"No such law exists"

[QP!]

So, if I rob a bank and give the money back, I shouldn't be charged? Is that how it works? Somehow, I don't think that's how it works.

Do you think if Trump allowed them to "retrieve" them, you wouldn't still be screaming he should be charged? LOL!!
You people hate him so much, some of you find it extremely difficult to even type his name. You would prefer him hung.

What you should hope for is consistency in law application which is what we got.


Trump went first. He was given 18 months+ to simply give back the docs, when asked constantly and he refused and was not charged. It was not until a subpoena that he gave back some, and he still was not charged. At every step Trump learned 'give back the doc's and you will not be charged'.

Biden and Pence followed that template and they were not charged.

That is the fair and consistent application of the law as established by Trump.

Trump went one more step. Obstruction and lying in a sworn affidavit. Serious additional crimes. And for that he was charged and, yes if Biden or Pence does that, they should be charged too.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

No other president has done it and trump wasn't president when he left Washington.

Neither was Biden.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

He says that to dumbfucks like you because you are fucking stupid enough to believe it but his lawyers won't use that stupid excuse in court because they know it's bullshit. Just like his stupid claims that he declassified everything, they won't make that claim in court either because only his cult members like you are stupid enough to believe that one too.

Then tell us what arguments they will lose since you are apparently part of their inner circle.

 

[RB 60]

Neither was Biden.

That doesn't count. Biden is a Democrat.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

How come his lawyers don't move to dismiss the case based on that arguement? Trump makes that claim because he knows morons like you will believe it.

Because pre-trial hasn't started yet.

 

[QP!]

How to tell when Arbie has run out of intellectual ammunition.

Yup,

He is laughing at factual statements as if they are not true.

Trump was NOT charged for any of the doc's he returned. Same as Pence and Biden.

Trump was only charged with the ones he kept while lying and obstructing.

Arbie has convinced himself that despite NARA not involving the FBI nor raiding for 18 months while they pushed Trump to give them back voluntarily, that even if Trump did, he would have still got raided and charged even if they found nothing because he had given everything back.

What he seems to not know is they raided because they had very clear video footage of the moving and hiding of doc's amongst other evidence.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Agreed he's worried. He committed so many crimes in office, it was only a matter of time before one caught up to him. Trump has clearly abused his office such as pardoning Flynn.

Some happy breaking news:

Donald Trump says he’s a target of special counsel’s criminal probe into 2020 election aftermath

Former President Donald Trump said in a social media post that he’s been informed by special counsel Jack Smith that he is a target of the criminal investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

“Deranged Jack Smith, the prosecutor with Joe Biden’s DOJ, sent a letter (again, it was Sunday night!) stating that I am a TARGET of the January 6th Grand Jury investigation, and giving me a very short 4 days to report to the Grand Jury, which almost always means an Arrest and Indictment,” Trump posted on Truth Social.

Trump also received a target letter earlier this year from Smith before he was indicted in the investigation into the mishandling of classified documents.

A spokesman for the special counsel declined to comment.

A target letter from federal prosecutors to Trump makes clear that prosecutors are focused on Trump’s actions in the investigation into overturning the 2020 election – and not just of those around him who tried to stop his election loss.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Your hatred clouds any rational thought.

Do you really think he wouldn't be charged if he returned them without the FBI raiding his home?
Do you think they wouldn't raid his home if he returned them? They'd raid it looking for more.

If he had returned all the documents when first requested, he would not have been charged. This has been pointed out to you Trumpanzees over and over and over. Your worship of the orange buffoon clouds any rational thought on your part.

Enjoy this happy news too! I'll check back later to see if you've received your talking points from your masters yet.

Donald Trump says he’s a target of special counsel’s criminal probe into 2020 election aftermath

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

How to tell when Arbie has run out of intellectual ammunition.

He had some to begin with?

 

[QP!]

They weren't classified.

All of your arguments rely on that one single thing.

And the law is not on your side.

There is no law regarding how to declassify documents.

That is why you will lose in court.

You have to prove that Trump broke some declassification law but the problem is that there are none.

Once again your stupidity is showing as you comment on something you know nothing about.

The charges filed DO NOT require the documents be classified. The charges are based on them being 'Government docs', and thus they must remain in NARA control.

Meaning that even if Trump brought in proof to Court they were all declassified it would be meaningless to his charges and defense since that is not being charged.


Before you say your next stupid thing, gov't docs that do get declassified still remain gov't docs and no POTUS or ex POTUS can take them when they leave office. They have no power to make them 'Not gov't doc's'.

 

[QP!]

Then why wasn't Biden charged with taking documents?

There is nothing in that law stating that it's forgiven if you give them back is there?

There is nothing in any law that says anything is 'forgiven' if you cooperate and yet that happens every day.

Try walking out of a store "accidentally" taking something you did not pay for. When stopped just outside the store doors (theft is now real) try first just giving it back and saying 'sorry. did not realize i had that'. And then the next time 'refuse while lying and saying you have nothing until the police have to forcibly take it from you'.


You can say all you want that both SHOULD be charged, as they can be, but the law typically says, 'give it back, and don't make us escalate to get it back' and you will not be charged.

