Obama Begins VP Search....

[Care4all]

Yep, just as she did about Michigan and Florida counting.

She didn't give a damn about Mi and Fl until she smelled the coffee.

I believe this is untrue BAC, she was behind Florida counting from the very beginning and stood behind their delegates from their vote being seated at the convention....

There was never ANY REASON for her not to be for them counting because she ALWAYS was the front runner there even long before the primary election.

It has been Obama that has voiced NOT wanting the people of florida's votes to count, even though he did think the Floridian voters were important enough for him to break his pledge to the early 4 states about campaigning there and ran some of his National ads there in Florida BEFORE the Florida primary...thus breaking his pledge on NOT campaigning.

And before you mention the fund raisers that Clinton had in Florida, Fund raisers were permitted by the pledge and Obama himself had fund raisers in Florida BEFORE the Primary there also, in fact that is when he went outside and crossed the street and met with the Press for an impromtu little talk....again, before the Primary and perhaps breaking his pledge again on campaigning to the public because he did get some press coverage on it...

What is amazing to me is the position many Obama followers have taken on the issue of disenfranchising the citizens of Florida.

It is the exact opposite of what the Democrats took as a position in Florida, during the 2000 election. Technicalities, and bureaucracy, should NOT get in the way of Democracy, which is the voice of the people being heard....

Just because it was past the date of when the votes should have been counted, did not mean the VOTES SHOULD NOT BE COUNTED, is the position we took as a Party....every vote should count, is the position we took as a party....and SO WHAT if the rule deadlines were not being met....? Can you spell HYPOCRISY?

I would say that some "true colors: have come out in this Primary regarding the Democratic Party, and it AIN'T PRETTY....no matter how one looks at it, no matter what side is looked at....

Care

 

[blackascoal]

I believe this is untrue BAC, she was behind Florida counting from the very beginning and stood behind their delegates from their vote being seated at the convention....

There was never ANY REASON for her not to be for them counting because she ALWAYS was the front runner there even long before the primary election.

It has been Obama that has voiced NOT wanting the people of florida's votes to count, even though he did think the Floridian voters were important enough for him to break his pledge to the early 4 states about campaigning there and ran some of his National ads there in Florida BEFORE the Florida primary...thus breaking his pledge on NOT campaigning.

And before you mention the fund raisers that Clinton had in Florida, Fund raisers were permitted by the pledge and Obama himself had fund raisers in Florida BEFORE the Primary there also, in fact that is when he went outside and crossed the street and met with the Press for an impromtu little talk....again, before the Primary and perhaps breaking his pledge again on campaigning to the public because he did get some press coverage on it...

What is amazing to me is the position many Obama followers have taken on the issue of disenfranchising the citizens of Florida.

It is the exact opposite of what the Democrats took as a position in Florida, during the 2000 election. Technicalities, and bureaucracy, should NOT get in the way of Democracy, which is the voice of the people being heard....

Just because it was past the date of when the votes should have been counted, did not mean the VOTES SHOULD NOT BE COUNTED, is the position we took as a Party....every vote should count, is the position we took as a party....and SO WHAT if the rule deadlines were not being met....? Can you spell HYPOCRISY?

I would say that some "true colors: have come out in this Primary regarding the Democratic Party, and it AIN'T PRETTY....no matter how one looks at it, no matter what side is looked at....

Care

HERE .. I'll let you hear it from her own mouth.

It is disingenuous to suggest she is "standing up" for Florida and Michigan for any other reason other than she's now losing and is attempting to ONCE AGAIN move the goalposts.

"It's clear these elections they're having (Fl/Mi) aren't going to count for anything. ... Those are her words. Now she compares the problems in Fl and Mi, most of which were their own doing, to slavery, That is simply ignorant and disgusting.

The question is, can YOU spell HYPOCRISY? .. If you're going to make this argument, at least make an informed argument.

The "true colors" that have been revealed in this primary are those of the Clintons. Bill Clinton's legacy has suffered incredible damage, particularly among African-Americans, without whom he would not have been elected either time, THUS, there would be no Hillary Clinton running for president. But it isn't just African-Americans who have been awakened to the sordid machinations of the Clintons and their puppet organization, the DLC.

Has it ever occured to you why many who've been close to the Clintons for years no longer support them? Even some of their closest friends?

Have you considered how Hillary went from front-runner and assumed to be the democratic nominee to now being a pariah who is now seen as a disgusting power hungry figure with incredibly high negatives?

Have you considered for one moment why the party leaders and elders within the Democratic Party want to take another direction away from the failures of the DLC? .. and PLEASE, don't give me that crap about sexism when Hillary is getting the lion's share of white male votes. There have been some elements of sexism, but that does not explain her rapid downfall.

I'm not a democrat, but I wonder whether you care more about Hillary Clinton than you do the direction of this nation or the Democratic Party. You and other Hillary supporters can chose to stay at home or vote for McCain in the general .. but don't be surprised when Roe v Wade is overturned, Don't be surprised when America is thrust into yet another failed war and more young American men and women are sent marching off to their deaths. Don't be surprised by America's continued spiral to the bottom .. if McCain gets elected.

The good news is McCain won't be elected in spite of some of Hillary's supporters picking up their marbles and going away.

