Obama Begins VP Search....

Desh I don’t give a shit what three old ladies in Las Vegas said about Hillary or about this race. If you want to do the Hillary pile on and help to make her the most reviled woman since Marie Antoinette, be my guest, but I won’t join and you better realize you are helping to ensure that we do not see a woman, any woman, come close to the Presidency in our lifetimes.
She lost. Try showing some fucking grace! That goes for all of you.
 
Onceler said:
That's ridiculous. It doesn't even qualify as a stretch; What I said & what you "interpreted" that I said are 2 different things entirely.

As is this:

"Who would know better than the two men who are so omniscient that anyone who believes anyone other than their choice for President, might be a better choice, is either a complete idiot, or a calculating woman who is only voting for the woman candidate because she’s a woman!"

There is nothing that I said that supports this conclusion. You have certainly made arguments here that at least SOME of Hillary's supporters vote for her because of gender identity, and seeing Obama as the candidate who took the more qualified person's job because he's a man. That's no different from saying that some Hillary supporters see the idea of the woman, and not the woman herself.

I really don't like that; your characterizations of what I wrote are reactionary & completely inaccurate. It's not even how I feel about it, and I certainly never said anything that would lead anyone to believe that I felt a certain way about ALL Hillary supporters.
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"Much of what I have heard from Hillary's supporters has to do with the IDEA of a woman, and not the woman herself."

A stretch? Sorry, no way.
 
I said much of what I heard, and it's true.

I didn't say this: ""So in the opinion of you and Onceler, there are NO female Hillary supporters who are supporting her because they really believe she is the better candidate?""

That's absolutely ridiculous. I don't know how you can arrive at that conclusion with a straight face. How did I say there are NO female Hillary supporters who are supporting her because they believe her to be the better candidate?

You've gotta do better than that. That is not what I meant at all, and it isn't what I said.
 
And yes Onceler, some women are voting for Hillary only because she’s a woman. Nobody here has denied that.
Some black people are voting for Obama only because he’s black. That is what is being denied, or I should more accurately say, being glossed over.
 
Darla said:
So in the opinion of you and Onceler, there are NO female Hillary supporters who are supporting her because they really believe she is the better candidate? Well, that’s not condescending.
You know what, let me go get some work done. I’ll come back later to see what else you and Onceler have decided women want, and women think, and how black women feel compared to how white women feel.
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That's not what was said and you are guilty of exactly what was intended by that comment.

At what point do we discuss WHY people are anti-Hillary based on her brand of politics, not because she's a woman?

Darla said:
Who would know better than the two men who are so omniscient that anyone who believes anyone other than their choice for President, might be a better choice, is either a complete idiot, or a calculating woman who is only voting for the woman candidate because she’s a woman! LOL. I have to laugh because I like you both, and if I don’t laugh I will scream, but I will tell you this, I am going to go home and give my bf a very wild night tonight, because by God, he is a rare man. A rare man. I really lucked out. So he will be thanking you guys tomorrow! LOL
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If I can inspire a night like that then I should be charging you for this. :)

Seriously, this is an unfortunate divide that ain't going away quickly. I'm as adamant about my position as you are about yours. If you think I'm tough on Hillary, you should listen to that rare woman I have at home.
 
Darla said:
And yes Onceler, some women are voting for Hillary only because she’s a woman. Nobody here has denied that.
Some black people are voting for Obama only because he’s black. That is what is being denied, or I should more accurately say, being glossed over.
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I agree with that. I would never argue that.
 
Onceler said:
I said much of what I heard, and it's true.

I didn't say this: ""So in the opinion of you and Onceler, there are NO female Hillary supporters who are supporting her because they really believe she is the better candidate?""

That's absolutely ridiculous. I don't know how you can arrive at that conclusion with a straight face. How did I say there are NO female Hillary supporters who are supporting her because they believe her to be the better candidate?

You've gotta do better than that. That is not what I meant at all, and it isn't what I said.
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That's how it looked to me. I'm sorry if I was wrong, and that's fine, but to claim that it was absurd that I concluded that, is what is the stretch Onceler.
 
Darla said:
And yes Onceler, some women are voting for Hillary only because she’s a woman. Nobody here has denied that.
Some black people are voting for Obama only because he’s black. That is what is being denied, or I should more accurately say, being glossed over.
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It's not being denied or glossed over in my opinion .. but neither defines this election. That's bullshit.
 
If I were a black man, or woman, who generally supported Democrats for office, I would definitely be voting for Obama. When all other things are the same, or as near to be almost no difference, why would I not?

I could see either a woman voting for Hillbilly or an African-American voting for Obama. Neither are voting AGAINST the other because of it. They are supporting their positions and voting for pride. I see nothing at all wrong with that.

What amazes me is the total anger that seems to come between the two.
 
Darla said:
That's how it looked to me. I'm sorry if I was wrong, and that's fine, but to claim that it was absurd that I concluded that, is what is the stretch Onceler.
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It represents outrage based on false assumptions and only adds to the divide.

How do you accuse me of sexist anything?

How is that possible?
 
Their most definitely are black people voting for obama because hes black and woman voting for Hillary because shes a woman. I don’t know how many but I would bet 10K that its pretty substantial.

I also think their are white men voting for mccain because hes a white man.

