No one has a right to healthcare

Rune said:
Pretty sure Evince didn't vote to raise the national debt via unfunded wars mandates or tax cuts for the rich which we had to borrow to pay for.
That would be your side you disingenous hump.
Shut the fuck up.
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It went-up in the 90s, as well, when military spending was down and taxes were raised.
 
Abatis said:
The "disagreement" over healthcare "rights" is un-resolvable because the basic argument is pitting foundational principles of the Constitution versus 20th Century communitarian ideals. This is a fight between Constitutionalists arguing there is no foundation for government providing those comforts and Marxists / Leninists and their vulgar demands for social, cultural and economic rights. It is the unavoidable friction between original, first generation "negative" rights and 20th Century second generation "positive" rights.

The modern left throws around the term "rights" in a way that denigrates the true meaning (as understood by the founders / framers). According to the modern left, we have NO right to keep and bear arms, but we do have the "right" to (government provided / mandated) affordable housing, a living wage, education, health care and prescriptions, internet access, etc.

The purpose of this Orwellian new-speak is to redefine our rights into a fuzzy, moldable menu of services, privileges and entitlements we can apply for. Upon filling out the proper forms (no ID or proof of citizenship required) and payment of license fees, a bureaucrat can stamp “APPROVED” and our benevolent government will bestow some "rights" upon us. Unfortunately, with that mindset comes the acceptance of the situational denial or outright removal of those "rights" (for our own good of course).

Our rights are NOT a list of services that government provides for us.

Nor are they tangible commodities that the government compels others to provide to us.

The left needs to frame this disagreement in emotional terms; how mean conservatives are, how right wingers want to see babies die, how the left just want to help people . . . This is the only argument they have because they can't argue any degree of constitutional legitimacy.

That second generation social, cultural and economic rights have no support in the Constitution is why the Constitution and its principles must be misrepresented or dismissed and ignored by the left. The left begins their arguments with a rejection of the principle of inherent rights and that rights were excepted out of the powers being granted by the people. This is substituted with the position that government possesses all power and grants or gives us our rights. This perversion needs to be done for obvious reasons.

The argument that rights are granted by or flow from government has as its primary intent to legitimize 20th century communitarian ideals (positive rights being the most important) as being represented in the Constitution and thus creating a mandate for government to provide those "rights". To do this, the entire fundamental structure of the Constitution (conferred powers vs retained rights) must be mutated and the original definition of rights (and their origin) must be scrubbed from the consciousness of Americans.

I'm not being mean when I reject the left's desire to destroy the Constitution and its foundational principles nor does it say that I relish the misery and deaths of fellow Americans. It just means that in a Constitutional Republic the powers of a federal form of government are limited, even the powers to do "good" and "help" people.
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If I give you 30 cyber-dollars will you promise to use a dictionary?
 
Rune said:
Pretty sure Evince didn't vote to raise the national debt via unfunded wars mandates or tax cuts for the rich which we had to borrow to pay for.
That would be your side you disingenous hump.
Shut the fuck up.
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She voted for Obama twice....so yes, she absolutely did.
 
evince said:
there is a car crash

the station wagon containing a small family rolls over three times ejecting a small child and as it comes to rest it bursts into flames.


people try to put out the flames but cant.


the car burns completely up


the small child is left bleeding in the street because she has no paper work to prove she has insuranace.



she dies in massive pain


that is the world you evil con seek
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Shaquanda quits school after having her 2nd child with as many baby daddies. Shaquanda can't get a job working anywhere but in a fast food restaurant. She can't afford health insurance. However, Shaquanda chose to lie down and spread her legs for those two baby daddies. People suggested she make better choices with her life but she told them to STFU as it was her business what she did. Now, when Shaquanda can't afford to financially fund the results to the choices SHE made and the two sperm donors are nowhere to be found, those she told to STFU are the ones she now expects to pay for HER choices.

No thanks.
 
Rune said:
Pretty sure Evince didn't vote to raise the national debt via unfunded wars mandates or tax cuts for the rich which we had to borrow to pay for.
That would be your side you disingenous hump.
Shut the fuck up.
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She voted for Obama twice and the national debt has gone up $7 - 8 trillion under Obama.

By the way, the income tax cuts were across the board, that's if she pays income taxes and they are still in effect today after 7 years of the one she voted being in office.

Since war is a delegated authority in the Constitution and funding the military is also there, you have no argument. You STFU.
 
evince said:
"why should I have to pay for people who are not willing to pay"


who is it they want paying this childs bill?


the hospital?


the other patients?
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I want you and those who believe like paying that child's bill since you think it should be paid. I pay for MY child's bills and expect the same thing from other parents.
 
evince said:
how is them paying more for care at the hospital because of this child BETTER than paying more in taxes?


because they FEEL bad paying taxes?
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Because neither one is the responsibility of anyone but the parents. Someone else's kids aren't my responsibility nor are mine theirs.
 
evince said:
did you even think it through you brain dead dupes?
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I've thought it through. If you want to pay for someone else's kids, do so. I'll pay for mine like I'm supposed to and expect others to do the same. Remember, they had their children.
 
CFM said:
Shaquanda quits school after having her 2nd child with as many baby daddies. Shaquanda can't get a job working anywhere but in a fast food restaurant. She can't afford health insurance. However, Shaquanda chose to lie down and spread her legs for those two baby daddies. People suggested she make better choices with her life but she told them to STFU as it was her business what she did. Now, when Shaquanda can't afford to financially fund the results to the choices SHE made and the two sperm donors are nowhere to be found, those she told to STFU are the ones she now expects to pay for HER choices.

No thanks.
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Grand wizard what junior college rejected you
 
The Dude said:
You pay for your wars klansman with your socialist military
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When you remove the part in Article I, Section 8 that give Congress the DELEGATED authority to fund the military and declare war, I will. Until then, the WORDS of the Constitution say otherwise. Not one word in the Constitution says healthcare nor implies it as a right. Seems you lost but you're a born loser.
 
Rune said:
Don't think she voted for Bush so no, she didn't vote for most of it.
Don't bother telling me some bullshit about Ibama either.Cheney fundamentally broke the economy.
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So you don't want to hear the truth about Obama? Not hearing it doesn't it's not true.
 
Stelakh said:
You're not digging yourself out of a hole with that one.

And what if I couldn't afford to pay their premiums but a couple million people could?

I mind people who want handouts but are freeloading. I have no trouble, however, helping those who NEED help and are NOT freeloading.

Let's say there's a diabetic who can't afford insulin (because despite it having been used for a VERY long time the cost is kept high by manufacturers (my sister's is $343.00 a vial and she goes through a vial every 2 days and fortunately has damned good insurance)). They can't afford the high cost, but a group of people who would wind up giving pennies per paycheck could help ensure that person has the insulin they need to survive.

I have no trouble helping that person even though I never spoke to them, laid eyes on them, or know who they are. Because we all need help at some point, some time, somewhere. And who am I to damn someone to a life of illness and misery if I can afford to help without killing my own financial bottom line?

If THAT is your definition of "bleeding heart," I'll gladly accept it - because I believe people are more important.
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I am pro health care for those who can't afford it. Maybe not pro Obama care but it's the best we have at this time. I absolutely agree with this post but.... but... I also feel government should be addressing the $343 a vial. That cost (and the cost of some other medications or treatments) is ridiculous, IMO. I know I'll get in trouble some free market people here but it's ridiculous the cost of health care in this country.
 
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