Finally, and most disgusting in my opinion, Michelle Obama is a woman, and she has two young girls. Hillary's comment about assassination was said without any thought of the pain and angst caused to this family. I ask you sincerly without branding you as anything but a sincere and honest person whom I respect .. but when you talk about women, are you only talking about white women?

Much has been revealed in this primary .. and you're right, it ain't pretty.

 

[Care4all]

It is disingenuous to suggest she is "standing up" for Florida and Michigan for any other reason other than she's now losing and is attempting to ONCE AGAIN move the goalposts.

"It's clear these elections their having (Fl/Mi) aren't going to count for anything. ... Those are her words. Now she compares the problems in Fl and Mi, most of which were their own doing, to slavery, That is simply ignorant and disgusting.

The question is, can YOU spell HYPOCRISY? .. If you're going to make this argument, at least make an informed argument.

I answered part of this below, and she has always said that the votes of the floridians and the michigan voters should count but did have to abide by the request to not campaign there by the early states, i can give you link after link from the VERY BEGINNING of the decisions of the DNC how she felt about it before the primary... They always felt the delegates of Florida and Michigan WOULD BE SEATED, because according to the rules, the committee that makes this decision on whether to seat or not....would be mostly people coming from the camp of the Presidential Nominee...THOSE ARE THE RULES....so the Presidential nominee, who Hillary though she was and would be, at that time...WAS HER. Can you understand this....? She has always thought they would be seated, at least by the Convention, because it is the people of the Presidential nominee that will have the final decision on the committee which decides...

I GUESS you did not know this and this is why you are spreading the rumors that you are spreading about Hillary not wanting the votes/delegates of florida to count?

I can't view your clip, on dial up. but just because "it has come clear...that the michigan and florida votes won't count", is NOT SAYING THAT SHE WAS AGAINST THEM BEING COUNTED, for goodness sakes you guys are something else....somethin' else i tell ya....the best Twisters yet....better than Bushites!!!! Too bad Obama has you all as his supporters is how I am feeling about now....and I am NO RADICAL, by any sorts and am as moderate as can be...but I have personally been MORE THAN INSULTED, on MANY occaisions by the Obama supporter

The "true colors" that have been revealed in this primary are those of the Clintons. Bill Clinton's legacy has suffered incredible damage, particularly among African-Americans, without whom he would not have been elected either time, THUS, there would be no Hillary Clinton running for president. But it isn't just African-Americans who have been awakened to the sordid machinations of the Clintons and their puppet organization, the DLC.

I agree Bill Clinton's comments in South Carolina, whether intentional or NOT INTENTIONAL did hurt Hillary....in this political, twist and turn till the cows come home, game.

It is ashame though, because Bill Clinton did a great deal for African Americans while President and he had more African Americans in his Cabinet at the time than any President in History, they did have his ear during his presidency and to twist and turn things NOW, just to get your candidate elected, is inexcusable imo, and a huge, huge, huge slap in the face to his presidency by you.

Has it ever occured to you why many who've been close to the Clintons for years no longer support them? Even some of their closest friends?

Have you considered how Hillary went from front-runner and assumed to be the democratic nominee to now being a pariah who is now seen as a disgusting power hungry figure with incredibly high negatives?

Have you considered for one moment why the party leaders and elders within the Democratic Party want to take another direction away from the failures of the DLC? .. and PLEASE, don't give me that crap about sexism when Hillary is getting the lion's share of white male votes. There have been some elements of sexism, but that does not explain her rapid downfall.

The sexism came from the media, continually telling her or asking why she had not quit, and your side doing the same thing when Obama HAD NOT WON YET, HE STILL HASN'T WON the nomination yet.... If Hillary was in the lead and Obama slightly behind her but giving it HIS ALL, there is no way the media would have continually had story after story after atory after story for MONTHS ON END, about why he wasn't quitting yet, even if a nominee had not yet won it.... sorry, sexism was part of it, a MAJOR PART OF IT, is how I see it....this would not have been done even if it were another male candidate like Edwards, slightly trailing Obama...it would have been about issues and what made the candidates different but NOT ABOUT why hasn't edwards drop out, shouldn't edwards drop out and why is edwards still in and shouldn't edwards leave now and ALL THAT SHIT.

I'm not a democrat, but I wonder whether you care more about Hillary Clinton than you do the direction of this nation or the Democratic Party. You and other Hillary supporters can chose to stay at home or vote for McCain in the general .. but don't be surprised when Roe v Wade is overturned, Don't be surprised when America is thrust into yet another failed war and more young American men and women are sent marching off to their deaths. Don't be surprised by America's continued spiral to the bottom .. if McCain gets elected.

I'm really not in to FEAR MONGERING Bac....McCain won't get Roe v wade over turned for goodness sakes...geez louise kiddo...you are a Bushite if i ever heard a Bushite politiking for his man...sheesh! and you complain about Hillary's 3 am ad? hahahahahahaha!

The majority Democratic Senate will have to approve any new Supreme Court Justices appointed by the President and you can be certain they will have THAT particular issue covered.....you are aware that it takes the Consent of the Senate to get a new justice in?

The good news is McCain won't be elected in spite of some of Hillary's supporters picking up their marbles and going away.

I wouldn't be so certain on that...only by default, people offended by people like you that can't stomach to vote for anyone that you all support....this is how visceral an issue you, the followers and supporters have become....don't underestimate such.

