"No such law exists"

[QP!]

The law doesn't care if they were classified or not. The Presidential records act defines any document created for the President or given to the President by any agency as government property. The law states the President can keep personal records but government records are to be turned over to the National Archives.

The definitions are in the law.
https://www.archives.gov/about/laws/presidential-records.html



The law then designates who owns the Presidential records.


In case links are too hard for you, here is the laws definition of a personal record which the President is allowed to keep when he leaves office.

Clinton's private conversations with someone writing a book are personal.
A letter from a foreign leader is not personal. War plans from the Pentagon are not personal.

Good post.

Tinker won't read and if she does she is incapable of understanding it, if written above a Grade 3 level.

Before the day is out she will claim the opposite of what you cite here in the law and say it as fact.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Then why wasn't Biden charged with taking documents?

Same reason as Pence; they returned them when asked.

The fact you can't comprehend this difference is 1) a reason why I suspect you don't speak English as a first language and 2) why I'm curious about your inability to understand American law.

 

[QP!]

Same reason as Pence; they returned them when asked.

The fact you can't comprehend this difference is 1) a reason why I suspect you don't speak English as a first language and 2) why I'm curious about your inability to understand American law.

And same reason as Trump.

Trump was not charged with the possession of a single document he gave back.

The Trump precedent is 'give them back and no charges', that both Pence and Biden then followed to get the same treatment.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

He had some to begin with?

LOL Yes, he did, but now his skin is so thin, he triggers at the slightest touch.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

And same reason as Trump.

Trump was not charged with the possession of a single document he gave back.

The Trump precedent is 'give them back and no charges', that both Pence and Biden then followed to get the same treatment.

An excellent point. It's the withholding that is the crime.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Some happy breaking news:

Donald Trump says he’s a target of special counsel’s criminal probe into 2020 election aftermath

The irony being that he commits crimes then whines about being prosecuted for them since he believes he's above the law.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Breaking the law is breaking the law.

You can't make exceptions for certain individuals.

If you try to nail Trump on this then Biden will be nailed on this, as will Pence, Obama and every other living president who left with documents.

You can't single out Trump.

When the law requires intent or willful action, then the only person that broke the law is the one that had intention. Anyone that did not know they had documents could not have willful action or intent.

The Presidential Records Act isn't a criminal statute. It defines ownership of documents and how they are supposed to be archived.
By not returning documents when they were subpoenaed Trump committed obstruction. A subpoena doesn't care who owns the documents. It requires compliance or it is a crime.
By retaining documents concerning national intelligence and hiding them so they wouldn't be turned over for a subpoena Trump proved the willful intent of keeping National security documents and not turning them over to their rightful owner.

If Trump had turned over the documents when he was asked to do so, he would not have been charged with a crime. Trump's actions in hiding the documents and failing to turn them over are the crime.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Same reason as Pence; they returned them when asked.

The fact you can't comprehend this difference is 1) a reason why I suspect you don't speak English as a first language and 2) why I'm curious about your inability to understand American law.

If you rob a bank and give the money back they don't drop charges.

The law is the law.

Taking documents is against the law, if they seize the documents after that you are still accountable for breaking the law.

Yes or no?

Is there anything in the law that states that if you give them back you are not accountable for breaking the law?

 

[Tinkerpeach]

No it is not and never has been that way.

Sorry but idiots like you do not get to declare 'cooperation is meaningless and we must treat everyone the same based on the law they break only without consideration of cooperation'.

The entire history of US law and world law has ALWAYS put value on cooperation as cooperation helps the system not get overwhelmed. People cooperating is a good thing. If Prosecutors could not consider cooperation then every charge would have to go to court as no person would have any incentive to do anything but fight to the end.

So once again what you say is stupid and foundationless.

So you are saying the law applies to people differently?

Where in any law does it say you will be exonerated if you cooperate?

I am not aware of one.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

We have discussed this before and i explained to you, you need to get someone with a grade 3 education to read to you and explain things already asked and answered.

Trump was not charged for one single gov't doc that he RETURNED in the 18 months he was asked by NARA and returned those docs.

Even today none of Trumps charges are for any of those returned doc's despite them being gov't docs.

Pence and Biden got the same treatment as Trump (call it the Trump precedent) on all the doc's they returned too.

All 3 treated the same.

Now if Pence or Biden is found to have hidden docs and they get found and taken by the FBI, then we would expect more equal treatment and for them too to be charged.

He must not hidden them that well if he was showing them off.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

You are wrong, as always. Even your own #TangerineToddler told unauthorized persons, as he showed them classified documents, that they were still classified. Ask Vlad to reassign you to the dezinformatsiya bot farm cafeteria. You suck at this.

Doesn't matter what he said, it matters what the law says.

I can say I have a secret government document but that doesn't make it true.

 

[QP!]

If you rob a bank and give the money back they don't drop charges.

