presidents; the procedures governing such special access requests continue to be governed by the relevant provisions of E.O. 13489.
  • Establishes preservation requirements for official business conducted using non-official electronic messaging accounts: any individual creating Presidential records must not use non-official electronic messaging accounts unless that individual copies an official account as the message is created or forwards a complete copy of the record to an official messaging account. (A similar provision in the Federal Records Act applies to federal agencies.)
  • Prevents an individual who has been convicted of a crime related to the review, retention, removal, or destruction of records from being given access to any original records.
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Quoting random snippets of the PRA now?
 
ZenMode said:
You can believe whatever you'd like regarding Joe, espionage, his intentions with the classified docs.... it's irrelevant.
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Joe's theft of classified material and his espionage is completely relevant! Fallacy fallacy.
ZenMode said:
Trump had a year and a half to to turn over what was legally required to be in the National Archives.
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Trump is not required to turn anything over to the National Archives. He is authorized to retain any document he wishes.
ZenMode said:
He decided not to turn them over,
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He doesn't have to turn them over.
ZenMode said:
and lie about it,
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He didn't lie. He doesn't have to turn them over.
ZenMode said:
so the government went and got them.
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Unconstitutional.
 
ZenMode said:
I took that from a FAQ's document on the federal government's site. Here's at least some of the wording IN the PRA:

(g)(1) Upon the conclusion of a President’s term of office, or if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, the Archivist of the United States shall assume responsibility for the custody, control, and preservation of, and access to, the Presidential records of that President. The Archivist shall have an affirmative duty to make such records available to the public as rapidly and completely as possible consistent with the provisions of this chapter.

www.archives.gov

Presidential Records (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22)

(44 U.S.C. Chapter 22) § 2201. Definitions § 2202. Ownership of Presidential records § 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records § 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records § 2205. Exceptions to restricted access § 2206. Regulations § 2207. Vice-Presidential records § Note...
www.archives.gov www.archives.gov

It's very odd that Trump supporters think the requirements of the PRA are being made up just to get Trump.
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Irrelevance fallacy. Trump did make the records available to the National Archives office, and they moved them to Mar-a-Lago at Trump's direction, in accordance with law.

Trump is authorized to retain any document he wishes. He doesn't have to declassify them.

Biden, on the other hand, STOLE classified documents he never had any authority to retain, then exposed them to agents traveling to Ukraine and China, and was PAID by those same governments (treason).

Hillary Clinton exposed classified material she was never authorized to retain on public server. She also sold United States property for personal gain.

Why is Trump the only person being prosecuted? And for what? He broke no law.
 
ZenMode said:
No, but this isn't a case where the situations are the same. Maybe the situations with Pence and Biden are the same - both VP's, both had classified docs, both disclosed that fact to the FBI and immediately returned them. Those two should both be charged and penalized equally.
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Biden has classified documents even before he became VP. He never had authority to have to documents for any length of time, and he had them for years. The VP is not authorized to have those documents either.
ZenMode said:
Trump's situation is different.
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That it is. It's political persecution. It has nothing to do with any documents.
ZenMode said:
He didn't disclose that he had them.
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Blatant lie. He did.
ZenMode said:
The NARA knew that he had them.
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Of course they knew. They shipped the documents to him!
ZenMode said:
He didn't immediately return them.
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He doesn't have to return them!
ZenMode said:
He eventually returned some of them
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He doesn't have to return them!
ZenMode said:
and then had his lawyer lie.
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Word stuffing. Void argument fallacy.
ZenMode said:
He should also be charged and penalized more severely than Pence or Biden.
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For what? Trump broke no law. Biden committed treason.

So far, Biden has committed treason four times:

* Providing weapons and supplies to the enemy in time of war.
* Inviting invasion of the United States.
* Calling for civil war upon citizens of the United States.
* Espionage.
 
Into the Night said:
Joe's theft of classified material and his espionage is completely relevant! Fallacy fallacy.

Trump is not required to turn anything over to the National Archives. He is authorized to retain any document he wishes.

He doesn't have to turn them over.

He didn't lie. He doesn't have to turn them over.

Unconstitutional.
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When was the PRA ruled by the courts to be unconstitutional?
 
Into the Night said:
Biden has classified documents even before he became VP. He never had authority to have to documents for any length of time, and he had them for years. The VP is not authorized to have those documents either.

That it is. It's political persecution. It has nothing to do with any documents.

Blatant lie. He did.

Of course they knew. They shipped the documents to him!

He doesn't have to return them!

He doesn't have to return them!

Word stuffing. Void argument fallacy.

For what? Trump broke no law. Biden committed treason.

So far, Biden has committed treason four times:

* Providing weapons and supplies to the enemy in time of war.
* Inviting invasion of the United States.
* Calling for civil war upon citizens of the United States.
* Espionage.
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When was the PRA ruled by the courts to be unconstitutional?
 
Into the Night said:
Irrelevance fallacy. Trump did make the records available to the National Archives office, and they moved them to Mar-a-Lago at Trump's direction, in accordance with law.

Trump is authorized to retain any document he wishes. He doesn't have to declassify them.

Biden, on the other hand, STOLE classified documents he never had any authority to retain, then exposed them to agents traveling to Ukraine and China, and was PAID by those same governments (treason).

Hillary Clinton exposed classified material she was never authorized to retain on public server. She also sold United States property for personal gain.

Why is Trump the only person being prosecuted? And for what? He broke no law.
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When was the PRA ruled by the courts to be unconstitutional?
 
Into the Night said:
RQAA.
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No you didn't! YOU said it was unconstitutional. Your opinion means nothing.

So, when was that ruling, again?

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