Finally, and most disgusting in my opinion, Michelle Obama is a woman, and she has two young girls. Hillary's comment about assassination was said without any thought of the pain and angst caused to this family. I ask you sincerly without branding you as anything but a sincere and honest person whom I respect .. but when you talk about women, are you only talking about white women?

Much has been revealed in this primary .. and you're right, it ain't pretty.

I have never in my life, outside of Bushites, seen a more sensitive bunch of babies in my entire life....this is how i do view you...as a group...tooooo emotionally involved and making every little thing said an issue...

There was nothing wrong in what she said regarding her husband and Robert Kennedy still being in the Primary in the month of June of which he later was assasinated.

yes, YOUR SIDE has TRIED its hardest to make this ANOTHER one of your silly, immature to say the least.... attacks, just so YOU can gain a political advantage over it BAC...and to pretend this offended you is just plain ridiculous and a far reach and twist for you to make this about Hillary WISHING OR THINKING that Obama could be or should be, killed.

Shame on YOU!

Robert Kennedy Jr, the son of Robert Kennedy came out in Hillary's defense immediately and said he totally understood where she was refering to the TWO JUNE primaries where the nominee was not even picked yet or had enough votes to win the nomination....and guess what, She was correct.

I can't view the tape of Hillary because i only have dial up, so it will take quite a while before it downloads.... but if what she said is it is clear that these Florida elections are not going to count.....where did she say this, what was the circumstance? That could have just been a fact that she was stating at the time she was saying it.... CONTEXT DOES MATTER, you know....?

And even so, saying that it is clear that they are not going to count, is just stating a fact, not stating her position on it....for goodness sakes?

I don't get you guys ONE ITTY BITTY BIT....Obama, he's an alright guy....but YOU....you are just vicious, BITTER people to me....and to alot of Democrats and your candidate just may lose the election, because OF YOU...his "follower".... and race won't be the reason, but viscious, vile, twist and turning, race calling followers, will be....mark my words....UNLESS, you let Hillary campaign like crazy FOR Obama...BUT NOOOOOOOOOO.....you have tried nothing but to scorn her....well you, and others like you, have done a huge disservice to your Party and this race between Obama and McCain, is actually going to be a race, and NOT the blowout one would expect....

Now, I am NOT a supporter of Hillary taking a vp slot, but I certainly know enough about politics to KNOW that YOU AND OBAMA are going to need her like you never believed, to get people to vote for Obama, who Obama has INTENTIONALLY IGNORED....I would not continue to bite off your nose, inspite of your face.....or the Democrats, will win congress seats, but the presidency will be in question....imho....not so much with Dems voting for MCCain, cuz i can't see that, but for Dems not going to the poll to vote for Obama, I can see that....if this meaness, cockyness, and arrogance on your side continues BAC.

Care

P.S. CAN ANY Obama supporter, including yourself, tell me what CHANGE Obama is about...how HE IS NOT AN INSIDER, with the Kennedys and the Kerry's and the Pelosi's and the Dean's all supporting him? All the insiders?

What a joke!

 

[blackascoal]

I have never in my life, outside of Bushites, seen a more sensitive bunch of babies in my entire life....this is how i do view you...as a group...tooooo emotionally involved and making every little thing said an issue...

There was nothing wrong in what she said regarding her husband and Robert Kennedy still being in the Primary in the month of June of which he later was assasinated.

yes, YOUR SIDE has TRIED its hardest to make this ANOTHER one of your silly, immature to say the least.... attacks, just so YOU can gain a political advantage over it BAC...and to pretend this offended you is just plain ridiculous and a far reach and twist for you to make this about Hillary WISHING OR THINKING that Obama could be or should be, killed.

Shame on YOU!

Robert Kennedy Jr, the son of Robert Kennedy came out in Hillary's defense immediately and said he totally understood where she was refering to the TWO JUNE primaries where the nominee was not even picked yet or had enough votes to win the nomination....and guess what, She was correct.

I can't view the tape of Hillary because i only have dial up, so it will take quite a while before it downloads.... but if what she said is it is clear that these Florida elections are not going to count.....where did she say this, what was the circumstance? That could have just been a fact that she was stating at the time she was saying it.... CONTEXT DOES MATTER, you know....?

And even so, saying that it is clear that they are not going to count, is just stating a fact, not stating her position on it....for goodness sakes?

I don't get you guys ONE ITTY BITTY BIT....Obama, he's an alright guy....but YOU....you are just vicious, BITTER people to me....and to alot of Democrats and your candidate just may lose the election, because OF YOU...his "follower".... and race won't be the reason, but viscious, vile, twist and turning, race calling followers, will be....mark my words....UNLESS, you let Hillary campaign like crazy FOR Obama...BUT NOOOOOOOOOO.....you have tried nothing but to scorn her....well you, and others like you, have done a huge disservice to your Party and this race between Obama and McCain, is actually going to be a race, and NOT the blowout one would expect....

Now, I am NOT a supporter of Hillary taking a vp slot, but I certainly know enough about politics to KNOW that YOU AND OBAMA are going to need her like you never believed, to get people to vote for Obama, who Obama has INTENTIONALLY IGNORED....I would not continue to bite off your nose, inspite of your face.....or the Democrats, will win congress seats, but the presidency will be in question....imho....not so much with Dems voting for MCCain, cuz i can't see that, but for Dems not going to the poll to vote for Obama, I can see that....if this meaness, cockyness, and arrogance on your side continues BAC.