The law is the law.

Taking documents is against the law, if they seize the documents after that you are still accountable for breaking the law.

Yes or no?

Is there anything in the law that states that if you give them back you are not accountable for breaking the law?

No.

You can repeating the same stupidity but it does not make it less stupid.

Violent crime (robbing a bank) and white collar crime (mishandling documents) are not treated the same whether you like that or not.


Trump was not charged with taking any of the documents he voluntarily returned and if you are correct he would have been.

The established precedent is

Part 1 - 'return the doc's and no charges',

Part 2 - 'do not return them and obstruct and lie under oath and get charged'.

Trump was not charged for his role in Part 1 and Pence and Biden followed that precedent and also were not charged. Thus equal treatment for all.

Trump was charged for Part 2, which neither Pence nor Biden did , thus why Trump alone is charged.

 

[QP!]

So you are saying the law applies to people differently?

More stupidity from you.

i am saying the law is applied consistently. See the above post for how consistent it is.

Where in any law does it say you will be exonerated if you cooperate?

Where did anyone say 'you would exonerated if you cooperate'?

How about you be less stupid and do not make up lies and instead address what people said.

What i have said, which is fact, is the entire history of the law both in America and world wide, is that 'cooperation is valued by Prosecutors and those who cooperate can and do generally get better treatment in prosecution then those who fight and resist. Many can get immunity deals for cooperation despite being involved in the same crimes. Judges will often give lighter sentences to those who cooperated then those who did not for the same crimes.


I get that in your stupidity you know nothing of this history but it exists and is fact. You thinking 'cooperation should not matter. They all should get charged and sentences equally' is just your stupidity.

I am not aware of one.

You are not aware of the droll on your chin as you are a idiot.




A

 

[QP!]

He must not hidden them that well if he was showing them off.

He was showing them off to people close to him, outside the public eye, or so he thought.

Stupid him though as he let the person record the audio of him showing them off.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

More stupidity from you.

i am saying the law is applied consistently. See the above post for how consistent it is.




Where did anyone say 'you would exonerated if you cooperate'?

How about you be less stupid and do not make up lies and instead address what people said.

What i have said, which is fact, is the entire history of the law both in America and world wide, is that 'cooperation is valued by Prosecutors and those who cooperate can and do generally get better treatment in prosecution then those who fight and resist. Many can get immunity deals for cooperation despite being involved in the same crimes. Judges will often give lighter sentences to those who cooperated then those who did not for the same crimes.


I get that in your stupidity you know nothing of this history but it exists and is fact. You thinking 'cooperation should not matter. They all should get charged and sentences equally' is just your stupidity.




You are not aware of the droll on your chin as you are a idiot.




A

They may get lighter sentences if they cooperate but why was Biden not even charged for breaking the law and Trump was?

How is that fair?

Do you agree that Biden broke the exact same law that Trump did?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

If you rob a bank and give the money back they don't drop charges.

The law is the law.

Taking documents is against the law, if they seize the documents after that you are still accountable for breaking the law.

Yes or no?

Is there anything in the law that states that if you give them back you are not accountable for breaking the law?

Correct. So why isn't Pence charged?

Yes. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems Pence should have been charged according to your logic.

Not to my knowledge, so why is Pence being given a pass?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

They may get lighter sentences if they cooperate but why was Biden not even charged for breaking the law and Trump was?

How is that fair?

Do you agree that Biden broke the exact same law that Trump did?

There's that "english as a second language" problem again. LOL

Why is Pence being given a pass?

 

[Tinkerpeach]

No.

You can repeating the same stupidity but it does not make it less stupid.

Violent crime (robbing a bank) and white collar crime (mishandling documents) are not treated the same whether you like that or not.


Trump was not charged with taking any of the documents he voluntarily returned and if you are correct he would have been.

The established precedent is

Part 1 - 'return the doc's and no charges',

Part 2 - 'do not return them and obstruct and lie under oath and get charged'.

Trump was not charged for his role in Part 1 and Pence and Biden followed that precedent and also were not charged. Thus equal treatment for all.

Trump was charged for Part 2, which neither Pence nor Biden did , thus why Trump alone is charged.

The actual law states that a president or VP cannot take documents when they leave office.

That is a crime.

Both Trump and Biden are guilty of this.

The law says nothing about returning them.

So if you charge one then you have to charge the other.

It doesn't matter if anything was hidden or not.

So why was Trump charged and not Biden?

 

[Tinkerpeach]

There's that "english as a second language" problem again. LOL

Why is Pence being given a pass?

He shouldn't be either.

Nor Obama nor Bush who all did the same thing.

Only Trump is being charged.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Correct. So why isn't Pence charged?

Yes. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems Pence should have been charged according to your logic.

Not to my knowledge, so why is Pence being given a pass?

Because the DOJ is only after Trump.