That is why for 18 months Trump was not charged for any of the documents he gave back willing and the charges he faces include none of the documents given back willingly. Very consistent with Pence and Biden treatment.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Once again your stupidity is showing as you comment on something you know nothing about.

The charges filed DO NOT require the documents be classified. The charges are based on them being 'Government docs', and thus they must remain in NARA control.

Meaning that even if Trump brought in proof to Court they were all declassified it would be meaningless to his charges and defense since that is not being charged.


Before you say your next stupid thing, gov't docs that do get declassified still remain gov't docs and no POTUS or ex POTUS can take them when they leave office. They have no power to make them 'Not gov't doc's'.

Then why wasn't Biden charged with taking documents?

 

[Tinkerpeach]

There is nothing in any law that says anything is 'forgiven' if you cooperate and yet that happens every day.

Try walking out of a store "accidentally" taking something you did not pay for. When stopped just outside the store doors (theft is now real) try first just giving it back and saying 'sorry. did not realize i had that'. And then the next time 'refuse while lying and saying you have nothing until the police have to forcibly take it from you'.


You can say all you want that both SHOULD be charged, as they can be, but the law typically says, 'give it back, and don't make us escalate to get it back' and you will not be charged.

That is why for 18 months Trump was not charged for any of the documents he gave back willing and the charges he faces include none of the documents given back willingly. Very consistent with Pence and Biden treatment.

Breaking the law is breaking the law.

You can't make exceptions for certain individuals.

If you try to nail Trump on this then Biden will be nailed on this, as will Pence, Obama and every other living president who left with documents.

You can't single out Trump.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

They weren't classified.

All of your arguments rely on that one single thing.

And the law is not on your side.

There is no law regarding how to declassify documents.

That is why you will lose in court.

You have to prove that Trump broke some declassification law but the problem is that there are none.

You are wrong, as always. Even your own #TangerineToddler told unauthorized persons, as he showed them classified documents, that they were still classified. Ask Vlad to reassign you to the dezinformatsiya bot farm cafeteria. You suck at this.

Other lines from the conversation, including Trump saying the document was still classified, but “as president I could have declassified it,” were included in the indictment.

 

[QP!]

Some happy breaking news:

Donald Trump says he’s a target of special counsel’s criminal probe into 2020 election aftermath

it's the gift that keeps on giving.

That is the notice Jack gives right before the charges are dropped so Trump, if he wants, can send in his lawyer to the Grand Jury, with any last minute appeals to not indict. We can expect the indictment likely within 5 business days.

Such exciting times. Trump better sharpen up his prison hand job dance.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Then why wasn't Biden charged with taking documents?

There is nothing in that law stating that it's forgiven if you give them back is there?

Why wasn't Pence charged as well? Intent, my dear Natasha, intent. Both Pence and Biden returned all materials when discovered. Your Tangerine Toadstool, otoh, kept them, showed them off to unauthorized persons, bragged about having them, ordered staff to move them around and hide them from his own lawyers, and had to have his home raided to retrieve them.

Again, you'd think that Putin's billions could buy better agents.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

That doesn't count. Biden is a Democrat.

And Pence is a Republican. Your point?

 

[QP!]

Then why wasn't Biden charged with taking documents?

We have discussed this before and i explained to you, you need to get someone with a grade 3 education to read to you and explain things already asked and answered.

Trump was not charged for one single gov't doc that he RETURNED in the 18 months he was asked by NARA and returned those docs.

Even today none of Trumps charges are for any of those returned doc's despite them being gov't docs.

Pence and Biden got the same treatment as Trump (call it the Trump precedent) on all the doc's they returned too.

All 3 treated the same.

Now if Pence or Biden is found to have hidden docs and they get found and taken by the FBI, then we would expect more equal treatment and for them too to be charged.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Were they classified under the law?

The law says no.

The law doesn't care if they were classified or not. The Presidential records act defines any document created for the President or given to the President by any agency as government property. The law states the President can keep personal records but government records are to be turned over to the National Archives.

The definitions are in the law.
https://www.archives.gov/about/laws/presidential-records.html

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of the President’s staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

The law then designates who owns the Presidential records.

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

In case links are too hard for you, here is the laws definition of a personal record which the President is allowed to keep when he leaves office.

(3) The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes--

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

Clinton's private conversations with someone writing a book are personal.
A letter from a foreign leader is not personal. War plans from the Pentagon are not personal.

 

[QP!]

Breaking the law is breaking the law.

You can't make exceptions for certain individuals.

If you try to nail Trump on this then Biden will be nailed on this, as will Pence, Obama and every other living president who left with documents.

You can't single out Trump.

No it is not and never has been that way.

Sorry but idiots like you do not get to declare 'cooperation is meaningless and we must treat everyone the same based on the law they break only without consideration of cooperation'.

The entire history of US law and world law has ALWAYS put value on cooperation as cooperation helps the system not get overwhelmed. People cooperating is a good thing. If Prosecutors could not consider cooperation then every charge would have to go to court as no person would have any incentive to do anything but fight to the end.

So once again what you say is stupid and foundationless.