Care

PS CAN ANY Obama supporter, including yourself, tell me what CHANGE Obama is about...how HE IS NOT AN INSIDER, with the Kennedys and the Kerry's and the Pelosi's and the Dean's all supporting him? All the insiders?

What a joke!

I can see there's no point carrying this conversation any further with you .. we've both said what we've had to say .. but there are more than a few inaccuracies in your post that demonstrate a serious lack of political acumen .. and that I don't really care to waste time refuting or exposing.

Ther good news is that Hillary will not be the nominee, nor will she be the VP choice in spite of your whining and in spite of your inability to face this reality.

Blame her failures on Obama and his supporters. Don't worry, I didn't noticed that you ran away from answering why even some of Clinton's friends, former Cabinet members, associates, and even the majority of her fellow senators aren't supporting her .. including many women. I didn't notice.

It was Obama who convinced Hillary to claim all the lies she's been caught in.

I most certainly could explain in detail what "change" Obama is about .. but I'm not too sure you could interpret it with a dial-up mind, as you couldn't even intrepret what Hillary said from her own mouth.

And that "Bill Clinton did a great deal for African Americans" bullshit .. Yep, he sure did, including being the greatest incarceration president in American history as his Injustice Department enacted racist and archaic laws that still destructively impact the balck community today, and has made this nation into the greatest prison nation on earth.

Thanks Bill.

But I don't expect you to have any understanding of that .. you're in this for white women.

Howver, please and by all means, whine, cry, throw a hissy fit, and take your marbles home .. go vote for McCain if you choose.

It doesn't matter.

And that's the really good news.

 

[blackascoal]

Just for the giggles ... on Hillary's excuses for her "misspoken remark .. which she had to apologize for ...

On her husband not winnning his primary until June ..

Garbage.

In 1968 the presidential primaries started in March, and in his first presidential race, Bill Clinton had effectively won the nomination in April.

On in case Obama, RFK-like gets assassinated ...

Garbage.

She could suspend her campaign. Is there any question that she would become the nominee if that happened?

Oh yeah .. On ending this primary early ... Hillary predicted that this would be over by Feb 5.

Oooppps.

Just for the giggles ...

 

[Cancel7]

I have never in my life, outside of Bushites, seen a more sensitive bunch of babies in my entire life....this is how i do view you...as a group...tooooo emotionally involved and making every little thing said an issue...

There was nothing wrong in what she said regarding her husband and Robert Kennedy still being in the Primary in the month of June of which he later was assasinated.

yes, YOUR SIDE has TRIED its hardest to make this ANOTHER one of your silly, immature to say the least.... attacks, just so YOU can gain a political advantage over it BAC...and to pretend this offended you is just plain ridiculous and a far reach and twist for you to make this about Hillary WISHING OR THINKING that Obama could be or should be, killed.

Shame on YOU!

Robert Kennedy Jr, the son of Robert Kennedy came out in Hillary's defense immediately and said he totally understood where she was refering to the TWO JUNE primaries where the nominee was not even picked yet or had enough votes to win the nomination....and guess what, She was correct.

I can't view the tape of Hillary because i only have dial up, so it will take quite a while before it downloads.... but if what she said is it is clear that these Florida elections are not going to count.....where did she say this, what was the circumstance? That could have just been a fact that she was stating at the time she was saying it.... CONTEXT DOES MATTER, you know....?

And even so, saying that it is clear that they are not going to count, is just stating a fact, not stating her position on it....for goodness sakes?

I don't get you guys ONE ITTY BITTY BIT....Obama, he's an alright guy....but YOU....you are just vicious, BITTER people to me....and to alot of Democrats and your candidate just may lose the election, because OF YOU...his "follower".... and race won't be the reason, but viscious, vile, twist and turning, race calling followers, will be....mark my words....UNLESS, you let Hillary campaign like crazy FOR Obama...BUT NOOOOOOOOOO.....you have tried nothing but to scorn her....well you, and others like you, have done a huge disservice to your Party and this race between Obama and McCain, is actually going to be a race, and NOT the blowout one would expect....

Now, I am NOT a supporter of Hillary taking a vp slot, but I certainly know enough about politics to KNOW that YOU AND OBAMA are going to need her like you never believed, to get people to vote for Obama, who Obama has INTENTIONALLY IGNORED....I would not continue to bite off your nose, inspite of your face.....or the Democrats, will win congress seats, but the presidency will be in question....imho....not so much with Dems voting for MCCain, cuz i can't see that, but for Dems not going to the poll to vote for Obama, I can see that....if this meaness, cockyness, and arrogance on your side continues BAC.

Care

P.S. CAN ANY Obama supporter, including yourself, tell me what CHANGE Obama is about...how HE IS NOT AN INSIDER, with the Kennedys and the Kerry's and the Pelosi's and the Dean's all supporting him? All the insiders?

What a joke!

This race is making me crazy. I find myself fighting both sides of various hillary questions. A good example is her Bobby Kennedy remark. My friend Loretta insisted to me that she didn't even see how it could have been taken the way many took it. And so I started arguing with her. Then when I see the hysterical reaction on the internet, "Hillary - Assassin!" I take the opposite view. It's tearing me in two.

