No, he said he would make up the $1.3 trillion shortfall from Medicare and Medicaid. The only way to do that is to cut benefits. Pointing that out is not lying.
That is all.
Edit: By the way, why all the name-calling? It's not necessary.
Obama camp trying to scare seniors... AGAIN...
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No, he said he would make up the $1.3 trillion shortfall from Medicare and Medicaid. The only way to do that is to cut benefits. Pointing that out is not lying.
That is all.
Edit: By the way, why all the name-calling? It's not necessary.
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The Almighty
"the McCain camp is ginning up a lynching for Obama, and you're upset because a guy who has voted to cut Medicare & who would logically have to in order to keep his promises is somehow being misrepresented....""
You really are a fucking moron. You implied above that I should not be "upset" about McCain being "mispresented" because "McCain was trying to get Obama lynched"
So the only liar between us is you. You are a total hack as well.
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The Almighty
No dipshit... he stated that he thought he could make up that shortfall by reducing waste in Medicare/Medicaid. He didn't state that if wrong he would cut benefits.
But I know, everyone else is wrong and your messiah is not a liar.
That is all.
You really ARE stupid. I said "somehow being misrepresented" after stating clearly why I think he is NOT being misrepresented. Kind of like saying "yet Bush is somehow a great President."
What a bonehead. How do you get your pants on?
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The Almighty
My god you are retarded. A clear sign you lost is when you resort to trying to spin Bush into the conversation.
You got caught in your own stupidity. Face it and move on.
No. You LIED, SF. You're not getting out of here until you admit that. I did not once say or imply that Obama was lying, yet that's what you said I said. That's a lie, to any intelligent person.
I brought up Bush because that is the most obvious example coming from me. Clearly, still not getting through to you, however. You LIED, Superfreak, as you always do.
Saying "I think I can make up the shortfall by reducing waste" is one of those statements that you have to look behind to see if it is true. Looking behind that statement at the actual budgets of the Medicare and Medicaid reveals that it is not true at all and cannot be accomplished.
McCain didn't state that if he was wrong he would find the savings elsewhere. In fact, he asserted quite clearly that the savings would come only from Medicare and Medicaid. So either (1) McCain is lying and the policy is not budget neutral or (2) Obama is right that he'll have to cut benefits.
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The Almighty
Actually you are the liar oh king of hacksters. You pretended that I shouldn't be worried about Obamas misrepresentations because McCain was trying to get him lynched. You tried to justify your stupidity by proclaiming that Obama was innocent despite factcheck, newsweek, CBS etc.... all stating that he was clearly misrepresenting McCains position.
That doesn't change the fact that in your great attempts at hackery, you tried to minimize the issue by tossing out the bullshit line of 'well gee golly, why we talkin about this when McCain is uh tryin to get Obama lynched'.
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The Almighty
Please show me where McCain says he will only get the savings from Medicare and Medicaid regardless of whether his cost savings would be enough.
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The Almighty
The only one lying is YOU. Oh king of hacks.
Not being able to admit that, when the words so glaringly contradict your own creative "paraphrase," is a sign of weak character. Sad....
Well, he said the $1.3 trillion would come from Medicare and Medicaid and offered no other source of funds to make the plan "budget neutral." As a result, I conclude that he plans to make the plan budget neutral by cutting $1.3 trillion from Medicare and Medicaid.
Please show me where he says that if the savings from Medicare and Medicaid are not enough he will come up the the shortfall on his "budget neutral" plan from some other source.
And again, please recall that this whole issue came up because the original proposal was to have payroll taxes apply to employer provided health insurance but that changed in August or so when people began to focus on his tax increase. In short, they're making it up as they go along and have no real answers.
But, rather than saying that, we get "Obama lied because Holtz-Eakin said so."
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The Almighty
So you continue to pretend you weren't trying to minimize the issue of Obamas misrepresentations by comparing it to your blatant LIE that McCain was trying to get Obama lynched?
Like you said... Sad
Hack
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The Almighty
AGAIN... he did not include any other source because HE THINKS he can get the entire amount out of cost savings. THAT is why he does not offer up other sources. It does not mean that if he is wrong that he will cut benefits. It means IF he is wrong he will have to make up the shortfall in some manner. As of this time, he has not put forth what he would do if that were the case.
Thus, stating that he would cut benefits blatantly false. He hasn't stated what he would do. Which is why it is a lie to pretend he has stated he will cut benefits.
As for the final paragraph, I agree that the first proposal seemed to include payroll taxes, although the McCain campaign later stated wasn't the case.
Bottom line... Obama did lie. He made up what he wanted McCains position to be and is promoting it as if it were fact. To deliberately misrepresent like that is a lie.
But he heart of the matter is that he is wrong. That's the whole fucking point. You cannot cut $1.3 trillion from Medicare and Meidcaid without cutting benefits. That's the whole fucking point: McCain is either lying about budget neutrality or lying about not cutting benefits.
Obama discussing the real world implications of McCain's plan as opposed to McCain's fairy tale about budget neutrality and cutting $1.3 trillion is not lying in any sense of the word.
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The Almighty
Again, you are ASSUMING that any remainder would come in the form of CUTS to benefits. THAT IS AN ASSUMPTION. To pretend that is in fact what McCain will do is a LIE.
I agree that he is not likely to get that much out of cleaning up waste. Which means he will have to either cut spending elsewhere to make up for the difference or he will have to as you suggest cut benefits.
Obama is clearly misrepresenting HOW McCain will pay for the assumed difference.
side note... while I do agree that McCain is likely wrong in getting $130b a year in savings, the estimates are all over the board, which means no one really "knows" how much he could trim in waste.
Obama is not discussing real world implications, he is creating a strawman... he is telling people what he THINKS McCains position is and then arguing against it. When in reality McCain has NOT proposed doing what Obama suggests.
Look, the total budget for Medicare and Medicaid in 2008 is around $600 billion. To pretend that you can cut 22% of the budget each year for 10 years without cutting benefits is absolute horseshit. Everyone knows that the claim to cut this much through reducing fraud (and then continuing to reduce fraud on a yearly basis by the same amount) is not true.
Also, I'm not assuming that any remainder would come from reducing benefits. I'm assuming McCain is telling the truth when he says his plan is revenue neutral and the savings will come from Medicare and Medicaid. In order to achieve the level of cuts McCain is proposing you have to cut benefits. It's that simple. This is the real world implication of what McCain is saying.
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The Almighty
Again, you are trying to spin what he stated into what YOU WANT him to be saying. Pretending that he is suggesting that if he can't get the savings out of waste etc.. that he will in turn cut benefits rather than use other funds. No where did McCain say that. Yet you continue to pretend it is the case.
You continue with the same line of crap over and over again. Unless you can show that McCain stated he would only use reduced waste or benefit cuts then you are simply making that shit up.