Think about the average level of intelligence we are dealing with in this country for a moment.
 
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blackascoal said:
That's not what was said and you are guilty of exactly what was intended by that comment.

At what point do we discuss WHY people are anti-Hillary based on her brand of politics, not because she's a woman?



If I can inspire a night like that then I should be charging you for this. :)

Seriously, this is an unfortunate divide that ain't going away quickly. I'm as adamant about my position as you are about yours. If you think I'm tough on Hillary, you should listen to that rare woman I have at home.
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We have discussed what is wrong with Hillary that has caused many not to support her bac. We’ve discussed it to death. I think that now that she has lost, it’s time to start talking about what we share, rather than what separates us. I don’t see the way some people are acting, as being graceful in winning. And I do think, more than you do, that Obama is going to need every vote he can get.
And as a woman, I also keep an eye towards history. If I were to sit back and allow both Hillary and her supporters to be characterized, not only does it offend me personally, but I am well aware it will keep ALL women out of the white house for at least another generation, maybe two.
I appreciate your staying very civil during this with me. These are hard things to discuss without getting all pissy, as Onceler has demonstrated. LOL. Well, that will piss him off some more, but I am just teasing, or more accurately, joking on the square as Al Franken says.
 
Chapdog said:
There most definitely is black people voting for obama because hes black and woman voting for Hillary because shes a woman. I don’t know how many but I would bet 10K that its pretty substantial.

I also think their are white men voting for mccain because hes a white man.

Think about the average level of intelligence we are dealing with in this country for a moment.
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Well, that’s certainly another point Chap, and not a bad one. Yes, many of these people, on all three sides, and in all three camps, are just quite simply, dummies. I can’t argue with that.
 
"Yes, many of these people, on all three sides, and in all three camps, are just quite simply, dummies"

Not to parse, but what is the difference between "many" and "much?" Couldn't I say, using your logic, that you just called all black Obama voters dummies?

Sorry - I know I'm being pissy.
 
blackascoal said:
It represents outrage based on false assumptions and only adds to the divide.

How do you accuse me of sexist anything?

How is that possible?
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I’m not accusing you of being a sexist, nor Onceler, I don’t believe that either of you are. However, I think that calling Care a whiner who should take her hissy fit and her marbles and go home, was unfortunate phrasing. I also think that very few men, of any color, or any ideaology have stopped and thought, or bothered to acknowledge what it would have meant to have a woman president. And I think that it’s time to stop beating the Hillary horse. No good can come from it. Let it go. She lost. Let’s show a little grace. We don’t have to reject her three times. She’s a politician, she pulled a few smelly moves, all of which will pale in comparison to the general, because the republicans do not have a liberal base they have to fear offending.
 
Darla said:
Desh I don’t give a shit what three old ladies in Las Vegas said about Hillary or about this race. If you want to do the Hillary pile on and help to make her the most reviled woman since Marie Antoinette, be my guest, but I won’t join and you better realize you are helping to ensure that we do not see a woman, any woman, come close to the Presidency in our lifetimes.
She lost. Try showing some fucking grace! That goes for all of you.
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Try two dozen.

I think you overestimate the power of Hillary.

Its not about her and that is the whole problem with her campaign.

She talks it and it shows.

She is the one whipping her followers into the frenzy of Obama hate.

Its her own damn fault.
 
Darla said:
Well, my black women friends, are like most of my friends, in the peace movement, and they chose Obama because of the war issue. So I can only speak to what they say about this. And they see plenty of sexism in this race, and in the peace movement even. I don’t claim to walk in ordinary circles. I don’t claim to be part of the mainstream. And I don’t claim to speak for black women, white women, Hillary supporters or Obama supporters. I can speak, with some knowledge, of women in the peace movement. And still then, I am not their spokeswoman. We can all speak for ourselves.

Frankly, I find Hillary’s domestic policies to be more to my liking. If it weren’t for the war votes…the very idea that many, many women couldn’t prefer Hillary on issues alone, is absurd.
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I don't disagree that many women support her on issues alone, but she wouldn't be my choice on issues and that is the argument we should be having. Not only on domestic issues, but her foreign policy isn't much different than that of Joe Lieberman. After all, they are brothers and sisters of the same cloth .. the DLC.

Clinton, both of them, are bought lock, stock, and barrel by corporations .. which is at the core of the 100+, who knows how much, millions of dollars.

There is a far more substanative debate on the issues than there is on race and gender.
 
For hillary I would like to play the song


How can I miss you when you wont go away- Dan Hicks and his hot licks
 
Desh said:
Try two dozen.

I think you overestimate the power of Hillary.

Its not about her and that is the whole problem with her campaign.

She talks it and it shows.

She is the one whipping her followers into the frenzy of Obama hate.

Its her own damn fault.
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In my own personal experience her supporters don’t hate Obama. My mom doesn’t hate obama and is going to vote for him. I think it’s obvious from Care’s posts that she doesn’t hate Obama. Maybe this whole hate obama thing is drummed up by paid republican operatives posting on the internet. They do exist you know, a report came out several years ago confirming that. I mean, who the hell knows, but I already said what I thought of Hillary. She pulled a few smelly moves, but she’s not the fucking devil! Nor should we be claiming that she is. You are going to see far worse yet. Far worse.
 
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