Did Hillary mean to invoke the spectre of assassination? Is she hoping that Obama is going to be killed? Was she attempting to dog whistle some crazy?

After feeling as if I was on both sides of this, I realized that the answer is; nobody knows. People are pretending as if they know. But nobody knows. Here is what seems most reasonable to me.

Mitt Romney suspended his campaign rather than ending it. John McCain could die, or have a catastrophic medical event leading to incapictation. Does Mitt Romney hope that happens? Anyone who believes that someone that close to holding the most powerful position in the world, their life's dream, would scruple over wishing something that far more ordinary men wish for everyday, for far more mundane reasons, is in my opinion, naive. Of course he hopes McCain drops dead. Stop.

Does Hillary, who was this close to becoming the first woman president of the united states of america, and thus obtaining the only kind of immortality we humans can hope to achieve, hope that Obama catches a bullet or drops dead of a sudden heart attack? Yes.

So?

Would Hillary Clinton want to incite someone to kill him? That's another question all together, and nobody knows. Is Hillary Clinton smart enough to know that any suggestion that she was hoping for this outcome woud be political suicide? You bet.

Therefore, she was misunderstood.

My personal feeling is that what you are seeing here is pure exhaustion. And what is telling out is that youth matters. By the end of this, McCain is going to be a babbling, incoherent, drooling senior citizen, effectively unelectable. Hillary is showing her age too, because age and exhaustion - not a good combination.

Obama has made the fewest verbal gaffes. And that he is the youngest, by far, is no coincidence. This is a grueling, grueling thing, to obtain the Presidency.

 

[Cancel7]

Just for the giggles ... on Hillary's excuses for her "misspoken remark .. which she had to apologize for ...

On her husband not winnning his primary until June ..

Garbage.

In 1968 the presidential primaries started in March, and in his first presidential race, Bill Clinton had effectively won the nomination in April.

On in case Obama, RFK-like gets assassinated ...

Garbage.

She could suspend her campaign. Is there any question that she would become the nominee if that happened?

Oh yeah .. On ending this primary early ... Hillary predicted that this would be over by Feb 5.

Oooppps.

Just for the giggles ...

That's right bac. That's why I think this is even further evidence that she did not mean those words the way they were taken.

 

[Cancel7]

I can see there's no point carrying this conversation any further with you .. we've both said what we've had to say .. but there are more than a few inaccuracies in your post that demonstrate a serious lack of political acumen .. and that I don't really care to waste time refuting or exposing.

Ther good news is that Hillary will not be the nominee, nor will she be the VP choice in spite of your whining and in spite of your inability to face this reality.

Blame her failures on Obama and his supporters. Don't worry, I didn't noticed that you ran away from answering why even some of Clinton's friends, former Cabinet members, associates, and even the majority of her fellow senators aren't supporting her .. including many women. I didn't notice.

It was Obama who convinced Hillary to claim all the lies she's been caught in.

I most certainly could explain in detail what "change" Obama is about .. but I'm not too sure you could interpret it with a dial-up mind, as you couldn't even intrepret what Hillary said from her own mouth.

And that "Bill Clinton did a great deal for African Americans" bullshit .. Yep, he sure did, including being the greatest incarceration president in American history as his Injustice Department enacted racist and archaic laws that still destructively impact the balck community today, and has made this nation into the greatest prison nation on earth.

Thanks Bill.

But I don't expect you to have any understanding of that .. you're in this for white women.

Howver, please and by all means, whine, cry, throw a hissy fit, and take your marbles home .. go vote for McCain if you choose.

It doesn't matter.

And that's the really good news.

I don't think that Care is even particularly a Hillary-backer, and I know she's not voting for John McCain bac. She's simply stating what is a fact; that many women are having problems with this race.

I want to harken back to the beginning of this race, long before Edwards dropped out. I said, right here, that if we were to use history as our guide, we would have a black male president before having a woman president of any color. I brought up Bell Hooks' argument that sexism is a stronger force in our society, and in our history, than racism. So I am not surprised by this outcome.

This was a very close race. I think Hillary should have dropped out once the math turned against her. But, it's close. Others, have a different opinion of what she should do.

I don't think that pretending that Obama is getting 98 percent of the black vote is about what's best for America and not at all about the excitement blacks feel about the first black President, is really playing with all our cards showing.

Of course it is exciting. Of course, the morning after a black man is elected President of the United States, everything changes in the eyes of every black child who wakes up in this country.

And so, would have the first woman president have changed everything.

I don't think that acknowledging this and acknowledging that sexism has been a force in this election, is whining. Now I personally believe that Hillary Clinton will not gain the nomination for one reason: The Iraq war resolution. She wasn't walking away from that, period. I don't think that sexism played the deciding roll, but it reared its head.

 

[Annie]

I'm not nearly as sensitive as Darla. I'm not going crazy. All three suck to varying degrees, it truly is unfortunate as it's been a long time since we've really needed a great CIC, but we're not going to get one, even if McCain.

Sorry, I don't buy that any wish the other dead. Bad analogies happen, but that's all it was.

 

[Cypress]

I have never in my life, outside of Bushites, seen a more sensitive bunch of babies in my entire life....this is how i do view you...as a group...tooooo emotionally involved and making every little thing said an issue...

There was nothing wrong in what she said regarding her husband and Robert Kennedy still being in the Primary in the month of June of which he later was assasinated.

yes, YOUR SIDE has TRIED its hardest to make this ANOTHER one of your silly, immature to say the least.... attacks, just so YOU can gain a political advantage over it BAC...and to pretend this offended you is just plain ridiculous and a far reach and twist for you to make this about Hillary WISHING OR THINKING that Obama could be or should be, killed.

Shame on YOU!

Robert Kennedy Jr, the son of Robert Kennedy came out in Hillary's defense immediately and said he totally understood where she was refering to the TWO JUNE primaries where the nominee was not even picked yet or had enough votes to win the nomination....and guess what, She was correct.

I can't view the tape of Hillary because i only have dial up, so it will take quite a while before it downloads.... but if what she said is it is clear that these Florida elections are not going to count.....where did she say this, what was the circumstance? That could have just been a fact that she was stating at the time she was saying it.... CONTEXT DOES MATTER, you know....?

And even so, saying that it is clear that they are not going to count, is just stating a fact, not stating her position on it....for goodness sakes?

I don't get you guys ONE ITTY BITTY BIT....Obama, he's an alright guy....but YOU....you are just vicious, BITTER people to me....and to alot of Democrats and your candidate just may lose the election, because OF YOU...his "follower".... and race won't be the reason, but viscious, vile, twist and turning, race calling followers, will be....mark my words....UNLESS, you let Hillary campaign like crazy FOR Obama...BUT NOOOOOOOOOO.....you have tried nothing but to scorn her....well you, and others like you, have done a huge disservice to your Party and this race between Obama and McCain, is actually going to be a race, and NOT the blowout one would expect....

Now, I am NOT a supporter of Hillary taking a vp slot, but I certainly know enough about politics to KNOW that YOU AND OBAMA are going to need her like you never believed, to get people to vote for Obama, who Obama has INTENTIONALLY IGNORED....I would not continue to bite off your nose, inspite of your face.....or the Democrats, will win congress seats, but the presidency will be in question....imho....not so much with Dems voting for MCCain, cuz i can't see that, but for Dems not going to the poll to vote for Obama, I can see that....if this meaness, cockyness, and arrogance on your side continues BAC.

Care

P.S. CAN ANY Obama supporter, including yourself, tell me what CHANGE Obama is about...how HE IS NOT AN INSIDER, with the Kennedys and the Kerry's and the Pelosi's and the Dean's all supporting him? All the insiders?

What a joke!

Care, I'm dissapointed with all the over the top Hillary versus Obama bashing that goes on. So, I know what you're saying. Neither Hillary nor Obama were my favored choices, so I've been able to maintain a little neutrality. I think you're right, that the dogpiles on Clinton have sometimes been over the top, and uncalled for. I also think the Clinton's play dirty and hard. I always knew that about them. A lot of politicians play dirty and hard. I wish every one campaigned like Bernie Sanders, or Russ Feingold, but it ain't gonna happen.

I wasn't demanding that Clinton drop out three months ago. Its' her right to stay in a competitive race. I really wish she hadn't engaged in some of the tactics she did. Some of them were over the top. That's not to say Obama hasn't played hard. But, I really hated the fear mongering, and the three o'clock in the morning ads she ran. It was much too Rovian for me. But, it didn't make me hate her guts. She played dirty. Oh well. That's what the Clinton's have always done. Its probably the reason they kicked republicans asses. I get pissed of at her. I get pissed at her war resolution vote. I get pissed at the way it took four years for her to admit her vote was wrong. I get pissed at some of her campaign tactics. I get pissed that she might be hurting democratic prospects in the Fall. But, when you get right down to it, I don't think she's any worse of a Democratic Senator than Joe Biden or Diane Fienstein. I'm not going to spend my life hating her guts. I don't know if it's the best idea to have her on the VP slot. I don't even know if she'd want it. I would think being a senator is better than being VP.

 

[NOVA]

Its was always said that someone running for Pres. should pick a VP that "balances" the ticket........so I figure Obama might be talking to David Duke about the VP spot.........

 

[Damocles]

I'm not nearly as sensitive as Darla. I'm not going crazy. All three suck to varying degrees, it truly is unfortunate as it's been a long time since we've really needed a great CIC, but we're not going to get one, even if McCain.

Sorry, I don't buy that any wish the other dead. Bad analogies happen, but that's all it was.

QFT, It is exaggeration for campaign. It is why I say that as soon as it is over, everybody is going to remember how great they think Hillbilly really is. News stories are going to go on and on waxing all rhapsodic about the fountain of support Hillbilly is giving to Obama, about the "healing" they have undergone...

 

[Care4all]

I can see there's no point carrying this conversation any further with you .. we've both said what we've had to say .. but there are more than a few inaccuracies in your post that demonstrate a serious lack of political acumen .. and that I don't really care to waste time refuting or exposing.

Ther good news is that Hillary will not be the nominee, nor will she be the VP choice in spite of your whining and in spite of your inability to face this reality.

Blame her failures on Obama and his supporters. Don't worry, I didn't noticed that you ran away from answering why even some of Clinton's friends, former Cabinet members, associates, and even the majority of her fellow senators aren't supporting her .. including many women. I didn't notice.

It was Obama who convinced Hillary to claim all the lies she's been caught in.

I most certainly could explain in detail what "change" Obama is about .. but I'm not too sure you could interpret it with a dial-up mind, as you couldn't even intrepret what Hillary said from her own mouth.

And that "Bill Clinton did a great deal for African Americans" bullshit .. Yep, he sure did, including being the greatest incarceration president in American history as his Injustice Department enacted racist and archaic laws that still destructively impact the balck community today, and has made this nation into the greatest prison nation on earth.

Thanks Bill.

But I don't expect you to have any understanding of that .. you're in this for white women.

Howver, please and by all means, whine, cry, throw a hissy fit, and take your marbles home .. go vote for McCain if you choose.

It doesn't matter.

And that's the really good news.

that's fine, don't "waste your time" with me.....I'm just a solid Democratic voter that you can throw out with the Bath Water.....hugs and kisses, and can you say...

President McCain?

I wonder if that was not your goal all along?

Care

 

[Care4all]

Care, I'm dissapointed with all the over the top Hillary versus Obama bashing that goes on. So, I know what you're saying. Neither Hillary nor Obama were my favored choices, so I've been able to maintain a little neutrality. I think you're right, that the dogpiles on Clinton have sometimes been over the top, and uncalled for. I also think the Clinton's play dirty and hard. I always knew that about them. A lot of politicians play dirty and hard. I wish every one campaigned like Bernie Sanders, or Russ Feingold, but it ain't gonna happen.

I wasn't demanding that Clinton drop out three months ago. Its' her right to stay in a competitive race. I really wish she hadn't engaged in some of the tactics she did. Some of them were over the top. That's not to say Obama hasn't played hard. But, I really hated the fear mongering, and the three o'clock in the morning ads she ran. It was much too Rovian for me. But, it didn't make me hate her guts. She played dirty. Oh well. That's what the Clinton's have always done. Its probably the reason they kicked republicans asses. I get pissed of at her. I get pissed at her war resolution vote. I get pissed at the way it took four years for her to admit her vote was wrong. I get pissed at some of her campaign tactics. I get pissed that she might be hurting democratic prospects in the Fall. But, when you get right down to it, I don't think she's any worse of a Democratic Senator than Joe Biden or Diane Fienstein. I'm not going to spend my life hating her guts. I don't know if it's the best idea to have her on the VP slot. I don't even know if she'd want it. I would think being a senator is better than being VP.

I was not an Obama supporter nor a Hillary supporter when this race began.

I was a Gore supporter, then a biden supporter then Edwards wormed in there somewhere.....

After my favs were no longer there I started to pay attention...still not "picking" sides and let the race go on...

I then, through the debates, thought that Hillary was the Stronger candidate...but was mesmerized by Obama and his charm.

I did not become a Hillary supporter until the Obama camp started bashing her left and right....and the media decided for all of us, that Obama would be the winner of this primary, LONG BEFORE she could have been counted OUT....

Also, as an adult voter, I thought all of this Hope and change CRAP was just that, crap...and simply NOT TRUE, because it was apparent that Obama WAS THE INSIDER and NOT Hillary as all thought.... He has the Kennedy family, Kerry, Dean, all the insiders of the political Democratic Arena, on his side...it ain't hillary that is the insider, but Obama....and as I have asked many times, WHAT IS IT that makes Obama the Candidate of Change?

So all that silly mumbo jumbo to get the youth vote on board, is hollow to me...I just don't see it.... I see the same old, same old, with Obama and Hillary....neither can hold the high ground....and to be "fooled" in to thinking something will really change with Obama as the candidate verses Hillary as the Candidate, is setting oneself up for a HUGE disappointment in my humble opinion.

Care

 

[Cancel7]

QFT, It is exaggeration for campaign. It is why I say that as soon as it is over, everybody is going to remember how great they think Hillbilly really is. News stories are going to go on and on waxing all rhapsodic about the fountain of support Hillbilly is giving to Obama, about the "healing" they have undergone...

And a healing within the democratic base is the one thing you dread. For without the split between black men and white women, so personified by Care and Bac on this very thread, you and your party are dead meat, destined to wander in the wilderness for a generation.

 

[Cancel7]

I was not an Obama supporter nor a Hillary supporter when this race began.

I was a Gore supporter, then a biden supporter then Edwards wormed in there somewhere.....

After my favs were no longer there I started to pay attention...still not "picking" sides and let the race go on...

I then, through the debates, thought that Hillary was the Stronger candidate...but was mesmerized by Obama and his charm.

I did not become a Hillary supporter until the Obama camp started bashing her left and right....and the media decided for all of us, that Obama would be the winner of this primary, LONG BEFORE she could have been counted OUT....

Also, as an adult voter, I thought all of this Hope and change CRAP was just that, crap...and simply NOT TRUE, because it was apparent that Obama WAS THE INSIDER and NOT Hillary as all thought.... He has the Kennedy family, Kerry, Dean, all the insiders of the political Democratic Arena, on his side...it ain't hillary that is the insider, but Obama....and as I have asked many times, WHAT IS IT that makes Obama the Candidate of Change?

So all that silly mumbo jumbo to get the youth vote on board, is hollow to me...I just don't see it.... I see the same old, same old, with Obama and Hillary....neither can hold the high ground....and to be "fooled" in to thinking something will really change with Obama as the candidate verses Hillary as the Candidate, is setting oneself up for a HUGE disappointment in my humble opinion.

Care

I was for Gore first and foremost, and Edwards second. Frankly, I would still take either of them as the candidate over either Hillary or Obama. But, once it became apparent it wasnt going to be Gore or Edwards, I ended up moving to Obama as my "preference", though I would call it settling.

The reason I did is because of things like the cluster bomb vote. Senate Amendment 4882, which would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas. I am betting you know what cluster bombs do, and that their main victims are children. Hillary voted against this ban. Obama did vote for it.

To me, that was even worse than voting for the Kyl-Lieberman amendment. By far, actually.

So here is what happened. Conventional wisdom said that a woman cannot become president unless she shows she can be as big a war-monger as any man. That she as a woman, will not shy away from murdering children. That she can break just as many eggs to make the American omelette. This is a national psychosis...but Hillary is responsible for these votes anyway.

It's possible that in order to win the general - which all polls seem to show as far as I know, Hillary as very strong in, stronger even than Obama in some important states - she did have to make these murderous votes. Americans like them some blood. Americans like them some tough. Americans like them some "WE'RE NUMBER ONE".

But she forgot, or Bill forgot, somebody forgot this and it was the biggest miscalculation they made, when they forgot that she HAD TO GET TO THE GENERAL FIRST. And to do that, she had to get past the democratic base, by defnition more anti-war than the general electorate. And so, she's not going to get to the general election. And that's a hard truth, but heck, some have it worse. Some lost their three-year old daughter, their 20 year old marine son, their faces, in that same war.

What alarms me is that now I see that Hillary Clinton must be demonized, she must be inhuman, we must hate her, we must renounce her, we must deny her three times! Put a stake in her heart. She's not just a politician, who like all politicians has pulled some questionable and even borderline sleazy moves. No, she is evil incarnate and must be treated that way.

This of course, if allowed, will ensure that we do not have a woman president in my lifetime.

So...fuck that.

 

[Care4all]

And a healing within the democratic base is the one thing you dread. For without the split between black men and white women, so personified by Care and Bac on this very thread, you and your party are dead meat, destined to wander in the wilderness for a generation.

if ''hillary'' were a black woman, or a black man, or a white man.....I still would think he or she, was the better, stronger candidate to run our country at this time..... her tenacity, and strength, when all is down, is what confirmed it.

so, if any other person was in her shoes, showing the same thing, i would be behind them too....male/female/white or black....just want to make that clear!



but otherwise, you pretty much have it summed up, as i see it.....and boy oh boy, we are in some trouble on the mending fences thing....moreso, than realized.

care

 

[Cancel7]

if ''hillary'' were a black woman, or a black man, or a white man.....I still would think he or she, was the better, stronger candidate to run our country at this time..... her tenacity, and strength, when all is down, is what confirmed it.

so, if any other person was in her shoes, showing the same thing, i would be behind them too....male/female/white or black....just want to make that clear!



but otherwise, you pretty much have it summed up, as i see it.....and boy oh boy, we are in some trouble on the mending fences thing....moreso, than realized.

care

Well, this has not been what I would call graceful winning Care. I've seen it all over, especially in places like the comments section at the Huffpo. Sometimes I wonder, Jesus Christ, are these republicans pretending to be male obama supporters just to enrage democratic women?

I don't know how to heal this, other than to hope that in the end, enough democratic women will look to Obama and his own words, rather than the words of some of his supporters on the internet.

You don't know how many times I've come this close to flipping my support over this shit. The only thing that stops me is that war is more harmful to women all over this world than any other single thing. I believe that Obama will be somewhat less likely to take us to war than Hillary. That's all I've got.

 

[blackascoal]

That's right bac. That's why I think this is even further evidence that she did not mean those words the way they were taken.

The reason I've gone from posting threads about her strengths to now absolutely hating her, as you know, has nothing to do with her gender. Frankly, I hate her in spite of her gender.

This wasn't the first time she'd made that exact remark and it wasn't the first time she was criticized for it. I'm willing to bet Hillary is as smart as I am and far more knowledgeable about the inner workings of the Democratic Party .. so she knows this has never been an effective or even honest defense, or historical interpretation. She said this with intent.

Wordsmithing is what the Clintons do, and they do it better than most. It has been the source of their political power. In truth, republicans have been telling the left this for years. .. Yeah, I know, but they were right. The one great pleasure the right can enjoy today is watching the Democratic Party discover the Clintons.

Was the intent of the RFK remard meant as a clarion call to would-be assassins? Who knows, .. but what is known is the Clintons are smart enough to know it might be interpreted as one. They are smart enough to know that any mention of assassination, especially in a historically distorted and ineffective excuse, would enrage the progressives within the party .. they know because they'd already been told when she made it the first time.

At the bottom of this democrats had better seriously ask themselves how did the Clintons go from half a million dollars to over a hundred million so quickly? .. and that hundred million is all we've been told about.

Democrats are waking up to what the Clintons represent, and it ain't pretty.

 

[blackascoal]

And a healing within the democratic base is the one thing you dread. For without the split between black men and white women, so personified by Care and Bac on this very thread, you and your party are dead meat, destined to wander in the wilderness for a generation.

That healing will need to be between black people, not just black men, and white women .. make that some white women.

But your point is dead on.